Outer Darkness

[Episkopos]

Ephesians 4:8-10
[8] Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. [9] (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? [10] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

1 Corinthians 15:28
[28] And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

How can this be when there is an outer darkness reserved??

I answered this already. It is about the knowledge of His glory. His knowledge will fill all things. Even the rocks will experience His glory.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I will still stand on the Love and Integrity of God's Nature and Character. His love had a Lamb slain before the beginning of the world. His Love has never stopped.

"He made darkness His secret place; His pavilion round about Him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies." PS 18

PS 139:12
"Yea, the darkness hideth not from Thee, but the night shineth as the day; the darkness and the light are both alike to Thee."

ByGrace, I do get what you are saying but only beginning to read God’s word three or so years ago, I’m still cloudy on these things. Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Matthew 25:30
[30] And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

None of these sound pleasant. The OP, unless I’ve misunderstood says this outer darkness is eternal. So are you saying God’s presence is still with them in the weeping and gnashing of teeth in this outer darkness, so that God is in all things as His scripture says He will be? I’m not saying you are wrong only that I’m asking to seek what His word says instead of what I’ve been told.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Even the rocks will experience His glory.

Do you have scripture?

 

[Episkopos]

Do you have scripture?

I have entire bibles. Contained in any one of those bibles is this verse...

But Jesus answered, "I tell you, if these become silent, the stones will cry out!"

I ask you...which is harder...for a stone to cry out? (Seeing they have no mouths)

Or...as I said....even the rocks will experience His glory. (no mouth needed)

So then in Jesus' statement He has mouths on stones.....whereas I don't.

Do you see that as false doctrine?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I have entire bibles. Contained in any one of those bibles is this verse...

But Jesus answered, "I tell you, if these become silent, the stones will cry out!"

I ask you...which is harder...for a stone to cry out? (Seeing they have no mouths)

Or...as I said....even the rocks will experience His glory. (no mouth needed)

So then in Jesus' statement He has mouths on stones.....whereas I don't.

Do you see that as false doctrine?

Yes. I do. The stones that cry out are those hearts of stone God gives a new, a heart of flesh. Those are the stones that would cry out.

Luke 19:40
[40] And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

Ezekiel 11:19-20
[19] And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: [20] That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

2 Corinthians 3:3
[3] Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Luke 3:8
[8] Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. —these would cry out. These stones glorify God.

Matthew 4:3-4
[3] And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. [4] But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

We are the stones turned into bread: by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes. I do. The stones that cry out are those hearts of stone God gives a new, a heart of flesh. Those are the stones that would cry out.

Luke 19:40
[40] And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

Ezekiel 11:19-20
[19] And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: [20] That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

2 Corinthians 3:3
[3] Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Luke 3:8
[8] Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. —these would cry out.

Matthew 4:3-4
[3] And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. [4] But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

We are the stones turned into bread: by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

If all of creation will be filled with God's glory...the stones are included in the all.

And you are speculating that Jesus meant hearts. Did the devil tempt Jesus with eating hearts?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If all of creation will be filled with God's glory...the stones are included in the all.

And you are speculating that Jesus meant hearts. Did the devil tempt Jesus with eating hearts?

Did He tempt Him with eating flesh? —Power, desire, an image before man, fill your appetite, gain all this for it is mine to give you. What was the devil offering? What does he offer us?

Consider the sling stone that takes Goliath down. Did God do the impossible right before the devils eyes in turning stones into bread? Men into bread? Do we become bread for others to eat or not?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If all of creation will be filled with God's glory...the stones are included in the all.

And you are speculating that Jesus meant hearts. Did the devil tempt Jesus with eating hearts?

Luke 19:37-40
[37] And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen; [38] Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest. [39] And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke (stop)thy disciples. [40] And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

“rebuke them!” make them stop praising and rejoicing saying Here comes our King! “...if these hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.” ...what stones cry out then IF not those awaiting “peace”?

 

[Episkopos]

Did He tempt Him with eating flesh? —Power, desire, an image before man, fill your appetite, gain all this for it is mine to give you. What was the devil offering? What does he offer us?

Consider the sling stone that takes Goliath down. Did God do the impossible right before the devils eyes in turning stones into bread? Men into bread? Do we become bread for others to eat or not?

I think you're going too far with all this. You reacted to something I said about glory...

The stones analogy has been exhausted unless you think the stones crying out has something to do with Mick Jagger.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Do you see that as false doctrine?

I have entire bibles. Contained in any one of those bibles is this verse...

You asked. Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

That is what He did. Stones with mouths to glorify His name. You said it is about glory. That is what I was trying to share but you steer away from it even being a possibility...why?

 

[Episkopos]

You asked. Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

That is what He did. Stones with mouths to glorify His name. You said it is about glory. That is what I was trying to share but you steer away from it even being a possibility...why?

It is easy to get lost in the details. I did like your analogy to hearts of stone. I just didn't think it was exclusive. I try very hard to not limit God. It comes from my study of Hebrew, There are just so many different facets to the truth...I don't want to lose any.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It is easy to get lost in the details. I did like your analogy to hearts of stone. I just didn't think it was exclusive. I try very hard to not limit God. It comes from my study of Hebrew, There are just so many different facets to the truth...I don't want to lose any.

It is not about the analogy but curious if you can ever consider you ever could be wrong. I’ve been following closely what you say about humility then we come to some topics I really don’t understand. Your response is “I have already told you the answer” and under the righteous thread I’m dismissed and told “I won’t go over it again.” I sincerely do not understand the outer darkness. You say it is eternal. I ask if it is eternal and God will fill all then how is God there? You respond: God fills those in the outer darkness with weeping and gnashing of teeth...with knowledge. They are saved Christians? So, you believe God is only concerned those He cast in to outer darkness have knowledge of Him, along with weeping and gnashing of teeth?

 

[Episkopos]

It is not about the analogy but curious if you can ever consider you ever could be wrong. I’ve been following closely what you say about humility then we come to some topics I really don’t understand. Your response is “I have already told you the answer” and under the righteous thread I’m dismissed and told “I won’t go over it again.” I sincerely do not understand the outer darkness. You say it is eternal. I ask if it is eternal and God will fill all then how is God there? You respond: God fills those in the outer darkness with weeping and gnashing of teeth...with knowledge. They are saved Christians? So, you believe God is only concerned those He cast in to outer darkness have knowledge of Him, along with weeping and gnashing of teeth?

No. Outer darkness is one possible outcome for people who hold the truth in unrighteousness. (Rom. 1:18) I try to help people to steer clear of that possibility. It is so important to embrace a true humility. As long as I have breath I will stress this.

There is also the righteous nations (of them that are saved)

And there are the saints who will rule with Christ...over both the above.

Not to mention the wicked who will be destroyed in the lake of fire.

 

[quietthinker]

Ephesians 4:8-10
[8] Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. [9] (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? [10] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

1 Corinthians 15:28
[28] And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

How can this be when there is an outer darkness reserved??

I think some qualification is needed here. We don't seem to have any problem understanding what is meant by 'he ascended' as we have the record in Acts 1:9-11 but may I ask how you understand 'he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth'?

 

[quietthinker]

No. Outer darkness is one possible outcome for people who hold the truth in unrighteousness. (Rom. 1:18) I try to help people to steer clear of that possibility. It is so important to embrace a true humility. As long as I have breath I will stress this.

There is also the righteous nations (of them that are saved)

And there are the saints who will rule with Christ...over both the above.

Not to mention the wicked who will be destroyed in the lake of fire.

'Outer darkness' is just another expression for total destruction.
If we do not understand it this way and try to make these expressions walk on all fours so to speak, we open a never ending can of worms unable to be solved. It would give rise to questions like, 'if there is outer darkness where then is there inner darkness or what does the middle ground consist of' You can see how ridiculous this gets.

 

[Episkopos]

'Outer darkness' is just another expression for total destruction.
If we do not understand it this way and try to make these expressions walk on all fours so to speak, we open a never ending can of worms unable to be solved. It would give rise to questions like, 'if there is outer darkness where then is there inner darkness or what does the middle ground consist of' You can see how ridiculous this gets.

I don't think so. I take the bible as it reads. The scapegoat was sent into the wilderness to wander there. It is a constant theme in the bible. Even Jude calls them...wandering stars...

 

[Taken]

Outer darkness is Where unsaved Living souls, departed out of physically dead Bodies...
ARE "CAST" To;

Hell...

VOID of Gods Light.

BECAUSE....

They rejected Belief IN God.

There they WAIT, for Judgement Day.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Episkopos]

Outer darkness is Where unsaved Living souls, departed out of physically dead Bodies...
ARE "CAST" To;

Hell...

VOID of Gods Light.

BECAUSE....

They rejected Belief IN God.

There they WAIT, for Judgement Day.

God Bless,
Taken

An opinion....but not in the bible.

Jude says ...the blackness of darkness for ever. It is an eternal destiny.

 

[Taken]

'Outer darkness' is just another expression for total destruction.

Disagree.

Living souls IN a living body;
Have opportunity...
To believe in God, In Christ.
To Accept Salvation Jesus' Offering of Salvation... Now or not.

Some Accept; Jesus' Offering; and become saved now, and Are Christ's Church;

Some continue in "The Law"; and become saved at the end of their physical life, "according to" their adherence To THE LAW, as "they" Elected To Believe IN God and serve God, "according To" THE LAW, of their Forefathers...who became Gods "early" saints.

Some completely;
Reject God
Reject Christ Jesus

And upon "their physical bodily death", their living soul is "CAST" TO OUTER Darkness.

Completely VOID, of Gods Light.
Hell.
A place THEIR living soul experiences, the "agony" of BEING...separated from Gods Light/Glory/Comfort/Opportunity.

THAT is a consequence, for such a man TO NOT elect to OVERCOME darkness.

THAT is not JUDGEMENT DAY.

SENTENCING.....comes AFTER Judgement Day.

SENTENCING....has to do with "DESTRUCTION" ..of the soul and body.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

An opinion....but not in the bible.

Making an accusation with YOUR opinion is irrelevant.

Jude says ...the blackness of darkness for ever. It is an eternal destiny.

And? What is your Point? Are you Accusing me of saying otherwise?

God Bless,
Taken