Outer Darkness

[1stCenturyLady]

yes, in order for some to have Death More Abundantly some others must have Death Less Abundantly i guess right

I've often wondered about degrees of punishment also. But don't plan to find out by experience.

 

[bbyrd009]

I haven't found that the Bible gives a detailed explanation. Granted what it is, is total separation from God. God is light. I'm just wondering 'when' does that begin - at death - or judgment.

ok but note that Scripture speaks of ppl walking around "dead," and you are supposed to "die" at baptism

I've often wondered about degrees of punishment also. But don't plan to find out by experience.

wadr plan to find a few more rungs on the ladder of why "thief in the night" was employed as a concept, rather than any number of illustrations that would have served someone anticipating Death, More Abundantly. Iow reflect on it in the context of death at baptism, and see how it resolves then. Or you might begin from the premise that we have all been deceived, and no one knows where they go when they die, all go to the same place, and we do not yet know what we will become. Play with the perspective iow; the truth will not change regardless, right.

You have kids? So you are already acquainted with 2 ppl being in the same place, and one is in heaven while the other is in hell

 

[bbyrd009]

Didn't realize that a BASIC concept needed to be quoted.

imo it should be interpreted in the context of ppl on tares, as he who says he knows does not yet know implies

 

[bbyrd009]

First? Before what...seems you are indicating Before Gods Word about Hell?

If that be the case I disagree.

sorry, you are not making much sense to me here; yes, Tartarus is a Greek myth first, just like Hades, all of these are derived from Greek mythology, they were not invented in Scripture. Your agreement or disagreement is not relevant wadr. Since that prolly sounds mean or something i mean to say that mine would not be either.

But sticking with your diversion, you would first have to show me your version of God's Word about hell, but since you think the Bible is God's Word i would accept any Bible verse that you imagine has "hell" in it too, and we could go find Gehenna together from there i guess.

but let's be honest for just a second, ok; you have come to a conclusion about life after death, and anything in Scripture that indicates anything to the contrary you are just not going to be able to process, or i guess even hear, isn't that basically correct? All the All go to the same place and No one knows where they go when they die in the world would not change your mind on this matter, isn't that true?

Can't find damned souls going to the same place as fallen angels?
What "place" do you refer to?

Tartarus, the same place i had just referred to; but nevermind though, ok, i think things have clarified enough

Pss 19:1,2

unfortunately knowledge revealed does not equate to knowledge understood, as the concept of hearing makes plain i guess?

 

[Nancy]

you would first have to show me your version of God's Word about hell, but since you think the Bible is God's Word i would accept any Bible verse that you imagine has "hell" in it too, and we could go find Gehenna together i guess
Tartarus

Isn't Tartarus a Greek myth?

 

[bbyrd009]

Isn't Tartarus a Greek myth?

that has always been my understanding anyway, yes.

 

[bbyrd009]

Because I believe the Lord created WorldS.

then why would He tell us to leave the world, do you think?

 

[Nancy]

that has always been my understanding anyway, yes.

Am I understanding that Tartarus is your idea of Hell? Or, do you not believe in Hell? My situation on that right now, is on the fence as to exactly what Hell is. We know it was originally created for Satan and the angels that had fallen with him... We all have our own thoughts/beliefs on Hell...and Heaven too. But then...Hell. Hmm...I am going to look deeper into this.

 

[Nancy]

then why would He tell us to leave the world, do you think?

Where does He tell us to "leave the world"? I cannot find any scripture speaking to this Mark.

 

[bbyrd009]

Am I understanding that Tartarus is your idea of Hell?

i would put it more like Tartarus is everyone else's idea of Gehenna now, somehow Gehenna has been transformed into hell (Tartarus, in Scripture, yes, as evidenced by the plain description; a fiery place of "torture" for fallen angels)

i say "somehow" but the path is plain, via scribes who had no better term for their already corrupted preconceptions, being as how they wanted to be immortal and hang out in Valhalla too.

One can just search "hell came from Angle (Anglo) scribes via Norse mythology, because they had no term for Hades, which has no punishment in the afterlife." or something similar. Or just watch people wiggle and squirm whenever i bring up the point, there's like what 10 posts of mine in here that are like invisible or whatever lol, radioactive maybe

 

[bbyrd009]

Where does He tell us to "leave the world"? I cannot find any scripture speaking to this Mark.

be in the world, not of it, in another translation

 

[Nancy]

i would put it more like Tartarus is everyone else's idea of Gehenna now, somehow Gehenna has been transformed into hell (Tartarus, in Scripture, yes, as evidenced by the plain description; a fiery place of "torture" for fallen angels)

i say "somehow" but the path is plain, via scribes who had no better term for their already corrupted preconceptions, being as how they wanted to be immortal and hang out in Valhalla too.

One can just search "hell came from Angle (Anglo) scribes via Norse mythology, because they had no term for Hades, which has no punishment in the afterlife." or something similar

"The New Testament. This indeterminate picture of Sheol and its Greek translation, Hades, allowed varying interpretations by intertestamental Jews. In the New Testament Christ's revelation and salvific work decisively shape this term. For Christ has established authority over all powers ( Eph 1:20-23 ), even the one who "holds the power of death" ( Heb 2:14 ; 2 Tim 1:10 ). He is the "Lord of both the dead and the living" ( Rom 14:9 ). - Hades Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

When I look up the Hebrew for Gehenna, I find it is a small valley that's in Jerusalem and it is a cursed place as, people were sacrificing their own children by burning them Sheol I read is a dark place where the dead go, righteous as well as the un-righteous. Cut off from God, a dark and still place as described from what I read.

Hades I find, from the link above is Greek for the deity of the underworld, abode of the dead. The NT's use is builds on the Hebrew parallel, Sheol (Se'ol'). I have to read much further with much prayer before I can even consider what exactly "Hell" really is.

 

[Nancy]

be in the world, not of it, in another translation

Well, now THAT I understand, lol.

 

[bbyrd009]

I have to read much further with much prayer before I can even consider what exactly "Hell" really is.

ok, but one caveat, when you're done, if you get it, you won't be able to hang out much with "Christians" any more without laughing, or crying. Bc they need hell, and you won't :).

the unheard posts in here should be a guide tho, but i have over a year of being basically ignored on this subject, i might be more sensitized to it. i think you even "liked" one of my posts/questions? You maybe imagined the guy was actually going to reply, too? on this page or the previous one, i forget. heck, four different ppl on the last two pages. Don't worry, these posts are invisible to them now

 

[Nancy]

In the KJV, there 23 ties in the NT that the word Hell is used...I need to see if they all come from the same Greek word.
Ha, here's your Tartaros: "Depending on the Bible, there is anywhere from 13 to 23 times that the word "hell" appears in English Bibles. The King James has more verses than all the other Bibles because it renders three words (gahenna, hades, tartaros) into "hell" where modern Bibles render them as hell and hades." What are the verses that mention hell in the New Testament? | CARM.org

 

[Nancy]

ok, but one caveat, when you're done, if you get it, you won't be able to hang out much with "Christians" any more without laughing, or crying. Bc they need hell, and you won't :).

the unheard posts in here should be a guide tho, but i have over a year of being basically ignored on this subject, i might be more sensitized to it. i think you even "liked" one of my posts/questions? You maybe imagined the guy was actually going to reply too? on this page or the previous one, i forget

"you won't be able to hang out much with "Christians" any more without laughing, or crying. Bc they need hell, and you won't :)." <--- I do not fear Hell any longer, as Jesus saved me from being separated from God, here on this earth and in Heaven. :)
"i think you even "liked" one of my posts/questions? You maybe imagined the guy was actually going to reply too? on this page or the previous one, i forget"
I think I liked several of your posts, if I liked them or even if I only agreed partially. I never expect a reply to my "likes" lol. I am not sure which post you are referring to but, I could go back to see. I do believe there will be separation from God for those who do not seek the Truth in Jesus as He is the ONLY way, if that is Hell...I dunno...yet. :)

 

[bbyrd009]

In the KJV, there 23 ties in the NT that the word Hell is used...I need to see if they all come from the same Greek word.
Ha, here's your Tartaros: "Depending on the Bible, there is anywhere from 13 to 23 times that the word "hell" appears in English Bibles. The King James has more verses than all the other Bibles because it renders three words (gahenna, hades, tartaros) into "hell" where modern Bibles render them as hell and hades." What are the verses that mention hell in the New Testament? | CARM.org

ppl who seek immortality and resurrection to "heaven" need a "hell" for others to go to, briefly.
The cult of Sol Invictus was brought into congregations to make Christianity more popular, by Constantine

 

[Nancy]

ppl who seek immortality and resurrection to "heaven" need a "hell" for others to go to, briefly.
The cult of Sol Invictus was brought into congregations to make Christianity more popular, by Constantine

I know nothing of The Cult Of Sol, except being a sun worshiper, lol. So, why or how does one go to Hell "briefly"?

 

[bbyrd009]

I could go back to see.

i had post #134 in mind, but between here and there is a virtual Denier's Convention of Believers who will not even address the point, or at least that is my impression

 

[Nancy]

ha of course you aren't going there, you are doing God's will right? The premise was not about where you are going, but whether it even exists as you have been convinced is true. Iow address how Hades mythology has no punishment in the afterlife, and Gehenna is in Erets, so how did you find a place of eternal torture for damned souls in your Bible?

Ah yes, this is the one...and I see there has been no reply from HIH. I do not believe "Hell" is easily understood. There are those mentioned in scripture that will be whipped with many stripes and those who will be whipped with few. It is a huge study on it's own, to be deeply studied with a good Greek Lex. And I would use several bible trans. MPO is that there is indeed an eternal separation from God for those not in Christ though, not sure of what it will entail.