Outer Darkness: a possible destiny for the saved

[Episkopos]

OK so there is no video for the OP. But there is an amazing amount of denial of plain scripture regarding the eternal destiny of being sent away into eternal darkness for those who are saved. As we know, there are 4 eternal destinies described repeatedly. Of course the prevailing religious opinion is that the saved will play harps on clouds and other such sunday school notions.

But the real need to fear the Lord has been obliterated in order to fill the pews. The gospel has been "defanged" as it were, to cause a whole lot of false assurance. And people love that. If you tell people the truth, they will turn away.

So let's look at what the bible clearly teaches concerning the eternal destiny of being cast into outer darkness.

Let's begin with Jude, the brother of Jesus...

Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withers, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Let's take just the first verse and break it down...



Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.


Interestingly, one of the eternal destinies recorded in Rev 22:11 as the words of Jesus claim , is "the filthy". This is a category for those who invent for themselves a lofty end whereby they parade themselves with no fear, and speak evil of those who are ahead of them and warn them.

 

[Episkopos]

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Here is another description of the behaviour and attitude of them that will be rejected by God into outer darkness. People who claim anything good sounding they read in the bible. Paul describes being seated in heavenly place in Christ....so these will claim to also be seated in Christ by a mere imagination to that effect. They will claim nice sounding verses for themselves while ignoring all the warnings and exhortations. And they will heap abuse on anyone who tries getting them to see things more realistically.

So people will speak evil of anything that upsets their smugness. And they will assume that nobody could possibly know more than they know...which is nothing.

So the gospel is corrupted this way by the flesh. People, rather than go through the front door of approval from God, climb in every which way and pretend to belong.

 

[Episkopos]

Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

The modern church is full of Cains. Unless the doctrines that are taught promise life to every person, there arise jealousies and rivalries. So the organizers of the church forbid ANY distinction between saints and believers....between those who are spiritual and those who are not...in order to "keep the peace" and not wake up the spirit of Cain that comprises maybe half the church.

Mercenary pastors charge money to keep the people interested in the bible and some aspects of God...all based on a career in religion.

And the rebellious attitude of Korah was that they were of the opinion that they were just as spiritual as the ones whom God has established as His ministers. So there is a kind of pirate rule among these whereby the pride of every man must be taken into account.

 

[Episkopos]

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withers, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

There can be no doubt that these filthy dreamers are among us. They have no fear of God at all....because they have been told by pulpiteers that there is nothing to fear. Following any wind of doctrine that suits them, they make grandiose statements without any evidence at all....based entirely on religious hubris.



Twice dead....??? It means they were regenerated into an initial grace and had experienced a sample of what grace provided...they were headed for life...but were spoiled through vain philosophy and preferred readings of the bible. Their potential was eradicated because they didn't receive the truth with humility, so they went after lies and deceit.

 

[Jay Ross]

Outer darkness a possible destiny for the saved.

This outcome of the Second Death is only for those who have turned away from and/or rejected God's Salavation for them.

 

[Episkopos]

Outer darkness a possible destiny for the saved.

This outcome of the Second Death is only for those who have turned away from and/or rejected God's Salavation for them.

If that's the case why do are they at the love feasts? Why are they tossed by every wind of doctrine. It's a ploy to make every case of rejection due to a conscious decision to fall away.

 

[Jay Ross]

If that's the case why do are they at the love feasts? Why are they tossed by every wind of doctrine. It's a ploy to make every case of rejection due to a conscious decision to fall away.

It is a conscious decision that we make when we sin. Becoming a candidate for the second death because we sin against God or simply turn away from Him is an automatic consequence which is based upon our choices against God and His love for us.

 

[Episkopos]

It is a conscious decision that we make when we sin. Becoming a candidate for the second death because we sin against God or simply turn away from Him is an automatic consequence which is based upon our choices against God and His love for us.

The text says twice dead...meaning the person was regenerated and is now either asleep or dead spiritually based on a departure, not in the mind, but in the heart.

 

[shepherdsword]

The scary thing is that the unprofitable servant WAS actually a servant of the King and also feared. Hard to pass that off as an unbeliever.

 

[ScottA]

OK so there is no video for the OP. But there is an amazing amount of denial of plain scripture regarding the eternal destiny of being sent away into eternal darkness for those who are saved. As we know, there are 4 eternal destinies described repeatedly. Of course the prevailing religious opinion is that the saved will play harps on clouds and other such sunday school notions.

But the real need to fear the Lord has been obliterated in order to fill the pews. The gospel has been "defanged" as it were, to cause a whole lot of false assurance. And people love that. If you tell people the truth, they will turn away.

So let's look at what the bible clearly teaches concerning the eternal destiny of being cast into outer darkness.

Let's begin with Jude, the brother of Jesus...

Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withers, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Let's take just the first verse and break it down...



Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.


Interestingly, one of the eternal destinies recorded in Rev 22:11 as the words of Jesus claim , is "the filthy". This is a category for those who invent for themselves a lofty end whereby they parade themselves with no fear, and speak evil of those who are ahead of them and warn them.

Why are you associating that passage with "the saved", when the passage speaks not of the saved, but of "brute beasts" "twice dead?"

"Brute beasts" refers to the "natural" man, and "twice dead" to those dead in both body and spirit, dead before the foundation of the world, and dead after also, not having been saved.

 

[Titus]

I'm in the Indianapolis airport waiting to board the plane.
1. At the airport.
2. Boarding the plane.
3. Taking off in the plane. My departure from the airport was at 1:00pm

Question: If I never went to the Indianapolis airport.
Could I depart from the Indianapolis airport?

Hebrews 3:12,
- take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God

These believers in Hebrews 3:12, are warned not to loose faith.
If they do so their evil heart can cause them to  depart from God.

Galatians 4:8-9,
- Howbeit then when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods
- but Now after that ye have known God or rather are known of God how turn ye again to the weak and beggerly elements whereunto ye desire to be in  bondage

It is possible to know God and God to know you if you are saved.
It is also possible for the saved to depart from God and go back into the bondage of sin.

It is impossible to depart from God if you have never been added to Him.
It is also impossible to know God if He has never known you.

Matthew 7:21-23,
- ...and then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work inquity

Can the previous saved believers who knew God yet they departed from God because of their evil heart of unbelief still be saved?
Only if they repent before death, 1John 1:8-9.
If they stay in their unbelief...

2Thessalonians 1:7-8,
- and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
- in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ

Revelation 2:10,
- fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer, behold the devil shall cast some of you into prison
that ye may be tried and ye shall have tribulation ten days be thou faithful unto death and I will give thee a crown of life

Must: stay faithfull, that means continue believing the gospel and obeying the gospel.
Yes, the saved can loose their eternal reward.

Revelation 2:5,
- remember therefore from whence thou art fallen(Galatians 5:4) and repent and do the first works or else I will come unto thee quickly and remove thy candlestick out of his place except thou repent(1John 1:8-9)

 

[Episkopos]

"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." 1 Cor 9:27

 

[ScottA]

I'm in the Indianapolis airport waiting to board the plane.
1. At the airport.
2. Boarding the plane.
3. Taking off in the plane. My departure from the airport was at 1:00pm

Question: If I never went to the Indianapolis airport.
Could I depart from the Indianapolis airport?

Hebrews 3:12,
- take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God

These believers in Hebrews 3:12, are warned not to loose faith.
If they do so their evil heart can cause them to  depart from God.

Galatians 4:8-9,
- Howbeit then when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods
- but Now after that ye have known God or rather are known of God how turn ye again to the weak and beggerly elements whereunto ye desire to be in  bondage

It is possible to know God and God to know you if you are saved.
It is also possible for the saved to depart from God and go back into the bondage of sin.

It is impossible to depart from God if you have never been added to Him.
It is also impossible to know God if He has never known you.

Matthew 7:21-23,
- ...and then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work inquity

Can the previous saved believers who knew God yet they departed from God because of their evil heart of unbelief still be saved?
Only if they repent before death, 1John 1:8-9.
If they stay in their unbelief...

2Thessalonians 1:7-8,
- and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
- in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ

Revelation 2:10,
- fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer, behold the devil shall cast some of you into prison
that ye may be tried and ye shall have tribulation ten days be thou faithful unto death and I will give thee a crown of life

Must: stay faithfull, that means continue believing the gospel and obeying the gospel.
Yes, the saved can loose their eternal reward.

Revelation 2:5,
- remember therefore from whence thou art fallen(Galatians 5:4) and repent and do the first works or else I will come unto thee quickly and remove thy candlestick out of his place except thou repent(1John 1:8-9)

You can't reconcile all that with all scripture, namely, this:

1 John 3:9​

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.​

What you are not accounting for, is that one born again of the spirit of God--is not the old man of sin and death--but is a completely new man and creation. Which is the reason why Paul emphasized "rightly dividing the word of truth"...because people want to mix up everything that God has divided, and divide what He has joined together. It's an age-old problem--come out of her!

 

[ScottA]

"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." 1 Cor 9:27

That is a poor translation. "I myself", most commonly refers to another (third person). In other words, Paul was actually referring to his old man making his new man look bad, like someone yet lost, a castaway.

 

[Episkopos]

You can't reconcile all that with all scripture, namely, this:

1 John 3:9​

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.​

What you are not accounting for, is that one born again of the spirit of God--is not the old man of sin and death--but is a completely new man and creation. Which is the reason why Paul emphasized "rightly dividing the word of truth"...because people want to mix up everything that God has divided, and divide what He has joined together. It's an age-old problem--come out of her!

But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delays his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looks not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matt 24:48-52

Also Paul emphasizes that being born of the Spirit puts us at an EQUIVALENCY with the Israelites in the wilderness.


And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Rom 11: 17-22

 

[Titus]

---

You can't reconcile all that with all scripture, namely, this:

1 John 3:9Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
What you are not accounting for, is that one born again of the spirit of God--is not the old man of sin and death--but is a completely new man and creation

No Sir, I can reconcile the lost are also those who have been saved with the word.

Notice: 1John 3:9 is the same audience being taught in 1John 1:8-9,
All of 123John is addressing born again Christians. John's letters is to the elect not the lost world.

1John 1:8-9,
- if we(christians) say that we(christians) have no sin we(christians) deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us
- if we(christians) confess our(John includes himself here!!!!) sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our(John includes himself) sins, and to cleanse us(John includes himself) from all unrighteousness

- if we(John includes himself again) say that we(John includes himself) have not sinned, we(John includes himself) make Him(God) a liar and His word is not in us(John includes himself)

1 John 3:9Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Written to the same born again believers as 1John 1:8-10.

Does John mean in 1John 3:9 that a Christian never sins?
Obviously not if you read the whole book from chapter 1 to chapter 5.
1John 2:1,
- My(Johns) little children these things I write to you, that ye sin not, and if any man sin, we(John includes himself) have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous

Friend, read 1John 3:8-10,
What John is teaching is, John is contrasting those who willfully practice sin with those who practise righteousness.
His point is not that a born again christian is incapable of committing any sin whatsoever.
Rather a person born of God will not consistantly live in sin as though sin were his way of living, while Gods seed remains in him.

Point: being born of God changes a mans relationship with sin.
John teaches a Christian must not sin, but if they do, they have forgiveness because of the advocate when they confess through repentance.

1Peter 1:23,
- being born again not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible by the word of God....

2Timothy 2:15, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[ScottA]

But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delays his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looks not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matt 24:48-52

Also Paul emphasizes that being born of the Spirit puts us at an EQUIVALENCY with the Israelites in the wilderness.


And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Rom 11: 17-22

Indeed, there are many here who say "My lord delays his coming" with their someday, future doctrines. Which do not pass the given test in 1 John 4:1 saying not to believe every spirit "but test the spirits, whether they are of God."

 

[ScottA]

No Sir, I can reconcile the lost are also those who have been saved with the word.

Notice: 1John 3:9 is the same audience being taught in 1John 1:8-9,
All of 123John is addressing born again Christians. John's letters is to the elect not the lost world.

1John 1:8-9,
- if we(christians) say that we(christians) have no sin we(christians) deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us
- if we(christians) confess our(John includes himself here!!!!) sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our(John includes himself) sins, and to cleanse us(John includes himself) from all unrighteousness

- if we(John includes himself again) say that we(John includes himself) have not sinned, we(John includes himself) make Him(God) a liar and His word is not in us(John includes himself)

You show here above just the opposite of what you claim...

For John said, "If" and "He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins"--meaning he speaks of those not forgiven--unsaved.

 

[ScottA]

Written to the same born again believers as 1John 1:8-10.

Does John mean in 1John 3:9 that a Christian never sins?
Obviously not if you read the whole book from chapter 1 to chapter 5.
1John 2:1,
- My(Johns) little children these things I write to you, that ye sin not, and if any man sin, we(John includes himself) have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous

Friend, read 1John 3:8-10,
What John is teaching is, John is contrasting those who willfully practice sin with those who practise righteousness.
His point is not that a born again christian is incapable of committing any sin whatsoever.
Rather a person born of God will not consistantly live in sin as though sin were his way of living, while Gods seed remains in him.

Point: being born of God changes a mans relationship with sin.
John teaches a Christian must not sin, but if they do, they have forgiveness because of the advocate when they confess through repentance.

1Peter 1:23,
- being born again not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible by the word of God....

2Timothy 2:15, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Yes, John was speaking to some who were born again. But he is not referring of the new body born of the spirit of God, but speaking of the that new body still carrying the old body of sin, that they should to should own that sin and bring it under subjection of their new spirit body, as Paul also described.

Remember, the New Testament was written on the cusp of that new out pouring of God's spirit, and thus many passages of scripture speak of both the old and the new body which are not yet separate. Therefore, Paul spoke of rightly dividing the word of truth, that those things written of the old and the new were not put together to form one false doctrine, which many do thinking there old body has experienced the change and a transformation as if the body of flesh will never die. But that is not what is being said. On the contrary, the flesh is dissolved with the elements of this world, and the new spirit body born of God can and does save a person in spirit. Which is the Holy Spirit act of Christ to remove and move our soul to follow Him as firstfruits of the Spirit, that where He is, we might be also.

 

[Titus]

For John said, "If" and "He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins"--meaning he speaks of those not forgiven--unsaved

By your interpretation John himself is not forgivin.
John includes himself with those who need forgiveness of sins.
READ THE ENTIRE LETTER OF JOHN!!!!
The  us in 1John 1:8-10.
Is the us whom John is speaking to, which John could not make any plainer have eternal life

1John 1:1-2,
- that which was from the beginning which we(John includes himself) have heard which  we have seen with our(John includes himself) eyes, which  we have looked upon and  our hands have handled of the Word of life

- for the life was manifested and  we have seen it and bear witness, and show unto you that
eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested unto us(the ones who have eternal life)

Please read the entire book of 1John chapter 1.
Now 1John 1:1-10,
- but if we(John and those who have eternal life) walk in the light as He is in the ligh we have fellowship one with another(the saved)
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us(John and born again christians)
from all sin

- If we(John includes himself with the saved christians)
SAY THAT WE(John and the born again) HAVE NO SIN WE(John includes himself) DECEIVE OURSELVES(John includes himself) AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US(John includes himself

John plainly says about himself, that if born again christians claim to be sinless they are deceived and they are not believing the truth.

That would include you denying John sins, JUST AS HE SAYS HE DOES.