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Our Young Earth

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by eternalarcadia, Jun 8, 2008.

  1. Alistein

    Alistein New Member

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    http://www.kjvbible.org/very good research
    Read this not all though but it's generally thesame old thing that is said by OEC. Perhaps if you read some of the OP's links you would find pretty much every one of the points countered and refuted.
    The earth is millions of years old the Bible even says so
    this is nothing more than an assumption on your part since you can't prove the age from the bible. What if scientist say they have discovered the earth is 300billion years old will you use thesame words used to support 3.7billion years again.
    2 Pet 3:5-7 "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."
    I believe this is alluding to Noah's flood. Consider that peter says they willingly are ignorant meaning they chose to be ignorant of their own accord then this must have been knowledge easily accessible to all during that time for them to choose to reject it and such knowledge could only come from the old testament that mentions only one flood if Genesis 1:2 was indicated it would have been very confusing.How does this not parallel to the flood but Gen 1:2 there aren't enough facts or evidences to reject one and assume the other here.
    The above passage is not a reference to Noah's flood so where else is the world flooded completely? Well Genesis 1:2 of course.
    How do you arrive at that there is no where in the bible that says there was a world flooded before Gen1:2 does not record a flood it simply says the 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Gen 1:2 is a creation account not a disaster account it certainly doesn't have any strong evidence to suggest it could be applied as a warning which peter was doing but Noah's flood works perfectly as a warning.
    Exodus 20:9-11"For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them."Even your own quote contradicts your stance.There is a difference between "made" and "create" I can make a sandwich out of bread, cheese and meat. The fact that I put those things together is the act of making a sandwich. I did not create the sandwich because those ingredients were already there. God made the earth in 6 days because the ingredients were already there because he created the earth in Genesis 1:1.The act of creating is taking nothing and creating it into something. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."big difference. The 7 days is a regeneration process of the earth that was a desolate, ruined place. The fact is a earth millions or even billions of years old does not contradict the Bible/God and the creation story. In fact God hints at these facts himself throughout the Bible. Just because the earth is old does not mean that evolution exists either. Read that website your mind will change when your done.
    You're right God did create Heaven and earth in Gen 1:1 in other words He created matter, He brought fought what was needed for creation or the making of the earth, in my opinion I call it laying the foundation the next verse tells you how this matter looked it never said there was war or anything but says the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.It doesn't even mention the heaven here just the earth.This illustrates how God built the earth by laying a foundation and then step by step building not just poof and it's there(Alpha and Omega;52106)
    And I do believe that I never said that evolution exists quite the contrary in fact. Can you explain why an earth millions of years old contradicts the Bible?
    Imagine if you never heard anyone scientist e.t.c give you an age for the world what would then decide your believe on the age of the world. One thing is clear you would never come to the idea of a world billions or millions of years old because it is no where in the bible even the scriptures used by old earth creationist does not give an exact age or even an idea all it ever says is something like old which in no way gives us an idea of any number.Old earth believe is in no doubt rooted in evolution. The difference is the starting points oec start from outside the Word of God using things like record of nature and yec start from the literal interpretation of the bible. I have heard atleast 2 debates from both groups with AIG debating with Reasons to believe and I believe the YEC had more valid points. Infact I'd advise you to find out what constitutes an OEC view which involves things like the bigbang e.t.cAlso in my opinion it undermines God's power to say it took Him so long to create there are scientists now that believe they have been able to create Universes in labs, the size of this un iverses being as small as a bacteria and you can guess what they said" it will take billions of years for this new universes they've created to grow into one like ours thus they are saying they have achieved what God did. This is obviously a lie and they simply added billions of years to cover their folly knowing no one would be alive to ridicule them then.
     
  2. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

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    (Wakka;52118)
    It's to the flood.
    How can it be though?"and the earth standing out of the water and in the water"picture this...the earth is flooded completely not just here on the spherical earth but also in space. Hence the "in the water". The earth is in the water also. How? Noahs flood did not cause this..so it must be a reference to Genesis 1:2 there is no other choice common sense. Now how can the earth be "in the water"? well Stars give off huge amounts of water when they die. This must have happened because the earth is "in the water" I had a link but cannot find it so you'll just have to be patient here. So our sun died and gave off huge amounts of water that is how we get "in the water"Alisteinyour right that "and" continues a thought. look at that verse more closely....Genesis 1:2"And the earth was (or had become) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."The earth had become without form. This implies that the earth was already inhabited with animals. Like Dinosaurs or whatever you wish to imagine (does not really matter).Furthermore, before any reconstruction of the heavens and Earth could begin, God had to do something with all that water scattered across space (Genesis 1:2). That is why the Bible says the waters were divided (Genesis 1:6-7). It was the first order of business after the Lord God turned on the work lights (Genesis 1:3) and began to clear up the mess: "And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so." (Genesis 1:7 KJV)The bottom line interpretation of the Genesis narrative is this: Those seven days of Genesis were, indeed, seven literal 24 hour days, but they are not a description of the original creation of all things (Genesis 1:1) but a Divine special regeneration of the cosmos from what was here before the present world of Man. In other words, there are two creation events in Genesis. The first is described in a one-sentence statement at Genesis 1:1 and the second was accomplished in 7 days and very detailed, beginning at Genesis 1:3. This is why the Bible at Genesis 2:4 says: "These are the generations [plural] of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens," (Genesis 2:4 KJV)
     
  3. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

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    (Alistein;52146)
    Read this not all though but it's generally thesame old thing that is said by OEC. Perhaps if you read some of the OP's links you would find pretty much every one of the points countered and refuted. this is nothing more than an assumption on your part since you can't prove the age from the bible. What if scientist say they have discovered the earth is 300billion years old will you use the same words used to support 3.7billion years again.
    Look it really does not matter if the earth is 300 billion years old or 100 million or 10 million. The fact is it is a lot older then 6 000.(Alistein;52146)
    2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Gen 1:2 is a creation account not a disaster account it certainly doesn't have any strong evidence to suggest it could be applied as a warning which peter was doing but Noah's flood works perfectly as a warning.
    Genesis 1:2 is absolutely not a creation account. Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.Vain - tohuw 1) formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptinessa) formlessness (of primeval earth)1) nothingness, empty space[​IMG] that which is empty or unreal (of idols) (fig)c) wasteland, wilderness (of solitary places)d) place of chaose) vanityGod did not create this world in vain this is what you are saying when you say it is a creation account because...Genesis 1:2"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."without form - tohuw 1) formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptinessa) formlessness (of primeval earth)1) nothingness, empty space[​IMG] that which is empty or unreal (of idols) (fig)c) wasteland, wilderness (of solitary places)d) place of chaose) vanityGods work was not in vain and this verse (genesis 1:2) is an observation. God is observing this desolate place after some kind of catastrophe that wiped out life in the previous world. This previous world just for clarification had no Human beings on it just so people do not get confused.
     
  4. Wakka

    Wakka Super Member

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    (Alpha and Omega;52148)
    How can it be though?"and the earth standing out of the water and in the water"picture this...the earth is flooded completely not just here on the spherical earth but also in space. Hence the "in the water". The earth is in the water also. How? Noahs flood did not cause this..so it must be a reference to Genesis 1:2 there is no other choice common sense. Now how can the earth be "in the water"? well Stars give off huge amounts of water when they die. This must have happened because the earth is "in the water" I had a link but cannot find it so you'll just have to be patient here. So our sun died and gave off huge amounts of water that is how we get "in the water"Alisteinyour right that "and" continues a thought. look at that verse more closely....Genesis 1:2"And the earth was (or had become) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."The earth had become without form. This implies that the earth was already inhabited with animals. Like Dinosaurs or whatever you wish to imagine (does not really matter).Furthermore, before any reconstruction of the heavens and Earth could begin, God had to do something with all that water scattered across space (Genesis 1:2). That is why the Bible says the waters were divided (Genesis 1:6-7). It was the first order of business after the Lord God turned on the work lights (Genesis 1:3) and began to clear up the mess: "And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so." (Genesis 1:7 KJV)The bottom line interpretation of the Genesis narrative is this: Those seven days of Genesis were, indeed, seven literal 24 hour days, but they are not a description of the original creation of all things (Genesis 1:1) but a Divine special regeneration of the cosmos from what was here before the present world of Man. In other words, there are two creation events in Genesis. The first is described in a one-sentence statement at Genesis 1:1 and the second was accomplished in 7 days and very detailed, beginning at Genesis 1:3. This is why the Bible at Genesis 2:4 says: "These are the generations [plural] of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens," (Genesis 2:4 KJV)
    If water completely covered the earth, wouldn't earth be in water? Also, if water is ever in space, it would be a sphere, am I correct?The earth was void. It haden't become void.
     
  5. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

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    *to the original post...*I also agree 100%. There are endless reasons not to believe the earth is millions of years old, and that the earth is in fact young. So many reasons, that if a person isn't already able to just believe God's Word simply when He says something... it is enough to substantiate it. Six literal days, and a "young" earth, just as He tells us. [​IMG]
     
  6. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

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    (FoC;52054)
    Im not sure that I agree with every point of the evidence presented in the OP, but I am a YEC.The bible does not show that the earth is millions of years oldThe Hebrew word for 'day' can mean long ages unless it is further defined by the surrounding context....'an evening and a morning' is that context.Especially when a 'day' is very clearly defined in Genesis itself.
    And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. (Gen 1:3-5 KJV)​
    We have a planet called earth and we have a source of light.We have a dark side of this planet earth and a light side, separated by God into 'day' and Night'All that is needed now for an evening and a morning is rotation.An evening and a morning show fairly conclusively that we are talking about a single earth rotation day.There was a man named Adam made on the 6th day of creation.This mans genealogy can be show all the way up to Christ in the scriptures, even with many of the lifespans given in exact years.Scripture does not support that the earth has been here for even millions of years, let alone billions.
    Agreed. I was watching some bologne (not the food, but the type of statement :p) on discovery the other day.It talked about how Darwin's theory *required* an old earth, and that in the day, most didn't believe the earth to be over some number of thousands of years old (which is true). Somehow, niagra falls is evidence of an old earth, for which they offered no proof. They just stated it matter of fact and went on. It was annoying, but it is what it is.Niagra falls is actually, if anything, just a waterfall. But, if anything, it is evidence of a young earth because the earth is young and that is what science supports. I have heard though, that if you take the errosion of the land that Niagra Falls is causing (it moves back so much every year as the water fall knocks more and more land off of it's edge), it is impossible for the world to be millions of years old at that rate.Plus, when taking into the accoutn of the age of the Earth... one must take into consideration that the Earth was completely and totally flooded by water, and that the fountains of the deep burst open.
    "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights." (Gen 7:11-12 KJV)​
    It was not merely rain that flooded the Earth... actually, the vast majority of flooding was not caused by rain. It was caused by the fountains of the deep breaking open. We have massive fault lines on the earth where this easily could have happened from, stretching across the ocean floor. We also have to consider the water canopy no longer being in existance, and its effects on Earth, and our perception of time (decay, lifespan, and endless numbers of other things effected by this change).Even if we don't have the endless evidences for a young Earth (which we do), we should believe it and teach it because it is what God's Word teaches... and unlike Darwin's theory... we do not require an old Earth for what we know to be true.The dates "scientists" (and I do mean people with degrees who don't know what they are talking about) give are completely off base and unscientific, because they willfully forget the flood, and consider it of no importance. Most men and women with degrees simply believe what they are told, and build off of that... like a person climbing a ladder. No real evidence is given and no real research is made to substantiate their beliefs, and like we believe God's Word in the Bible, the world takes the Word of the University (capitolized like God), as Gospel. It is strong delusion.When you neglect God's Word, you get things wrong. That's just the way it is.
     
  7. Alistein

    Alistein New Member

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    (Alpha and Omega;52151)
    Look it really does not matter if the earth is 300 billion years old or 100 million or 10 million. The fact is it is a lot older then 6 000.
    That is not a fact supported by scriptures in fact how do you know it is more than 6000 years old? The scriptures you use again does not indicate age and neither does the links you gave the age that you have given comes from outside the bible from men. if you can show from the scriptures that old refers to more than a million or billion years then please do so.
    Genesis 1:2 is absolutely not a creation account. Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.Vain - tohuw 1) formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptinessa) formlessness (of primeval earth)1) nothingness, empty space[​IMG] that which is empty or unreal (of idols) (fig)c) wasteland, wilderness (of solitary places)d) place of chaose) vanityGod did not create this world in vain this is what you are saying when you say it is a creation account because...
    I am clearly not saying so please don't add or make conclusions for me which I have not come to.Genesis 1:2
    "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."without form - tohuw 1) formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptinessa) formlessness (of primeval earth)1) nothingness, empty space[​IMG] that which is empty or unreal (of idols) (fig)c) wasteland, wilderness (of solitary places)d) place of chaose) vanityGods work was not in vain and this verse (genesis 1:2) is an observation. God is observing this desolate place after some kind of catastrophe that wiped out life in the previous world. This previous world just for clarification had no Human beings on it just so people do not get confused.
    I would like you to check a bible site and check Gen1:2 in every bible version you can find you will notice they all go with the first choice "formless" and any Hebrew scholar or Rabbi would tell you that it is so in the Torah there is no bible that I have seen that takes chaos as an option could it be because it isn't the right word. There is also no detailed record of any catastrophe and if you belies there was chaos and the earth was flooded why is it so hard to believe Noah's flood was global also why would God do a partial recreation. This I said because if He recreated the world from destruction then why would He leave dead things buried under the earth and then say that it is good also do you know the fossil records of dinosaurs showed that some had cancer and other kind of diseases which would mean way before Adam and eve came on the surface there was death and disease in the world and suffering and that the world couldn't have been good. So then what did God mean by good in Genesis 1 wouldn't you be afraid of Him if He said something bad was good. Finally if there was a catastrophic event it should have been mentioned in some degree if you're writing about a rebuilding process of a ruined place like the twin towers for example you would mention something that would alert the reader of how there's been a tranformation from ruins to a place worth seeing.
     
  8. Alistein

    Alistein New Member

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    "And the earth was (or had become) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."The earth had become without form. This implies that the earth was already inhabited with animals. Like Dinosaurs or whatever you wish to imagine (does not really matter).
    Consider some of the following translationsThe Message bible) Gen1:1-2First this: God created the Heavens and Earth—all you see, all you don't see. Earth was a soup of nothingness, a bottomless emptiness, an inky blackness. God's Spirit brooded like a bird above the watery abyss.The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[a] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.There is nothing like the word "become" in any of the versions the earth did not become dark void or chaotic in anyway it was just how God made it. the word "was" does not in any way change to "become". As soon as God creates he let's you know what He created and the state it was in. The creation was the foundation what followed was the building.Hebrews 1:10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
     
  9. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

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    (treeoflife;52182)
    It was not merely rain that flooded the Earth... actually, the vast majority of flooding was not caused by rain. It was caused by the fountains of the deep breaking open. We have massive fault lines on the earth where this easily could have happened from, stretching across the ocean floor. We also have to consider the water canopy no longer being in existance, and its effects on Earth, and our perception of time (decay, lifespan, and endless numbers of other things effected by this change).Even if we don't have the endless evidences for a young Earth (which we do), we should believe it and teach it because it is what God's Word teaches... and unlike Darwin's theory... we do not require an old Earth for what we know to be true.
    What is the canopy theory? I think I know but want clarification please. Also how thick was this canopy?God's word does not teach that the earth is young. God's word teaches simply that MAN is young around 6000 years old that is all. The Earth's geological history (which, by the way, God also authored), tells us that this planet is very old. Therefore, there MUST be a Biblical explanation that confirms this observation and provides a Biblical reason why these things are so. And the Ruin-Reconstruction interpretation does exactly that. The Bible gives no specific time when God first created the heaven and the Earth (Genesis 1:1), but it does give the time when the Earth is found in this desolate condition and for the start of the seven, literal, 24 hour days. That time was, indeed, geologically very recently. In this respect, only, is the Young Earth Creationist fully correct. This is the context for the "gap" on which Ruin-Reconstruction doctrine is based. Exactly how long that time gap represents nobody can say for sure, but it most certainly could accommodate hundreds of millions of years, or less, but a gap is most certainly there.(Alistein;52190)
    That is not a fact supported by scriptures in fact how do you know it is more than 6000 years old? The scriptures you use again does not indicate age and neither does the links you gave the age that you have given comes from outside the bible from men. if you can show from the scriptures that old refers to more than a million or billion years then please do so.
    The problem here is I have taken the geological record and said it is millions of years old. The funny thing is that most people think that the geological record contradicts the Bible but it absolutely does not. See people have put this evil vale on science because if there is an old earth there is evolution. But that is not true at all. Science is good it has given us many things and only contradicts the Bible when it is used incorrectly. (Alistein;52190)
    There is also no detailed record of any catastrophe and if you belies there was chaos and the earth was flooded why is it so hard to believe Noah's flood was global also why would God do a partial recreation.
    Actually about 12, 000 years ago there was an ice age so drastic that the oceans froze. Now what could have caused such a thing??? No sun perhaps.I never said I did not believe in Noah's flood and never said that he did a partial re-creation. He re-created the earth because it was "without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."(Alistein;52190)
    This I said because if He recreated the world from destruction then why would He leave dead things buried under the earth and then say that it is good also do you know the fossil records of dinosaurs showed that some had cancer and other kind of diseases which would mean way before Adam and eve came on the surface there was death and disease in the world and suffering and that the world couldn't have been good. So then what did God mean by good in Genesis 1 wouldn't you be afraid of Him if He said something bad was good.
    God does not mention that "it is good" in Genesis 1:1. He did not create from destruction, the ingredients were already there because he created them long ago. He simply repaired everything. Furthermore, your right that death was already there on the earth before Adam and Eve. Eve was not the original sin Satan was the original sin that is why there is so much death in the geological record. consider this....In Genesis 1:2 all of these things are present..1.) the Earth, 2.) waters, 3.) the "deep," and 4.) darknessNow God said in Genesis 1:1 that he created the heaven and earth....not heaven(s). As we know there are 3 heavens. He did not originally create 3 just 1. Darkness is already present because Satan had already sinned against God. Genesis 1:2 describes the CONDITION of the Earth at a point in time AFTER the "heaven and earth" were first created. Genesis 1:3 is the beginning of a seven day restoration process. More precisely, it was the Divine work of making a new GENERATION of the "heavens and earth":Genesis 2:4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,And after seeing that all these things are already present, can we realistically be expected to accept the Young Earth Creationist's argument? Are we to believe that God went "poof" and made the planet Earth, outer space, time, and lots of water, all at the very beginning of the very first day, without a single sentence outlining this complex work? Especially since God then only says, "let there be light" and calls it a day? That seems somewhat out of character in light of the fact that God then spends another five full working days afterward on just the surface features with the Bible fully documenting the work in great detail. Did Moses sleep through that part of the lecture? I don't think so.The only common sense, logical, and truly Biblical conclusion that these things collectively tell us is that the seven days of Genesis were a reconstruction from the ruins of what was already there. It was a new "generation" of all things. The Word makes a statement of fact on the Earth's ruined condition, and then proceeds to tell us how God regenerated all things. That is the simplicity and truth of the narrative. Man has been guilty of reading his own understanding into the meaning of Genesis, instead of just taking God at His word.
     
  10. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

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    (Alistein;52190)
    I am clearly not saying so please don't add or make conclusions for me which I have not come to.Genesis 1:2
    you certainly implied it.Isaiah 45:18 tells us that the Lord God did NOT originally create the Earth in such a desolate condition. The word "vain" in Isaiah 45:18 and the term "without form" in Genesis 1:2 are from the same Hebrew word (tohuw). Genesis 1:2 compared with Isaiah 45:18 rules out God initially making the Earth as a formless mud ball, then turning on the work lights and starting the decorating process.
     
  11. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

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    (Wakka;52166)
    If water completely covered the earth, wouldn't earth be in water? Also, if water is ever in space, it would be a sphere, am I correct?The earth was void. It haden't become void.
    and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:Why are the words out and in used? Shouldn't one of them be sufficient if describing Noah's flood? Noah's flood had no effect on space/sun. It only had a local (earth) effect. Furthermore why would God need to separate these waters?Genesis 1:6-8And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.1) midst, middlea) midst, middle[​IMG] into, through (after verbs of motion)c) among (of a number of persons)d) between (of things arranged by twos)e) from among (as to take or separate etc)This heaven by the way is the 2nd heaven our atmosphere.Notice something important here? Why does God not say "it was good"? Because of the desolate condition of the earth this was necessary thing to do before he could start decorating the earth.OK, but God did not create the earth in vain so it must have become void.
     
  12. FoC

    FoC New Member

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    God's word does not teach that the earth is young
    Its really funny that you make this claim, because Gods word DOES show that the earth HAS to be quite young when taken 'as written' [​IMG]
    Old earth contradicts the ScripturesAssertions/Conclusions of this ArticleThis article is just to briefly cover a point or two from Gods word to show that old earth theory is contradictory to the bibles account 'as written'.This article is making no claims about interpretation of 'scientific' evidence, but solely about the wording of Genesis in Gods accountSupporting EvidenceThe bible does not show that the earth is millions of years oldThe Hebrew word for 'day' can mean long ages unless it is further defined by the surrounding context....'an evening and a morning' is that context.Especially when a 'day' is very clearly defined in Genesis itself.
    And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.And the evening and the morning were the first day.(Gen 1:3-5 KJV)
    We have a planet called earth and we have a source of light.We have a dark side of this planet earth and a light side, separated by God into 'day' and Night'All that is needed now for an evening and a morning is rotation.An evening and a morning show fairly conclusively that we are talking about a single earth rotation day.There was a man named Adam made on the 6th day of creation.This mans genealogy can be show all the way up to Christ in the scriptures, even with many of the lifespans given in exact years.Scripture does not support that the earth has been here for even millions of years, let alone billions.
     
  13. FoC

    FoC New Member

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    And lets play the game that the earth WAS actually around before and was REmade.You STILL have the issue of God creating Adam on the 6TH day of the creation week, which shows that the scriptures absolutely do not agree with Evolution Theory and is millions of years of evolution.Unless scripture is lying and Adam WASNT the very first man, then scripture absolutely cannot be reconciled with these theories.The lifespans of a great many of those men is given very precisely from Adam thru quite a few generations.
     
  14. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    So you guys are ignoring scriptures and calling me (and difinately Kriss) liars by saying we're twisting scriptures. Ya'll are stuck in a mind where ya'll think that everywhere in the bible that 1 day is always a 24 hour day...seems like you guys want to avoid II Peter 3:8.God even says that he destroyed the past age (First Earth Age) Jeremiah 4:22-27...
     
  15. Wakka

    Wakka Super Member

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    So you guys are ignoring scriptures and calling me (and difinately Kriss) liars by saying we're twisting scriptures. Ya'll are stuck in a mind where ya'll think that everywhere in the bible that 1 day is always a 24 hour day...seems like you guys want to avoid II Peter 3:8.God even says that he destroyed the past age (First Earth Age) Jeremiah 4:22-27...
    Don't forget the rest of it Jag.Jeremiah 4:27-31For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. 28For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it. 29The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein. 30And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life. 31For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.It's not talking about a pre-adamite earth age jag. It's talking about God's power, and that He did create the heavens and the earth from nothing. That He did destroy man during the flood except for the few (Noah and the ark). And it's also saying that the Lord will punish zion for being unfaithful. It's a power display.II Peter 3:8 is a metaphor so that people could get a glimpse of eternity. God is metaphysical, time does not affect Him. In fact, there is no time where God is at. That is why God is eternal, and why He always lasted and will always last.
     
  16. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Don't forget the rest of it Jag.Jeremiah 4:27-31For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. 28For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it. 29The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein. 30And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life. 31For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.It's not talking about a pre-adamite earth age jag. It's talking about God's power, and that He did create the heavens and the earth from nothing. That He did destroy man during the flood except for the few (Noah and the ark). And it's also saying that the Lord will punish zion for being unfaithful. It's a power display.II Peter 3:8 is a metaphor so that people could get a glimpse of eternity. God is metaphysical, time does not affect Him. In fact, there is no time where God is at. That is why God is eternal, and why He always lasted and will always last.
    Wow, now that's sad... Jeremiah 4:22-31 is placed between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 it doesn't even go near Genesis 1:3.This destruction (flood) is not even near Genesis 6, Genesis 7, and Genesis 8. This destruction is not even talking about Noah's Ark...
     
  17. Wakka

    Wakka Super Member

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    Wow, now that's sad... Jeremiah 4:22-31 is placed between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 it doesn't even go near Genesis 1:3.This destruction (flood) is not even near Genesis 6, Genesis 7, and Genesis 8. This destruction is not even talking about Noah's Ark...
    Jeremiah is not specifically placed in Genesis 1. Jeremiah is talking about God's almighty power, it includes the created, the flood, and the punishment of Israel. You would know that if you take the whole chapter in account. You can't just pick and choose parts you like.
     
  18. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Ok let's do GenesisJust the first few verses for this studyGenesis is the first book of the Bible, and was written by Moses. In Hebrew it is called "the Book of the Beginnings", however in the Greek Genesis is called "the Book of the Generations, and Creation." The book of Genesis and the book of Revelation have much more in common than most people think. The book of Genesis is a record of the beginning of this earth age, while the book of Revelation is a record of prophecy as to the end, or destruction of this flesh earth age. Genesis records Satan's first rebellion, and Revelation records Satan's last rebellion. Then in Genesis we find where sin enters into the world in this earth age, and Revelation reveals it's final doom at the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.The Book of Genesis is a key to understanding the rest of the Scriptures. When Jesus talks about the planting of the seed, and the offspring of that seed [children]; we will see in Genesis the meaning of this and find out just what Jesus was teaching us through His parables. In fact we will see in Matthew 13:35 where Jesus is teaching in parables the secrets of the prophets of the Old Testament. They were secrets hidden and not understood by mankind from the foundation of the world [Kosmos; in the Greek}.The name "Genesis" is not even a Hebrew word, but a Greek rendition out of the Septuagint, which is part of the Torah. The original Hebrew name of this book was "The Beginnings".Those that stand and use this Word of God as the basis for placing the age of the earth at 6000 years, just don't understand the original Hebrew text. It is easy to document that this earth is many millions of years old. However, the traces of Adamic man only can be traced to about that 6000 year period of time. Now lets go the the Scriptures and document some of these statements.Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."There are two bodies mentioned in this verse; the heaven and the earth. It simply stated a fact and left the time factor out. The verse not only did not say when, but left it totally to our imagination, as to the eternal span of time, and how the creation took place.In Proverbs 8:22 we read of wisdom speaking through Solomon. Wisdom is God for all wisdom is of God. "The Lord possessed me in the beginning of His ways, before the works of old." What works of old could this be? It is the old earth age, spoken of in Revelation 12:1-6. Proverbs 8:23; "I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was." This is stating that wisdom was with God, and He possessed me.Proverbs 8:24; "When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water." Before there was any need of an abyss, or pit, and the water to fill them, God's wisdom was there.Proverbs 8:25; "Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:" Before the earth even took on it's present form, with the high mountains and rolling hills, God's wisdom was there. Friend, God's wisdom played His part in the creation of this earth, and all wisdom comes from God.Proverbs 8:26; "While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the high part [beginning] of the dust of the world." God was there in wisdom before that first little atom, or speck of dust of the earth was formed. Before the laws of God that control the energy forces came into being, God's wisdom was there. Proverbs 8:27; "When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass [circle] upon the face of the depth:"Proverbs 8:28; "And when established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:"Proverbs 8:29; "When He gave to the sea His decree, that the waters should not pass His commandment: when He appointed the fountains of the earth:"In other words, there was land, and oceans, and fields and lakes, and God set His commandment that they should be separated through the "compass" which He set. Today we call it "gravity". This is the force which separates all water from dry land. When the waves hit the rocks of the shoreline, they resend back into the sea by the gravitational forces of the earth. God allowed Job to be tested by both Satan and his fellow man, in the first thirty seven chapters of the Book of Job. However, after 37 chapters of man's nonsense, ramblings, and bad advice by those around Job, God spoke to Job. Job 38:1, 2; "Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?"Job had been tested to the point of losing His entire family, all his property, and had been inflicted by sores and sickness, yet, he did not curse God. He was in a poor frame of mind when God again came to Job. Job 38:3; Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou Me." God told Job to straighten up and be a man, and listen to what He is about to tell Job. Then God spells out to Job how He laid out the foundations of the earth and the heaven, and all matters concerning them. Then for the rest of Job 38 and continuing in Job 39 we can see the same wisdom we read about in Proverbs 8. God told Job how He put the universe all together. Our God is infinite in wisdom and power, Yet His love for His children is so great that He allowed Himself to be killed as a man, on the cross at Calvary. In this love that He demonstrated for His children, He made it possible that we could approach Him as His child for our every need.This humbled Job before God, as it should to each of us, and He fell apart [Job 40]. God once again told Job to stand "like a man, and give answer to HimGenesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."Who is that Spirit of God? He is the Holy Spirit, and it is God's Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters. In the Hebrew translation of the word, "was", as used in this verse "...the earth was without form,..."; in the original text it reads "became without form...". This same mistranslation of the word "became", and turning it into the word "was" is also present in Genesis 2:7. It should read there; "..and man became a living soul." The correct Hebrew translation from the Massoretic Hebrew text for the words, "without form" is "tohu-va bohu" in the Hebrew Strong's dictionary. So we see that the earth was not "created without form", but it "became [tohu] without form and void". Lets go to Strong's Hebrew dictionary, reference number 1961 to verify the word "was", that we read in this verse. "Yahah, haw-yaw; a prime root, to exit; to become, or come to pass." [#1961] Now lets continue in the Strong's Hebrew dictionary to get the true meaning for the word "void". # 2258, on page 36 tells us that we have to go to # 2254 for the prime on the meaning of this word "void". # 2254; "Chabal, khaw-bal; to wind tightly as a rope, to bind, to pervert, destroy, to corrupt, spoil, travail," This corresponds with its other use in # 2255, which reads; "to ruin"."Tohu" of the earth, then means that total destruction had come to pass upon the earth. The second "was" in the verse is in italics type because there is no verb "to be" in the Hebrew language. One of the problems in translating the Hebrew into English is that the verb, "to be" is not distinguished from the verb, "to become".At the end of Genesis 1:1 the first earth age ceased to exist in its previous form. God created the earth to be inhabited, and then He destroyed it. There was an entire earth age that existed between verses one and two of Genesis. This first earth age is spoken of in II Peter, Jeremiah, Proverbs, and Jude. We will look into these Scripture passages and try to understand the deeper meaning of our Father's Word.If you don't understand that there was a first earth age, you will not understand why God would say in Malachi 1:3; "And I hated Esau...". God hated Esau even while he was in his mother's womb. It was in the first earth age that God hated Esau, because of what Esau did in that first earth age. It was what Esau's soul did in that age that so angered God; and that anger passed on to the embryo of Esau, when his soul entered into this earth age. See also Romans 9:13.This verse, then, does verify the fact that our earth is older than 6,000 years old. To be more exact, it's probably many millions of years old. However, no matter how old this earth is, it is the only place we can live on in the flesh and survive. We do not worship God's creation; we are to worship the creator, our Heavenly Father. God is in control of all of His creation, and He destroyed all forms of life that lived on the earth from the first earth age.In Isaiah 45:18; "For thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the Lord; and there is none else."This is God speaking as Isaiah is writing it down, and He is telling us that when He created the earth, it was not in vain. "Vain" is the same Hebrew word that we saw in Genesis 1:2, which was given as "void". God created this earth to be lived on, and to be inhabited. Genesis 1:1 told us that God created the earth to be inhabited. The "Tohu", the "destruction", was not part of the creation plan of verse one, but came after the fall of Satan when one third of all the souls followed Satan in the first earth age, in verse two. We find more documentation concerning the first earth age in II Peter 3. In fact we can read of all three earth ages, as Peter becomes a witness to the fact.II Peter 3:5; "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"The earth came about by "the word of God", God's speech. Some ministers preach that this was Noah's flood, well let's see.II Peter 3:6; "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"Perished means total destruction. "The world [age] that then was" ended in total ruin through another flood that was prior to Noah's day. There were no survivors of that flood; no animals, no man, no insects, nor vegetation survived in any form. Everything perished! We know in Noah's flood that two of all life forms were saved. When you drive out on the highway today, and look at the road cutaways, you can see the layers that the ages and time have formed over the eons of years. You say this earth is 6000 years? Even a child should know better than that. II Peter 3:7; "But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are dept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."This is the second heaven and earth age which we are living in now. This earth age will not be destroyed until God's time of judgment on the ungodly men of this earth age comes to a close. that time of perdition [destruction] is after the millennium, and after the judgment. Then will come the consuming fire. Hebrews 12:19 tells us that our God is that consuming fire. II Peter 3:8; "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."One week is 7000 years, and we are coming to the Sabbath of that week very shortly, which the common name for the next thousand years is "the Millennium age". The Millennium age is the thousand years after Jesus Christ returns to earth at the seventh trumpet to establish his kingdom here on earth. All souls at that time will not be in the flesh bodies, but in another dimension. They will exist in their incorruptible bodies, spoken of in I Corinthians 15:50-54.II Peter 3:9; "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." That means that you can count on our Heavenly Father concerning His promises. God has much patience concerning His children. It isn't God's will that any soul should perish. God did not even intend for Satan to perish, as stated in Ezekiel 28, but that doesn't mean God will not bring about the perishing of souls; for it is up to the soul to choose. That is what our free will is all about. II Peter 3:10; "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.""A thief in the night" is an figure of speech meaning that Christ will come at an unexpected time. This sounds like a scary time, but what does it say in in the original text, being translated to English? The "elements" are all the "rudiments"; that is the evil spirits, all evil men are part of those rudiments, as well as all forms of idolatry. They will all burn at their appointed time. These elements are not the elements that go to make up the physical properties of this earth. This is addressed only to those things that offend our Heavenly Father. So we have witnessed in II Peter 3 that there are three earth ages, and three heaven ages that correspond with the earth age periods of time. We see also in Jeremiah 4 that there is another witness to the fact of these three earth ages.Jeremiah 4:22; "For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge."How many people really know God's Word? There are very few that can quote you anything from the Bible, except those parts that can give them personal gain. The translators were kind to use the word "sottish", for the word means just plain "stupid", or "silly". The nature of mankind today is to "make a buck any way that you can". Their minds are evil constantly, as they were in the days of Noah. However, in the ways of goodness, and doing right, there is a void. Jeremiah 4:23; "I beheld the earth, and, lo it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light."Here we get back to the same word that we saw earlier in Genesis 1:2; The Hebrew word "Tohu" for "void". In other words, God is saying, "I destroyed the first heaven and earth age." There simply was no life form existing on this earth at the close of the first earth age in any form.Jeremiah 4:24; "I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly."This is why the magnetic north is 90 miles off true north? God shook the earth and everything moved from its foundations at the time the destruction "tohu" took place.Jeremiah 4:25; "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled."Did you get that? No man, no animals, and not even the birds were left alive. The earth was covered with water, and life could not exist. There was no boat floating around on the surface, for the span of time could have been for thousands of years, or a much greater time. Jeremiah 4:26; "I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger."In this flood there wasn't a tree or a blade of grass left with life in it. However, what about these "cities" that once existed? Yes there were cities at that time, and God's anger and fury against Satan, and the third of God's children that followed Satan, caused God to destroy that entire earth age, and all that was part of it.That is what God meant in Hebrews 11:7 when He said, "I shook her once and know I'll shake her again." The only thing that will be left standing then, is that which is unshakeable, and it will only be those who have repented, and have Jesus Christ in their heart. They are those souls that were sealed in their minds, and did not bow to the Antichrist, his system, or take his name, nor his number.Jeremiah 4:27; "For thus hath the Lord said, "The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end." God allowed the waters of the first earth age to recede, and from it came a condition whereby we can live in this second earth age. Each soul, or God's child, will pass through this flesh earth age once, and we have the choice to chose either light or darkness; Jesus Christ or Satan. When God created each soul and gave it free will, He cannot force that soul to love Him. You cannot buy love, or it will be a false love. God is looking for your tender love; from within your free soul. It is your choice. So we have documented from the Bible that there was an earth age prior to this earth age we now live in. God created that first earth age in good standing to be inhabited, as it was written in Isaiah 45:18; then after this it became "without form and void" [in the Hebrew, "Tohu va bohu"].Why? Because Satan brought sin into the world of that first earth age. and that sin was so great that one third of all God's children followed Satan, and that sin brought God's anger upon the whole world. It was then that Satan was sentenced to the death of his soul. This is why Satan is called the "son of perdition" in II Thessalonians 2:3, and John 17:12. Satan refused to repent, as God allowed him the time to get right with Him.Verse three starts after the first earth age, after the overthrow by Satan [The Chabal], and after the total destruction of the first earth age and all life forms on itWill continue next post
     
  19. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Ok let's do GenesisJust the first few verses for this studyGenesis is the first book of the Bible, and was written by Moses. In Hebrew it is called "the Book of the Beginnings", however in the Greek Genesis is called "the Book of the Generations, and Creation." The book of Genesis and the book of Revelation have much more in common than most people think. The book of Genesis is a record of the beginning of this earth age, while the book of Revelation is a record of prophecy as to the end, or destruction of this flesh earth age. Genesis records Satan's first rebellion, and Revelation records Satan's last rebellion. Then in Genesis we find where sin enters into the world in this earth age, and Revelation reveals it's final doom at the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.The Book of Genesis is a key to understanding the rest of the Scriptures. When Jesus talks about the planting of the seed, and the offspring of that seed [children]; we will see in Genesis the meaning of this and find out just what Jesus was teaching us through His parables. In fact we will see in Matthew 13:35 where Jesus is teaching in parables the secrets of the prophets of the Old Testament. They were secrets hidden and not understood by mankind from the foundation of the world [Kosmos; in the Greek}.The name "Genesis" is not even a Hebrew word, but a Greek rendition out of the Septuagint, which is part of the Torah. The original Hebrew name of this book was "The Beginnings".Those that stand and use this Word of God as the basis for placing the age of the earth at 6000 years, just don't understand the original Hebrew text. It is easy to document that this earth is many millions of years old. However, the traces of Adamic man only can be traced to about that 6000 year period of time. Now lets go the the Scriptures and document some of these statements.Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."There are two bodies mentioned in this verse; the heaven and the earth. It simply stated a fact and left the time factor out. The verse not only did not say when, but left it totally to our imagination, as to the eternal span of time, and how the creation took place.In Proverbs 8:22 we read of wisdom speaking through Solomon. Wisdom is God for all wisdom is of God. "The Lord possessed me in the beginning of His ways, before the works of old." What works of old could this be? It is the old earth age, spoken of in Revelation 12:1-6. Proverbs 8:23; "I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was." This is stating that wisdom was with God, and He possessed me.Proverbs 8:24; "When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water." Before there was any need of an abyss, or pit, and the water to fill them, God's wisdom was there.Proverbs 8:25; "Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:" Before the earth even took on it's present form, with the high mountains and rolling hills, God's wisdom was there. Friend, God's wisdom played His part in the creation of this earth, and all wisdom comes from God.Proverbs 8:26; "While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the high part [beginning] of the dust of the world." God was there in wisdom before that first little atom, or speck of dust of the earth was formed. Before the laws of God that control the energy forces came into being, God's wisdom was there. Proverbs 8:27; "When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass [circle] upon the face of the depth:"Proverbs 8:28; "And when established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:"Proverbs 8:29; "When He gave to the sea His decree, that the waters should not pass His commandment: when He appointed the fountains of the earth:"In other words, there was land, and oceans, and fields and lakes, and God set His commandment that they should be separated through the "compass" which He set. Today we call it "gravity". This is the force which separates all water from dry land. When the waves hit the rocks of the shoreline, they resend back into the sea by the gravitational forces of the earth. God allowed Job to be tested by both Satan and his fellow man, in the first thirty seven chapters of the Book of Job. However, after 37 chapters of man's nonsense, ramblings, and bad advice by those around Job, God spoke to Job. Job 38:1, 2; "Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?"Job had been tested to the point of losing His entire family, all his property, and had been inflicted by sores and sickness, yet, he did not curse God. He was in a poor frame of mind when God again came to Job. Job 38:3; Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou Me." God told Job to straighten up and be a man, and listen to what He is about to tell Job. Then God spells out to Job how He laid out the foundations of the earth and the heaven, and all matters concerning them. Then for the rest of Job 38 and continuing in Job 39 we can see the same wisdom we read about in Proverbs 8. God told Job how He put the universe all together. Our God is infinite in wisdom and power, Yet His love for His children is so great that He allowed Himself to be killed as a man, on the cross at Calvary. In this love that He demonstrated for His children, He made it possible that we could approach Him as His child for our every need.This humbled Job before God, as it should to each of us, and He fell apart [Job 40]. God once again told Job to stand "like a man, and give answer to HimGenesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."Who is that Spirit of God? He is the Holy Spirit, and it is God's Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters. In the Hebrew translation of the word, "was", as used in this verse "...the earth was without form,..."; in the original text it reads "became without form...". This same mistranslation of the word "became", and turning it into the word "was" is also present in Genesis 2:7. It should read there; "..and man became a living soul." The correct Hebrew translation from the Massoretic Hebrew text for the words, "without form" is "tohu-va bohu" in the Hebrew Strong's dictionary. So we see that the earth was not "created without form", but it "became [tohu] without form and void". Lets go to Strong's Hebrew dictionary, reference number 1961 to verify the word "was", that we read in this verse. "Yahah, haw-yaw; a prime root, to exit; to become, or come to pass." [#1961] Now lets continue in the Strong's Hebrew dictionary to get the true meaning for the word "void". # 2258, on page 36 tells us that we have to go to # 2254 for the prime on the meaning of this word "void". # 2254; "Chabal, khaw-bal; to wind tightly as a rope, to bind, to pervert, destroy, to corrupt, spoil, travail," This corresponds with its other use in # 2255, which reads; "to ruin"."Tohu" of the earth, then means that total destruction had come to pass upon the earth. The second "was" in the verse is in italics type because there is no verb "to be" in the Hebrew language. One of the problems in translating the Hebrew into English is that the verb, "to be" is not distinguished from the verb, "to become".At the end of Genesis 1:1 the first earth age ceased to exist in its previous form. God created the earth to be inhabited, and then He destroyed it. There was an entire earth age that existed between verses one and two of Genesis. This first earth age is spoken of in II Peter, Jeremiah, Proverbs, and Jude. We will look into these Scripture passages and try to understand the deeper meaning of our Father's Word.If you don't understand that there was a first earth age, you will not understand why God would say in Malachi 1:3; "And I hated Esau...". God hated Esau even while he was in his mother's womb. It was in the first earth age that God hated Esau, because of what Esau did in that first earth age. It was what Esau's soul did in that age that so angered God; and that anger passed on to the embryo of Esau, when his soul entered into this earth age. See also Romans 9:13.This verse, then, does verify the fact that our earth is older than 6,000 years old. To be more exact, it's probably many millions of years old. However, no matter how old this earth is, it is the only place we can live on in the flesh and survive. We do not worship God's creation; we are to worship the creator, our Heavenly Father. God is in control of all of His creation, and He destroyed all forms of life that lived on the earth from the first earth age.In Isaiah 45:18; "For thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the Lord; and there is none else."This is God speaking as Isaiah is writing it down, and He is telling us that when He created the earth, it was not in vain. "Vain" is the same Hebrew word that we saw in Genesis 1:2, which was given as "void". God created this earth to be lived on, and to be inhabited. Genesis 1:1 told us that God created the earth to be inhabited. The "Tohu", the "destruction", was not part of the creation plan of verse one, but came after the fall of Satan when one third of all the souls followed Satan in the first earth age, in verse two. We find more documentation concerning the first earth age in II Peter 3. In fact we can read of all three earth ages, as Peter becomes a witness to the fact.II Peter 3:5; "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"The earth came about by "the word of God", God's speech. Some ministers preach that this was Noah's flood, well let's see.II Peter 3:6; "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"Perished means total destruction. "The world [age] that then was" ended in total ruin through another flood that was prior to Noah's day. There were no survivors of that flood; no animals, no man, no insects, nor vegetation survived in any form. Everything perished! We know in Noah's flood that two of all life forms were saved. When you drive out on the highway today, and look at the road cutaways, you can see the layers that the ages and time have formed over the eons of years. You say this earth is 6000 years? Even a child should know better than that. II Peter 3:7; "But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are dept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."This is the second heaven and earth age which we are living in now. This earth age will not be destroyed until God's time of judgment on the ungodly men of this earth age comes to a close. that time of perdition [destruction] is after the millennium, and after the judgment. Then will come the consuming fire. Hebrews 12:19 tells us that our God is that consuming fire. II Peter 3:8; "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."One week is 7000 years, and we are coming to the Sabbath of that week very shortly, which the common name for the next thousand years is "the Millennium age". The Millennium age is the thousand years after Jesus Christ returns to earth at the seventh trumpet to establish his kingdom here on earth. All souls at that time will not be in the flesh bodies, but in another dimension. They will exist in their incorruptible bodies, spoken of in I Corinthians 15:50-54.II Peter 3:9; "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." That means that you can count on our Heavenly Father concerning His promises. God has much patience concerning His children. It isn't God's will that any soul should perish. God did not even intend for Satan to perish, as stated in Ezekiel 28, but that doesn't mean God will not bring about the perishing of souls; for it is up to the soul to choose. That is what our free will is all about. II Peter 3:10; "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.""A thief in the night" is an figure of speech meaning that Christ will come at an unexpected time. This sounds like a scary time, but what does it say in in the original text, being translated to English? The "elements" are all the "rudiments"; that is the evil spirits, all evil men are part of those rudiments, as well as all forms of idolatry. They will all burn at their appointed time. These elements are not the elements that go to make up the physical properties of this earth. This is addressed only to those things that offend our Heavenly Father. So we have witnessed in II Peter 3 that there are three earth ages, and three heaven ages that correspond with the earth age periods of time. We see also in Jeremiah 4 that there is another witness to the fact of these three earth ages.Jeremiah 4:22; "For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge."How many people really know God's Word? There are very few that can quote you anything from the Bible, except those parts that can give them personal gain. The translators were kind to use the word "sottish", for the word means just plain "stupid", or "silly". The nature of mankind today is to "make a buck any way that you can". Their minds are evil constantly, as they were in the days of Noah. However, in the ways of goodness, and doing right, there is a void. Jeremiah 4:23; "I beheld the earth, and, lo it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light."Here we get back to the same word that we saw earlier in Genesis 1:2; The Hebrew word "Tohu" for "void". In other words, God is saying, "I destroyed the first heaven and earth age." There simply was no life form existing on this earth at the close of the first earth age in any form.Jeremiah 4:24; "I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly."This is why the magnetic north is 90 miles off true north? God shook the earth and everything moved from its foundations at the time the destruction "tohu" took place.Jeremiah 4:25; "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled."Did you get that? No man, no animals, and not even the birds were left alive. The earth was covered with water, and life could not exist. There was no boat floating around on the surface, for the span of time could have been for thousands of years, or a much greater time. Jeremiah 4:26; "I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger."In this flood there wasn't a tree or a blade of grass left with life in it. However, what about these "cities" that once existed? Yes there were cities at that time, and God's anger and fury against Satan, and the third of God's children that followed Satan, caused God to destroy that entire earth age, and all that was part of it.That is what God meant in Hebrews 11:7 when He said, "I shook her once and know I'll shake her again." The only thing that will be left standing then, is that which is unshakeable, and it will only be those who have repented, and have Jesus Christ in their heart. They are those souls that were sealed in their minds, and did not bow to the Antichrist, his system, or take his name, nor his number.Jeremiah 4:27; "For thus hath the Lord said, "The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end." God allowed the waters of the first earth age to recede, and from it came a condition whereby we can live in this second earth age. Each soul, or God's child, will pass through this flesh earth age once, and we have the choice to chose either light or darkness; Jesus Christ or Satan. When God created each soul and gave it free will, He cannot force that soul to love Him. You cannot buy love, or it will be a false love. God is looking for your tender love; from within your free soul. It is your choice. So we have documented from the Bible that there was an earth age prior to this earth age we now live in. God created that first earth age in good standing to be inhabited, as it was written in Isaiah 45:18; then after this it became "without form and void" [in the Hebrew, "Tohu va bohu"].Why? Because Satan brought sin into the world of that first earth age. and that sin was so great that one third of all God's children followed Satan, and that sin brought God's anger upon the whole world. It was then that Satan was sentenced to the death of his soul. This is why Satan is called the "son of perdition" in II Thessalonians 2:3, and John 17:12. Satan refused to repent, as God allowed him the time to get right with Him.Verse three starts after the first earth age, after the overthrow by Satan [The Chabal], and after the total destruction of the first earth age and all life forms on itGenesis 1:3 "And God said, "let there be light:" and there was light."Almost every verse involving this creation story of Genesis one starts with the words; "And God said.". However in the Hebrew text it says; "And the Magnificent Lord God Almighty". The original text gives God the full Spirit movement, and the most respect possible for our Almighty Father God. This verse is still in the first day when the light came into being.Genesis 1:4 "And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness."Genesis 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."It will be on into another day that the sun, and moon, and stars were created. What does it mean then when God said, "Let there be light"? When the Holy Spirit of God, the "Ruach" in the Hebrew, moved upon the face of the earth; there is light, for He [the Holy Spirit] is light. Without the Holy Spirit there is total darkness, so the Holy Spirit of God, on the first day started His work.Within the first chapter of Genesis God reveals His entire plan of God. Verses three through five are NOT dealing with the sun and moon, for they come later. But it is dealing with the presence of the Holy Spirit of God that is to be present throughout this earth age. That "Ruach" or Spirit is the first, and most important part of the creation, for without The Holy Spirit there is only darkness. This is also the start of God's plan, which includes you and I, and all of God's children. The choice is choosing between the "Light", which is the Spirit of God", and darkness. Ezekiel 28:12-19 declares Satan, "the King of Tyrus", to be that darkness in the world. Then if your choice be darkness, verse 18 declares your destination after judgment: "I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth..."All prophecies in the entire Bible that refer to God's elect, or the children of God; those that happen to be in God's will, are called "children of light". This also applies to prophecies that are given in days, or solar years. [see Daniel 12:11]In turn, all prophecies dealing with Satan, his wickedness, and his children are given in months, or moons. Satan's children, then are called the "children of darkness", or "of the night". [see Revelation 13:4, 5] Satan is the darkness that is the negative part of God's plan. Satan was here from the beginning of this earth age, and God allowed it.Christ was also here, for he is the "Tree of Life". We will read of this later in the second and third chapters of Genesis. When God refers to trees in symbolism, they are persons.Genesis 1:6 "And God said, "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."The "firmament" is an "expansion, or space".Genesis 1:7 "And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so."Genesis 1:8 "And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."Are we talking about dimensions here? What does the word "heaven" mean here? In the Hebrew test it is the "high and lofty", or "the upper place". So on the second day the Spirit of God moved the waters, and divided the waters. He placed a space, or firmament in between these two bodies of water, and kept one of the bodies of water on the earth, with the other body of water above the space, or in the heavens. The waters below existed as the oceans today exist. In the book," Waters Above", the author demonstrates how it is possible to have oceans of water in suspension above the earth, if the earth were in a perfect orbital spin. Though this condition does not exist today, it did at one time; as was proven by scientist in "the Wisconsin Theory". This study proved the polarity of the earth changed, by their observation of the crystallization of iron particles in ancient lava flow. To show how objects can be set stationary in the heavens, in modern day technology that most nations of the earth use today, we have satellites set in space orbit for communication. This process is so common, even third world countries have their own satellites. These physical masses use the gravity pull of the earth, balanced with an equal centripetal force that would throw the satellite out into space; to suspend these objects into a stationary place [orbit] with respect to the earth.The book, "Waters Above" gave the theory of how it was done, and when the Voyager II space craft passed by the planet "Uranus"; we saw it in reality. How the separation of two bodies of water by God [not clouds], placed one body of water on the earth, and the other floating, suspended above the earth, with a space [firmament] in-between.Genesis 1:9 "And God said, "Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear:" and it was so."In Noah's flood it took months for the waters to settle, however on this third day of creation God spoke it, and it happened. This is the first day that "dry land" appeared on earth in this earth age. In the eternal earth age there will be no seas or oceans as in this earth age.Genesis 1:10 "And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called He Seas: and God saw that it was good."There was nothing chaotic here, but everything was done in order. With the protection from the sun's rays by the "water above", and the dew to water the earth below; things were pretty good.Genesis 1:11 "And God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth:" and it was so."Genesis 1:12 "And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good."Genesis 1:13 "And the evening and the morning were the third day."The heavens, and the water separation came about on the second day, and now it wasn't until the third day that "dry land appeared". There is simply no room for evolution in the creation of the heavens and earth, as we see and witness it in this earth age. Everything that exists, whether creating, making, acting, moving, and speaking are ascribed to the Living God. There is absolutely no area that can be rendered to chance, without a flat denial of Divine Revelation. Man assumes he started from nothing, and progressed to where he is today through evolution, which is a process of changes that take place through chance. This principle takes place only in human affairs: developing from a hut to a modern building; from a canoe to an ocean liner; from the spade or stick developing into the tractor, and so on. However, birds still build their nests today as they did 6000 years ago. The moment we pass the boundary line, and enter the "Divine sphere", no trace or vestige of evolution is seen. There is growth and development within each "kind", but no passing, change, or evolution out of one kind, and entering into another kind. The evolutionist demonstrates his evolution as a chain of processes and changes, all interacting within each other. However, in actuality, all he has is a bag of individual chain lengths which cannot be demonstrated today as ever taken place, even once. There simply is no connecting of one "kind" of creature specimen to another "kind" of creature. In fact scientists have conducted many DNA tests to prove insects a common parentage between a number of kinds of insects. However, they proved that there was no way that these different kinds of insects could have ever come from common parentage. It is interesting how the scientific world hushed this fact up, as they are now trying to prove the reliability of this new scientific tool, called DNA.. The "Learning Channel" ran a documentary on this particular set of DNA testing in eerily 1995, and the results of those tests, and pointed out the conflict between the tests, and the evolution theory. Each part, or form of the "theory on evolution" is only invented to explain a partial area of the phenomena of created things. The Word of God, we will see, claims to cover all the ground through Divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God. Man uses the term "higher critic", to give authority to those using human assumptions and reasoning; instead of using sound documentation of physical evidence, and manuscripts of the Word of God. The chaos that came after the first age is being rejuvenated into a new order of things [life]. The grass, herbs, trees, and other vegetation kind is brought back to carry on as it did in the first age; from it's own seed. Everything after it's kind.Genesis 1:14 "And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" and it was so."The moon and the sun are both given for signs, for planting and to control tides, seasons, and the weather. We dig for clams by the position of the moon, as well as the planting of potatoes. However, there is another separating taking place, and that is the separation of day from night, and light from darkness. Here in the fourth day, and we now have a moon, sun, stars, and all the other heavenly bodies of the universe. It is in the fourth day that the earth has a constant orbit around the sun, which sets the season, and gives us a uniform standard, which we call time. Now we have a standard day, which is divided into years, months, days, hours, minutes and seconds. The other part of the universe which most of the world follows closely today, are the signs of the zodiac. These signs of the zodiac are comprised of twelve major star groupings, called constellations. These star groupings form a belt which circles the sky on a plane which follows the earth's orbit around the sun. These twelve signs of the zodiac are part of a universal language of Astronomical science. It is well known that from the earliest man, his ancient astronomical charts will allow modern astronomers to pinpoint to the year, the time of charting.David wrote about this in Psalm 19:1-4; "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth His handiwork. [verse 1] Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. [verse 2] There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. [verse 3] There line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. [verse 4]Genesis 1:14 "And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth:" and it was so."As we look up in a dark clear night, God's handiwork comes alive. The billions of twinkling stars cover the entire sky as a blanket.Genesis 1:15 "And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth:" and it was so."Genesis 1:16 "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: He made the stars also."Genesis 1:17 "And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,"Genesis 1:18 "And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good."Genesis 1:19 "And the evening and the morning were the forth day."Number "four" in biblical numerics stands for earth. Everything about the earth is divided into four; the four quarters, the four seasons, the four points of the compass, and on and on.Genesis 1:20 "And God said, "Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."Lets take a closer look at the word "Live", for in the Hebrew text that word reads "Nephesh", which is "soul" in the English. The word "naphesh", though it means soul, is not always used as we think of soul within mankind, for there are twelve classifications of the word "naphesh".The classification form used in this sixteenth verse is the first and lowest form applied to life, and is directed only to the very lowest animal forms. Though "nephesh" is used 754 times in the Hebrew Old Testament, it is used in the lower case form [to lower animals] only twenty two times. It is applied to the "soul of man" 472 times. So we see that on this fifth day of the creation, the first life formed were in the seas, and oceans; Then came the birds of the air. God gave each of these creatures, from the tiniest single cell life form, to the whale, their "naphesh" [Life]. In each kind of life formed, God gave the ability to do all the functions within the limits of that kind, and no more. Genesis 1:21 "And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good."Evolution just doesn't fit into the order of creation. When God created every living thing to reproduce "after their kind", it eliminates the mutations through chance over a long period of time, and that is required in acceptance of their own evolution theories. Genesis 1:22 "And God blessed them saying, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth."Genesis 1:23 "And the evening and the morning were the fifth day."Sorry it was long,hoped it helped
     
  20. jtartar

    jtartar New Member

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    (Alpha and Omega;52100)
    Genesis 1:1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.God creates heaven and earth the first timeGenesis 1:2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."2 Peter 3:5-7For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.2 Peter is a reference to Genesis 1:2 not Noah's flood. For there are two instances where the world is flooded. And if 2 Peter 3:5-7 is a cross-reference to Genesis 1:2, then the Holy Spirit is calling your attention to something very significant that millions of 'Young Earth' Creationists are blindly overlooking. Specifically, that a glorious ancient world that God created in the distant past (Genesis 1:1), had long since been utterly destroyed, plunged into deep darkness, and overflowed by a raging flood of great waters on a universal scale at the time of Genesis 1:2.Compare the phrase "the heavens and earth, which are now" to the phrase the "heavens were of old":When Noah's flood happened did it change anything in the upper heavens? Would a flood on the Earth have any effect on the sun, moon, or stars? The obvious answer is NO. The heavens of Noah's days were the same heavens as in Adam's day; same sun, same moon, same stars. FACT: Noah's flood had no effect on the upper heavens. All of Noah's flood's effects were confined to the Earth's surface and atmosphere. And although the Bible speaks about the "windows of heaven" being opened and water coming down (Genesis 7:11), the context of that reference is the "first" heaven of the Earth's atmosphere. That is where rain comes from. (Keep in mind: The Bible says there are three (3) heavens. See 2 Corinthians 12:2).Again, note the contrasting comparison between the phrases the "heavens were of old" (before the waters of 2 Peter 3:5-7) and the "heavens and earth which are now" (after the waters of 2 Peter 3:5-7). If Noah's flood did not alter the upper heavens, then this verse must be speaking about an event other than Noah's flood. And Genesis 1:2 is our only other Biblical candidate.Honestly this site http://www.kjvbible.org/ describes it perfectly. In short this is what you will learn if you choose to read it....The earth is oldGod created the earth than re-created it in the 7-day re-creation event. Man is young and started with Adam indeed.There is no evolutionThe Pre-Adamite World and Ancient Origins of Satan, a.k.a. Lucifermy favoriteA "Virtual Debate" With "Dr. Dino" and Young Earth Creationism
    Alpha & Omega, May I give you something to think about? The Bible actually gives no indication of the age of the earth. The earth can be very old or young and it does not disagree with what the Bible says. There is a term called Gap Theory. This is the theory of how many years there were between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2. It could be millions, or billions or even trillions and it would not disagree with what the Bible says. At Gen 1:1, God CREATED the heaven and the earth. Notice this happened, In the Beginning. According to Hebrew this scripture should day, In A beginning. Why?? Because this was the beginning of God's creating matter, visible things. God had already created Angels, with the FIRST of God's creation being His Only Begotten Son, who is called, by us Jesus,Col 1:15, Rev 3:14. After God created Jesus He then used Jesus as His master worker in the creation of everything else, Prov 8:22-31. When God started to prepare the earth for mankind the angels shouted in applause, Job 38:7. Many of the angels may have been in existence billions of years before God created man. Gen 1:1 is the announcement of the creation of the heavens and the earth. Other scriptures speak about making things, but only God is Omnific. Gen 1:2 is speaking about the time that God began preparing the earth for man. Since God is totally unconcerned with time, there is not a logical reason to believe that God created the heavens and then speeded up the travel of light in the universe so as to make things appear older than they are. Since science has determined that some stars are billions of lightyears away from earth, and that light has reached us, it is logical to believe that the heavens are billions of years old. There are terms called DOCTRINAIREISM and FIDEISM, and also DOGMATISM. These terms explain why some people unreasoninglt hold to beliefs that have been proven untrue, because THEY BELIEVE the Bible says something it really does not say. The Bible and true science agrees completely. The trouble lies in the fact that people do not understand exactly what the Bible says.
     
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