Outer Darkness

[Episkopos]

I thought to start this thread since I find no one considers this eternal destiny in their calculations as to possible outcomes for humanity.

Jude 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Wandering in the wilderness is nothing new...but into eternity?

Eternal darkness...or outer darkness... this is a destiny that Jesus spoke of.

Outer darkness is a place referred to three times in the Gospel of Matthew (8:12, 22:13, and 25:30) into which a person may be "cast out", and where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth".

Before I go into more detail...I leave it open for others to comment on this subject. it isn't something discussed very much if at all. But it should be.

 

[Nancy]

I thought to start this thread since I find no one considers this eternal destiny in their calculations as to possible outcomes for humanity.

Jude 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Wandering in the wilderness is nothing new...but into eternity?

Eternal darkness...or outer darkness... this is a destiny that Jesus spoke of.

Outer darkness is a place referred to three times in the Gospel of Matthew (8:12, 22:13, and 25:30) into which a person may be "cast out", and where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth".

Before I go into more detail...I leave it open for others to comment on this subject. it isn't something discussed very much if at all. But it should be.

Some seem to see the 'Outer darkness" as hell...I see others talk about it being those vessels of dis-honor not being allowed to the marriage supper of the Lamb, but will themselves be saved. Not at all sure in my own mind about this. I hope more will expound on this...♥

 

[Episkopos]

Some seem to see the 'Outer darkness" as hell...I see others talk about it being those vessels of dis-honor not being allowed to the marriage supper of the Lamb, but will themselves be saved. Not at all sure in my own mind about this. I hope more will expound on this...♥

Outer darkness cannot be hell...since fire brings light. A lake of fire would light up the sky as if it were always day. No, outer darkness is anywhere where God isn't. It is to be cast away from His presence.

And this destiny is for the people of God who were not faithful...or who lived a lie.

 

[Episkopos]

As Christians we don't hear too much about the "day of atonement". We see this as very Jewish. But not so. The day of atonement or Yom Kippour...has yet to take place. It is the judgment of the house of God. The Bema seat judgment.

There are 2 groups of people...just as in the parable of the 10 virgins. Some are taken in...sacrificed. Some are rejected...into the wilderness.

Lev. 16:7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

This is also a picture of Jesus Christ (Bar abba) and Jesus Barabbas (son of the father). Two men with identical names. One was sacrificed and the other released. Which one did the people choose? Whom would we choose if it meant having to be sacrificed...going to the cross ...or being free to live as we have always lived? Which is more popular? Which one is based on love of God and which is based on self-preservation?

So then if we retain our lives we will lose them...but if we sacrifice our lives for Christ...then we will find life (His life).

If we knew that it was possible to be sent into outer darkness...forever...how would that affect our walks?

 

[Episkopos]

Some of the other distinctions in regard to the judgment of the house of God...for honour and for shame.

Cain and Abel...Ruth and Orpah...Jacob and Esau...even the 2 thieves crucified with Jesus.

 

[faithfulness]

As Christians we don't hear too much about the "day of atonement". We see this as very Jewish. But not so. The day of atonement or Yom Kippour...has yet to take place. It is the judgment of the house of God. The Bema seat judgment.

There are 2 groups of people...just as in the parable of the 10 virgins. Some are taken in...sacrificed. Some are rejected...into the wilderness.

Lev. 16:7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

This is also a picture of Jesus Christ (Bar abba) and Jesus Barabbas (son of the father). Two men with identical names. One was sacrificed and the other released. Which one did the people choose? Whom would we choose if it meant having to be sacrificed...going to the cross ...or being free to live as we have always lived? Which is more popular? Which one is based on love of God and which is based on self-preservation?

So then if we retain our lives we will lose them...but if we sacrifice our lives for Christ...then we will find life (His life).

If we knew that it was possible to be sent into outer darkness...forever...how would that affect our walks?

Yes, a daily living sacrifice. Taking a bullet would be a lot easier than dying daily.
After a steady diet of reading/realizing that it is possible to be sent into outer darkness...forever...my walk has been affected...understatement. It is quite the deterrent. But pray my choice is based on love of God. My words will be tested.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes, a daily living sacrifice. Taking a bullet would be a lot easier than dying daily.
After a steady diet of reading/realizing that it is possible to be sent into outer darkness...forever...my walk has been affected...understatement. It is quite the deterrent. But pray my choice is based on love of God. My words will be tested.

Amen...much harder. Taking a bullet is a righteous thing...but a living sacrifice is holy.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, a daily living sacrifice. Taking a bullet would be a lot easier than dying daily.
After a steady diet of reading/realizing that it is possible to be sent into outer darkness...forever...my walk has been affected...understatement. It is quite the deterrent. But pray my choice is based on love of God. My words will be tested.

You shouldn't doubt that it's based on love.
God IS love. He revealed Himself to you because He loves you.
You replied out of love. We believe hell is a fact. We know we don't want to go there.
But...what is upper most in your mind?
Thinking about hell all the time...
Or thinking about God's love for you for going to the cross?
I hope it's the second.

 

[GodsGrace]

Outer darkness cannot be hell...since fire brings light. A lake of fire would light up the sky as if it were always day. No, outer darkness is anywhere where God isn't. It is to be cast away from His presence.

And this destiny is for the people of God who were not faithful...or who lived a lie.

Did you just say the people of God will be cast into outer darkness?

 

[Enoch111]

Before I go into more detail...I leave it open for others to comment on this subject. it isn't something discussed very much if at all. But it should be.

We cannot dissociate outer darkness from the Lake of Fire and eternal separation from God in eternal conscious torment. (Something which is being denied more and more by the cults and the naysayers).

Since space (outer space) is now seen as something which is finite, it is entirely possible that Hell (the Lake of Fire) is outside of space, and therefore outside the New Heavens and the New Earth.

 

[Triumph1300]

My brother-in-law was taken up in a space ship.
He said they wanted to have sex with him.
Suppose to have been an experiment.
He's all caught up in this outer space thing.

 

[faithfulness]

You shouldn't doubt that it's based on love.
God IS love. He revealed Himself to you because He loves you.
You replied out of love. We believe hell is a fact. We know we don't want to go there.
But...what is upper most in your mind?
Thinking about hell all the time...
Or thinking about God's love for you for going to the cross?
I hope it's the second.

I find no one considers this eternal destiny in their calculations as to possible outcomes for humanity.
Jude 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
Wandering in the wilderness is nothing new...but into eternity?
Eternal darkness...or outer darkness... this is a destiny that Jesus spoke of.
Outer darkness is a place referred to three times in the Gospel of Matthew (8:12, 22:13, and 25:30) into which a person may be "cast out", and where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth".

I chose the red pill.

 

[Enoch111]

Outer darkness cannot be hell...since fire brings light.

Since we know next to nothing about outer darkness, we should not presume that we understand how the Lake of Fire can burn and yet be in outer darkness. A simply analogy would be a camp fire on a dark night with no moon and stars visible. It is totally dark yet the campfire burns and throws light.

The fact is that in Scripture Hell and outer darkness are presented together.

 

[Episkopos]

Did you just say the people of God will be cast into outer darkness?

Surprised? Judgment begins at the house of God...and it will be severe.

 

[Episkopos]

Since we know next to nothing about outer darkness, we should not presume that we understand how the Lake of Fire can burn and yet be in outer darkness. A simply analogy would be a camp fire on a dark night with no moon and stars visible. It is totally dark yet the campfire burns and throws light.

The fact is that in Scripture Hell and outer darkness are presented together.

Did you just compare the lake of fire to a campfire?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Outer darkness cannot be hell...since fire brings light. A lake of fire would light up the sky as if it were always day. No, outer darkness is anywhere where God isn't. It is to be cast away from His presence.

And this destiny is for the people of God who were not faithful...or who lived a lie.

This fire is complicated and has confused me for the longest time. Isn’t the fire God’s wrath against evil poured out upon the world? His Spirit. Torward a Son, one plucked from the fire as Joshua ... the fire purifies and filthy garments are changed into new raiment.

Zechariah 3:2-4
[2] And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? [3] Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. [4] And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

The fire of God refines to reveal the attributes that remain once the stubble is burned away. As God’s wrath increases on the world, the more evil is burned away. The more evil burned, the more light is revealed that overcomes the dark.

Exodus 3:2-3
[2] And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. [3] And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

Will there be outer darkness once God’s fire consumes all and is in all?

 

[Enoch111]

Did you just compare the lake of fire to a campfire?

I simply presented an analogy where both total darkness and the light from a fire can exist at the same time. You are the one who claimed that Hell cannot exist or be in outer darkness.

 

[Episkopos]

"VictoryinJesus, post: 434955, member: 7369"]This fire is complicated and has confused me for the longest time. Isn’t the fire God’s wrath against evil poured out upon the world? His Spirit. Torward a Son, one plucked from the fire as Joshua ... the fire purifies and filthy garments are changed into new raiment.

The filthy garments are what we have done to God's holiness. The fire will indeed purify by destroying the garments...but this will leave nakedness and shame.. In this life we can have a change of raiment, however.

Zechariah 3:2-4
[2] And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? [3] Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. [4] And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

The fire of God refines to reveal the attributes that remain once the stubble is burned away. As God’s wrath increases on the world, the more evil is burned away. The more evil burned, the more light is revealed that overcomes the dark.

Exodus 3:2-3
[2] And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. [3] And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

Will there be outer darkness once God fire consumes all and is in all?

Outer darkness is an eternal destiny. It is for they who are rejected of God...yet are still saved.

 

[Enoch111]

This fire is complicated and has confused me for the longest time. Isn’t the fire God’s wrath against evil poured out upon the world? His Spirit. Torward a Son, one plucked from the fire as Joshua ... the fire purifies and filthy garments are changed into new raiment.

There should really be no confusion about fire, since fire associated with (1) cleansing fire, (2) fiery judgments of God's wrath, and (3) the Lake of Fire and brimstone (eternal Hell). Which reminds us that fire is both beneficial and destructive.

 

[Episkopos]

I simply presented an analogy where both total darkness and the light from a fire can exist at the same time. You are the one who claimed that Hell cannot exist or be in outer darkness.

The lake of fire indeed exists. It is not for the people of God. But eternal darkness, with it eternal wandering is indeed a judgment on the house of God. It is reserved for hypocrites and the like.

When Jesus says to those who did many wonders in His name ...."go away, I never knew you"...where do you think they go?