Outer Darkness

[Enoch111]

'Outer darkness' is just another expression for total destruction.

As long as we are clear that total destruction does NOT mean Annihilation but eternal ruin in eternal torment.

There are a lot of Annihilationists around claiming that *perish* and *destroy* (Greek apollumi) mean evaporation. That is simply false.

Why is the Lake of Fire (Gehenna) located in *outer darkness*? Because God will not tolerate sin and evil to be present within the New Heavens and the New Earth. Hades will be obliterated from the heart of the earth ("cast into the Lake of Fire" since it is no longer needed), and Hell (Gehenna) will be banished outside space into *outer darkness*, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. This is eternal conscious torment, and a warning to every sinner to repent and be converted.

 

[quietthinker]

I don't think so. I take the bible as it reads. The scapegoat was sent into the wilderness to wander there. It is a constant theme in the bible. Even Jude calls them...wandering stars...

The scapegoat is symbolic of Satan not people.
The expression 'wandering stars' is akin to the expression 'a ship without a rudder' If one needs to explain metaphors it is indicative that they are not understood.

 

[quietthinker]

Disagree.

Living souls IN a living body;
Have opportunity...
To believe in God, In Christ.
To Accept Salvation Jesus' Offering of Salvation... Now or not.

Some Accept; Jesus' Offering; and become saved now, and Are Christ's Church;

Some continue in "The Law"; and become saved at the end of their physical life, "according to" their adherence To THE LAW, as "they" Elected To Believe IN God and serve God, "according To" THE LAW, of their Forefathers...who became Gods "early" saints.

Some completely;
Reject God
Reject Christ Jesus

And upon "their physical bodily death", their living soul is "CAST" TO OUTER Darkness.

Completely VOID, of Gods Light.
Hell.
A place THEIR living soul experiences, the "agony" of BEING...separated from Gods Light/Glory/Comfort/Opportunity.

THAT is a consequence, for such a man TO NOT elect to OVERCOME darkness.

THAT is not JUDGEMENT DAY.

SENTENCING.....comes AFTER Judgement Day.

SENTENCING....has to do with "DESTRUCTION" ..of the soul and body.

God Bless,
Taken

Sorry Taken, this is weaving the garment for the soon to be revealed naked Emperor.

 

[quietthinker]

As long as we are clear that total destruction does NOT mean Annihilation but eternal ruin in eternal torment.

There are a lot of Annihilationists around claiming that *perish* and *destroy* (Greek apollumi) mean evaporation. That is simply false.

Why is the Lake of Fire (Gehenna) located in *outer darkness*? Because God will not tolerate sin and evil to be present within the New Heavens and the New Earth. Hades will be obliterated from the heart of the earth ("cast into the Lake of Fire" since it is no longer needed), and Hell (Gehenna) will be banished outside space into *outer darkness*, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. This is eternal conscious torment, and a warning to every sinner to repent and be converted.

 

[quietthinker]

The meaning of the word destruction need not be twisted, turned or reinvented. It is self evident what it means.
Didn't Lucifer play that game with Eve? The clear, straightforward statement of God he cast doubt on. God said to the pair they would die, Lucifer said they would not. Who are you going to believe?

Any interpretation that says death is not the total diminishment of life in every facet of life ie, physical, mental, spiritual has bought into Lucifers lie, and having done such must come up with all manner of fanciful concepts to justify the lie. To then attempt to back up the lie with scripture is blasphemy. It is attempting to turn the lie into truth.

 

[Taken]

Sorry Taken, this is weaving the garment for the soon to be revealed naked Emperor.

Could you clarify your comment?

What are you sorry for?
And what Emperor are you talking about?


God Bless,
Taken

 

[Episkopos]

The scapegoat is symbolic of Satan not people.
The expression 'wandering stars' is akin to the expression 'a ship without a rudder' If one needs to explain metaphors it is indicative that they are not understood.

Azazel:escape goat

Satan? That is a Jewish "fable".

We see the same type of thing when Jesus is presented to the people....together with Jesus Barabbas.

But it represents the Bema judgment.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I think some qualification is needed here. We don't seem to have any problem understanding what is meant by 'he ascended' as we have the record in Acts 1:9-11 but may I ask how you understand 'he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth'?

I'm not sure, quietthinker. I'm certain God doesn't cast people into outer darkness filling them with the knowledge of Him only, and there they suffer for eternity. If that is the truth, then I don't know mercy at all. Darkness is a lack of knowledge of God but His word says He will bring all things into the light, that nothing will be hid.

 

[Episkopos]

When Jesus was presented by Pilate to the people...together with Jesus Barabbas.... there was a great pressure from the religious establishment to cry out for the release of Barabbas... (at least in the movies).

To be seen as a follower of Jesus would have been seen as very bad. So much so that Peter, fearing for his life, denied Jesus 3 times.

There will ALWAYS be that pressure to deny the REAL Jesus for the one the religious establishment makes him out to be. People want to be free like Barabbas.....not go to the cross like the real Jesus.

People make out that you either accept Jesus or not. But the religious do this.

One must ask...which Jesus?

Those who say that there is nothing required of them...no cross...no death of self...are following Jesus Barabbas. They will follow Him into perpetual darkness.

 

[Taken]

The meaning of the word destruction need not be twisted, turned or reinvented. It is self evident what it means.

It is self evident what it means.

Disagree.

Didn't Lucifer play that game with Eve? The clear, straightforward statement of God he cast doubt on. God said to the pair they would die, Lucifer said they would not. Who are you going to believe?

Any interpretation that says death is not the total diminishment of life in every facet of life ie, physical, mental, spiritual has bought into Lucifers lie, and having done such must come up with all manner of fanciful concepts to justify the lie. To then attempt to back up the lie with scripture is blasphemy. It is attempting to turn the lie into truth.

Your interpretation is saying DEATH means DESTRUCTION.
I disagree.

Then you define DEATH, as TOTAL, diminishment "OF" Life, which I disagree, is completely True.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

One must ask...which Jesus?

One MUST ask, which Jesus?

I have never asked such a thing....
I know Jesus of Nazareth....

Who is this "other" Jesus?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Episkopos]

One MUST ask, which Jesus?

I have never asked such a thing....
I know Jesus of Nazareth....

Who is this "other" Jesus?

God Bless,
Taken

Jesus Barabbas. The popular one. The one that loves freedom of action.

 

[Taken]

I'm not sure, quietthinker. I'm certain God doesn't cast people into outer darkness

After Judgement..
Outer Darkness, Is after Judgement.
OUTER Darkness, is a Result of the Sentence being effected.

filling them with the knowledge of Him only,

What some men have Rejected (during their natural Blood Life existence) is Accepting:
Thee heavenly LORD God and Christ the Lord Jesus, God with us....

Those men shall physically die and shall be Bodily raised to hell, (VOID their blood), their living souls in hell, IMPARTED into their bodies....now their body HAS "soul" life IN their body...now they shall SEE, thee Son of man; The Lord, revealed For them TO SEE.

To note:
Men Reject, because, try CAN NOT SEE, and can not follow and believe what they can not see.
To note:
The Son of man, these men SEE, who, has come To THEM WITH Power, TO JUDGE Them.
Those men...acknowledge Him, that He IS thee Lord Jesus, and bow to Him.

(Just as the accused acknowledges when they rise/stand, when the Judge appears in the courtroom).

The Books are opened. The Books either have a mans Name IN the Books or their name does not appear in the Books.

The Books ARE documented evidence.
(Just like in a courtroom, the JUDGE considers the Evidence...to conclude The What the Sentence Shall be.)

The Judge (Son of Man, Jesus), With Power, (Christ) ...EFFECTS The Judge-ment; the Sentence;

He departs LIFE out of their soul; which IS;
Him causing, their body and soul To be in a state of "complete" Darkness, called outer darkness.

The Life that Was in that man, belonged TO GOD, and Returned To God.

Zero Life, Zero Light is left In the Vessels...
The body God created and the soul God made.

The two Vessels, "KNOW" their Consequence....they cry, they wail in sorrow and distress.......and THEN their body and soul becomes Destroyed, by Gods Fire.

Does the body and soul "disappear"?
No. Everything God has created and made;
Remains Forever. However, it does Not FOREVER "Look" the Same.

Body's and souls become burned, become ash.

Nowhere in Scripture does the Light OF GOD, the Life of God dwell IN Ash.

and there they suffer for eternity.

Where in Scripture has, does, will God impart Life from Him into a body, a soul; that has By His Power been caused TO burn to ash in His Fire?

If that is the truth, then I don't know mercy at all.

Briefly; Gods Mercy For mankind IS:
1) Comfort for the Saved.
2) Never giving a man WHO rejects Him, Eternal Life "And" eternal separation from God.

Darkness is a lack of knowledge of God

Yes.
However....men alive in their bodies, living on earth, have ACCESS and OPPORTUNITY to hear and learn, and freewill to believe or not.
Physically dead bodies, know nothing, Their living soul waits for Judgement.

but His word says He will bring all things into the light, that nothing will be hid.

Correct. WHEN?
For a Saved and Born Again man...WHEN is NOW. 24-7 THEY have ACCESS TO God to ASK anything of Him.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Episkopos]

After Judgement..
Outer Darkness, Is after Judgement.
OUTER Darkness, is a Result of the Sentence being effected.



What some men have Rejected (during their natural Blood Life existence) is Accepting:
Thee heavenly LORD God and Christ the Lord Jesus, God with us....

Those men shall physically die and shall be Bodily raised to hell, (VOID their blood), their living souls in hell, IMPARTED into their bodies....now their body HAS "soul" life IN their body...now they shall SEE, thee Son of man; The Lord, revealed For them TO SEE.

To note:
Men Reject, because, try CAN NOT SEE, and can not follow and believe what they can not see.
To note:
The Son of man, these men SEE, who, has come To THEM WITH Power, TO JUDGE Them.
Those men...acknowledge Him, that He IS thee Lord Jesus, and bow to Him.

(Just as the accused acknowledges when they rise/stand, when the Judge appears in the courtroom).

The Books are opened. The Books either have a mans Name IN the Books or their name does not appear in the Books.

The Books ARE documented evidence.
(Just like in a courtroom, the JUDGE considers the Evidence...to conclude The What the Sentence Shall be.)

The Judge (Son of Man, Jesus), With Power, (Christ) ...EFFECTS The Judge-ment; the Sentence;

He departs LIFE out of their soul; which IS;
Him causing, their body and soul To be in a state of "complete" Darkness, called outer darkness.

The Life that Was in that man, belonged TO GOD, and Returned To God.

Zero Life, Zero Light is left In the Vessels...
The body God created and the soul God made.

The two Vessels, "KNOW" their Consequence....they cry, they wail in sorrow and distress.......and THEN their body and soul becomes Destroyed, by Gods Fire.

Does the body and soul "disappear"?
No. Everything God has created and made;
Remains Forever. However, it does Not FOREVER "Look" the Same.

Body's and souls become burned, become ash.

Nowhere in Scripture does the Light OF GOD, the Life of God dwell IN Ash.



Where in Scripture has, does, will God impart Life from Him into a body, a soul; that has By His Power been caused TO burn to ash in His Fire?



Briefly; Gods Mercy For mankind IS:
1) Comfort for the Saved.
2) Never giving a man WHO rejects Him, Eternal Life "And" eternal separation from God.



Yes.
However....men alive in their bodies, living on earth, have ACCESS and OPPORTUNITY to hear and learn, and freewill to believe or not.
Physically dead bodies, know nothing, Their living soul waits for Judgement.



Correct. WHEN?
For a Saved and Born Again man...WHEN is NOW. 24-7 THEY have ACCESS TO God to ASK anything of Him.

God Bless,
Taken

But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

 

[Taken]

Jesus Barabbas. The popular one. The one that loves freedom of action.

Oh, Greek speak.
Bar= son of
Abba= father

Gee, he thus must be a man named Jesus.

Curious...
Do you think ALL men who become "sons of God", should be or will be called Jesus?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

But

But ....implies you disagreed with what I said, could you be more specific what you disagreed with before you change the subject to WHAT is IN an unidentified Great House?

in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Episkopos]

Oh, Greek speak.
Bar= son of
Abba= father

Gee, he thus must be a man named Jesus.

Curious...
Do you think ALL men who become "sons of God", should be or will be called Jesus?

God Bless,
Taken

In the older Greek manuscripts Barabbas is called Jesus Barabbas. But this was seen as a sensitive issue for the translators.

However by leaving out his full name we don't get the tension that believers face in regard to the real identity of Jesus. So we are faced with a choice....just like the people that were presented with Barabbas and the real barABBA.


Here is a wikipedia historic...

Barabbas' name appears as bar-Abbas in the Greek texts of the gospels. It is derived ultimately from the Aramaic בר-אבא, Bar-abbâ, "son of the father". Some ancient manuscripts of Matthew 27:16–17 have the full name of Barabbas as "Jesus Barabbas" and this was probably the name as originally written in the text.[13] Early church father Origen was troubled by the fact that his copies of the gospels gave Barabbas' name as "Jesus Barabbas" and declared that since it was impossible he could have had such a holy name, "Jesus" must have been added to Barabbas' name by a heretic.[14] It is possible that later scribes, copying the passage, removed the name "Jesus" from "Jesus Barabbas" to avoid dishonour to the name of Jesus the Messiah.[15]

 

[Taken]

In the older Greek manuscripts Barabbas is called Jesus Barabbas. But this was seen as a sensitive issue for the translators.

I have not seen "older" Greek manuscripts or know of the scribes who wrote, or know how the translators felt.

I am pretty confident all men are sons of their father....and that among the Jews, Yeshua was a fairly common name.

I don't find a confusion of WHO Scripture is speaking of when a man called Jesus of Nazareth, son of Joseph, son of Mary, the Lord, God Sent, Son of God, etc. is mentioned.

However by leaving out his full name we don't get the tension that believers face in regard to the real identity of Jesus. So we are faced with a choice....just like the people that were presented with Barabbas and the real barABBA.

Personally, I do not find LEAVING out the FACTS as the fast track to Understanding.

There were multiple people in Scripture with the same Common names....Joseph, Mary, Judas, John, Simon, etc. for example.

IF "Jesus" was also Barabbas' Known NAME, why omit the fact?
And WHY If one is aware of that being a fact, that would confuse people?

I mean really? People would be Confused ...
Who is who?
Jesus Barabbas the murderer?
Jesus the Lord and Savior?

Hokey to me,

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

In the older Greek manuscripts Barabbas is called Jesus Barabbas. But this was seen as a sensitive issue for the translators.

However by leaving out his full name we don't get the tension that believers face in regard to the real identity of Jesus. So we are faced with a choice....just like the people that were presented with Barabbas and the real barABBA.


Here is a wikipedia historic...

Barabbas' name appears as bar-Abbas in the Greek texts of the gospels. It is derived ultimately from the Aramaic בר-אבא, Bar-abbâ, "son of the father". Some ancient manuscripts of Matthew 27:16–17 have the full name of Barabbas as "Jesus Barabbas" and this was probably the name as originally written in the text.[13] Early church father Origen was troubled by the fact that his copies of the gospels gave Barabbas' name as "Jesus Barabbas" and declared that since it was impossible he could have had such a holy name, "Jesus" must have been added to Barabbas' name by a heretic.[14] It is possible that later scribes, copying the passage, removed the name "Jesus" from "Jesus Barabbas" to avoid dishonour to the name of Jesus the Messiah.[15]

Thanks for sharing "someone's" commentary and what they believe and "think happened".

In no fashion have I confused,
Jesus of Nazareth with another man named Jesus.
Or
Confused Judas of Kerioth....with Judas of Galilee.

Got your point.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Episkopos]

Thanks for sharing "someone's" commentary and what they believe and "think happened".

In no fashion have I confused,
Jesus of Nazareth with another man named Jesus.
Or
Confused Judas of Kerioth....with Judas of Galilee.

Got your point.

God Bless,
Taken

There are spiritual forces at work that your mocking tone will only encourage. And I'm not saying those forces are good. You can remain confident in yourself...but it is ignorance that you are exhibiting. Unless God holds back the full force of the deceiver....until you are ready to overcome it...you will not be able to bear up.

Humility is key.

Pride comes before a fall precisely because God let's you take on the forces that you think you can handle.

How else can you teach a spoiled child?