Our hope for the Future

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,854
3,275
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Historicism rejects Alcazar.

But futurism embraces Ribera.

Your father.
You can reject Jesuit Priest "Luis De Alcasar" all you want, Historicism is Preterist in its very foundations, and Alcasar is its father

You can repeat yourself 100 times, Historicism follows the Alcasar Preterist teachings

Daniel's AOD, The Great Tribulation, Armies Surrounding Jerusalem

Your throwing rocks in a glass house, reformed eschatology in preterism is wrong to its very foundations

Examples: Denial of a future AOD, Great Tribulation, Literal Human (Man Of Sin/The Beast), Literal (Two Witnesses) returned, "Deception"

I Agree with reformed eschatology in the fact there isn't a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth, but the rest of the reformed eschatology package is out in left field, way out there!

Jesus Is The Lord
 
Last edited:

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,592
1,873
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
You can reject Jesuit Priest "Luis De Alcasar" all you want, Historicism is Preterist in its very foundations, and Alcasar is its father

You can repeat yourself 100 times, Historicism follows the Alcasar Preterist teachings

Daniel's AOD, The Great Tribulation, Armies Surrounding Jerusalem
Historicism also rejects your claim that Christ is antichrist.
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,854
3,275
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Historicism rejects Alcazar.

But futurism embraces Ribera.

Your father.
Yes Ribera was an "Ahmillennialist", who believed Revelation 1-4 dealt with Ancient Roman times, with Chapters 5-22 being future surrounding a 3.5 year tribulation and the eternal Kingdom

Ribera is 100% correct in his interpretation, as you deny "Much" of the future literal seen in Revelation Chapters 5-20

Examples: Denial of a future AOD, Great Tribulation, Literal Human (Man Of Sin/The Beast), Literal Plagues in (Two Witnesses) returned, reformed "Deception"

Wikipedia: Francisco Ribera
The Dictionary of Premillennial Theology (1997) states that Ribera was an Augustinian amillennialist, whose form of futurism proposed that only the introductory chapters of Revelation referred to ancient Rome, and the remainder referred to a literal three and half years at the end of time.
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,854
3,275
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Historicism also rejects your claim that Christ is antichrist.
God's words below reject your claims that Jesus Christ is the "He" in Daniel 9:27 below, as Jesus Christ doesn't make Abomination and Desolation

Your claims the "He" seen was Jesus Christ using 70AD Roman soldiers is "Laughable" as you stumble about in desperate attempts trying to hold your false teaching together "Pride"!


"Daniel's AOD Is 100% Future" And Will Be Caused By A Living Human Man That Will Be Present On Earth Making Desolation Until The "Consummation" or "Ultimate End"

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2:
the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And
he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,592
1,873
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Yes Ribera was an "Ahmillennialist", who believed Revelation 1-4 dealt with Ancient Roman times, with Chapters 5-22 being future surrounding a 3.5 year tribulation and the eternal Kingdom

Ribera is 100% correct in his interpretation, as you deny "Much" of the future literal seen in Revelation Chapters 5-20

Examples: Denial of a future AOD, Great Tribulation, Literal Human (Man Of Sin/The Beast), Literal Plagues in (Two Witnesses) returned, reformed "Deception"

Wikipedia: Francisco Ribera
The Dictionary of Premillennial Theology (1997) states that Ribera was an Augustinian amillennialist, whose form of futurism proposed that only the introductory chapters of Revelation referred to ancient Rome, and the remainder referred to a literal three and half years at the end of time.
Ribera posited a futurized fantasized false Antichrist to attempt to sabotage the Reformation.

So do you.
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,592
1,873
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
God's words below reject your claims that Jesus Christ is the "He" in Daniel 9:27 below, as Jesus Christ doesn't make Abomination and Desolation

Your claims the "He" seen was Jesus Christ using 70AD Roman soldiers is "Laughable" as you stumble about in desperate attempts trying to hold your false teaching together "Pride"!


"Daniel's AOD Is 100% Future" And Will Be Caused By A Living Human Man That Will Be Present On Earth Making Desolation Until The "Consummation" or "Ultimate End"

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2:
the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And
he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Your claim is that Christ is antichrist.

That's heresy and blasphemy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spiritual Israelite

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,854
3,275
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ribera posited a futurized fantasized false Antichrist to attempt to sabotage the Reformation.

So do you.
Yes scripture clearly teaches of a "Future" human (Man Of Sin) that will be revealed prior to the Lord's second coming, and his destruction at this coming, something you and reformed preterist eschatology denies

God's words warn against your reformed preterist teachings that deny this future human man being revealed to the Church on this earth "Reader Beware"!

Reformed Preterist Eschatology teaching this represents the Catholic Church and the Pope's in sucession is a "LIE"!

"Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means"

"Future Events Unfulfilled"!


2 Thessalonians 2:1-10KJV
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,592
1,873
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Yes scripture clearly teaches of a "Future" human (Man Of Sin) that will be revealed prior to the Lord's second coming, and his destruction at this coming, something you and reformed preterist eschatology denies

God's words warn against your reformed preterist teachings that deny this future human man being revealed to the Church on this earth "Reader Beware"!

"Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means"

"Future Events Unfulfilled"!


2 Thessalonians 2:1-10KJV
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Ribera would have welcomed you into the apostate papacy with open arms.
 

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,211
936
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Jesus said that time would be shortened so what was in Daniel is now shorter, and sure enough in Rev we see 42 months not 84 months. It's been cut in half.
The 3 1/2 years, 42 months and 1260 days in Revelation. ALL refer to the second half of the final 7 years. As per Daniel 9:27.
This truth is plain to all and to make it to be something else, is error.
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,854
3,275
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ribera would have welcomed you into the apostate papacy with open arms.
Same would be said for your reformed preterist father in Jesuit Catholic "Luis De Alcasar"

Yes there will be a "Future" human man that will fulfill Paul's (Man Of Sin) and John's (The Beast) reformed eschatology concerning this is a "Lie"!

Yes scripture clearly teaches of a "Future" human (Man Of Sin) that will be revealed prior to the Lord's second coming, and his destruction at this coming, something you and reformed preterist eschatology denies

God's words warn against your reformed preterist teachings that deny this future human man being revealed to the Church on this earth "Reader Beware"!

Reformed Preterist Eschatology teaching this represents the Catholic Church and the Pope's in sucession is a "LIE"!

"Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means"

"Future Events Unfulfilled"!


2 Thessalonians 2:1-10KJV
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,854
3,275
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ribera would have welcomed you into the apostate papacy with open arms.
Yes your reformed preterist eschatology denies the "Future" human man seen below

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,592
1,873
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Same would be said for your reformed preterist father in Jesuit Catholic "Luis De Alcasar"

Yes there will be a "Future" human man that will fulfill Paul's (Man Of Sin) and John's (The Beast) reformed eschatology concerning this is a "Lie"!

Yes scripture clearly teaches of a "Future" human (Man Of Sin) that will be revealed prior to the Lord's second coming, and his destruction at this coming, something you and reformed preterist eschatology denies

God's words warn against your reformed preterist teachings that deny this future human man being revealed to the Church on this earth "Reader Beware"!

Reformed Preterist Eschatology teaching this represents the Catholic Church and the Pope's in sucession is a "LIE"!

"Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means"

"Future Events Unfulfilled"!


2 Thessalonians 2:1-10KJV
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
When do you plan to stop blaspheming?
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,592
1,873
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Your claims of Blasphemy are "False", its your reformed preterist eschatology that's the "Lie"

Jesus Is The Lord
Claiming that Christ is antichrist is immeasurably worse than a lie.

It is blasphemy.
 
Last edited:

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
6,030
1,230
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The 3 1/2 years, 42 months and 1260 days in Revelation. ALL refer to the second half of the final 7 years. As per Daniel 9:27.


There is only one 42 month/1260 day GT in Rev. It is the shortened version of the original 7 year trib from Daniel. There is no such thing as a final half of 7 years as there isn't a first half. It's just 42 months as given in Rev 13.