Outer Darkness

[APAK]

Hi APAK

Thank you for your interest.

One must glean the truth by putting together all the different lessons and thoughts throughout the entire counsel of God that is the bible.

God shows us things by comparisons.

Whenever we hear of the faithful...we also hear of the unfaithful. The ones who receive honour are contrasted to they who receive dishonour...etc.

So the subject is vast...far beyond the capacity of any one thread. We can look at the patterns though. :)

Judgment begins and the house of God. And this is to be a hard judgment. There will be rewards AND losses. The parable of the talents illustrates this. Daniel says...Many will awake...some to life and others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Now there are forces on Earth and also in heavenly places that would have us not understand the judgments of God. But woe to those who are at ease in Zion.


Yes. I believe it is so.


I don't understand your BL...?


Wedding garments indicates the saints...the Bride of Christ. The man with no wedding garment was a guest (inhabitant of the saved nations in the next age) who did not seat himself in the lower place when he entered a room. Therefore he was cast out with the workers of iniquity. All this is to serve as a warning.


What is BL?


The talent is a measure of grace. We all have different sized vessels/capacities. So then some of us receive more grace than others. Paul prayed for more grace for people. And we can go to God for more grace.

If we see the talent (grace) as God's righteousness to us....as a gift of grace...then we also need to grow ourselves into a maturity in righteousness. So we are being conformed to the character of Christ in this way.

Those who think that there is nothing to add to God's grace will bury their potential (talent) and remain as immature as when they were first called and given that initial grace.

But the talent is God's (HIS righteousness)...and He will take it back....leaving what we have done with it as OUR inheritance.

So then His righteousness cultivates a righteousness in us...that becomes our own...the righteousness of saints. THIS is the wedding garment.

For more detail please visit my thread on "The Righteousness of God"...or else "the righteous".

Peace and grace to you.

John

Well I see then it does not come with your theory of OD. I was mistake then. The OP was just meant to entice and solicit ideas on the subject. Drum up interest if you will?

IMO your use of grace here and then for talent is technically incorrect. I know I'm splitting hairs here although I believe it's important. Measures of Faith is the product-line the man dealt with and gave to his servants under HIS Grace. (we are saved by the grace of God through the GIFT (the product given and accepted by the servants) of faith,) He wanted interest on his given faith by their increase. He did not want increase in grace. That was the master's department and he could only give it to whom he wanted, and of course he did. The servant with the one talent DID NOT ACCEPT the GIFT of faith to be saved, He ignored or buried it. Instead, even though he was GIVEN grace, as all the servants, he use his own power and his own faith to decide what was important. He rejected the saving faith given by the master.

I guess it's not a major killer here for your purpose as long as you might see my view here. And you know I'm not a label type guy, although this would go against a Calvinistic view. They would agree with grace, first...as you do.

I'm still puzzled though why you had in part added seeming irrelevant subjects as the two Jesus'. It seems you began to take the subject off out of realty. Maybe you were developing your theory 'on the fly,' by getting reactions from folks?


Bless you,

APAK

 

[Episkopos]

The servant with the one talent DID NOT ACCEPT the GIFT of faith to be saved, He ignored or buried it

He did accept it....but he did nothing with it. That's the point of the parable.

You are not understanding that all 3 were His servants. The one who buried his talent was called a wicked" servant"...not an "unbeliever."

Why do you negate the word of God to satisfy a faulty view point? Let the text speak for itself without adding to it.

BTW you didn't answer...what is BL?

 

[APAK]

He did accept it....but he did nothing with it. That's the point of the parable.

You are not understanding that all 3 were His servants. The one who buried his talent was called a wicked" servant"...not an "unbeliever."

Why do you negate the word of God to satisfy a faulty view point? Let the text speak for itself without adding to it.

BTW you didn't answer...what is BL?

I still stand to what I said previously. The faker took the product-gift outwardly of course although NEVER in his heart. THis he never really accepted it due to the lack of faith he never had inside of his FROM GOD. That is the whole point here. God already knew the outcome before the process began. That is why he never trusted his master and called him 'hard' etc. A believer does not do this Epi.

Just because these are all called servants DOES NOT make them all true believers. Corn and tares parable is another parable like this. It is only when over time WE not God, can distinguish between the fake believer and the real ones, as in the Talent parable. There is harmony in what I'm trying to convey here. You have to force things in your view to make them 'come out right.' This would cause all types of problems.

I admit my version is not the most robust although the major actor IMO are spot on.

IMO my view is not faulty at all, your is a forced version.

I agree to disagree.

Oh, BL means Bottom line....

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Episkopos]

I still stand to what I said previously. The faker took the product-gift outwardly of course although NEVER in his heart. THis he never really accepted it due to the lack of faith he never had inside of his FROM GOD. That is the whole point here. God already knew the outcome before the process began. That is why he never trusted his master and called him 'hard' etc. A believer does not do this Epi.

Just because these are all called servants DOES NOT make them all true believers. Corn and tares parable is another parable like this. It is only when over time WE not God, can distinguish between the fake believer and the real ones, as in the Talent parable. There is harmony in what I'm trying to convey here. You have to force things in your view to make them 'come out right.' This would cause all types of problems.

I admit my version is not the most robust although the major actor IMO are spot on.

IMO my view is not faulty at all, your is a forced version.

I agree to disagree.

Oh, BL means Bottom line....

Bless you,

APAK

OK Bottom line....$$$$ (normally)

 

[Jay Ross]

Oh, I have mentioned previously on this forum that the Parable of the Minas and the Talents is not a parable about Christ being the man who goes away to get a kingdom. It is a parable about what Satan is going to organise to counter his ability to influence anyone on the earth while he is imprisoned in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years.

Satan is going to use the power of money while he is imprisoned to continue oppressing people so that they are too busy trying to honour their debts to Satan's Good and faithful servants to even consider the things of God.

In Luke's account, spoken to the crowd of Israelites on their way up to Jerusalem from Jericho to celebrate the Passover six days from when they were journeying to Jerusalem on the Friday afternoon and within this parable Jesus gives a clue that when Satan is imprisoned in the Bottomless pit that they the Israelites/Jews would reject Satan as their King and seek out the Lord to be their King.

If we read both the Parable of the Minas and Talents carefully we see that Satan's wicked servant actually adhered to the Law of God with respect to his treatment of hold the money he had been given by Satan when Stan "went away," and returned all that he had been given back to Satan when Satan returned.

The Outer Darkness mentioned in the Matthew Parable of the Talents is Satan's attempt to protect his lie that he was entitled to the whole harvest by separating the "wicked" servant from being able to influence anyone else about Satan's lie to the population. In the Luke account, Satan has his servants bring all the people that they can find who do not want Satan to be their king over them before him so that he can have them killed in front of him. This fits with what we are told in the Book of Revelation.

The Outer darkness associated with reference to God is where there is no knowledge/understanding of God. In the Parable of the Talents the reference to the outer darkness is made with reference to Satan's attempt to become the earth's main deity such that in this parable the Outer Darkness is where there is no knowledge/understanding of Satan and by sending his "Wicked Servant" to the outer darkness, Satan is protecting his desire of becoming the dominant deity during the end times.

Perhaps if people really understood what is spoken about in the scriptures, then a better understanding would be had.

Shalom

 

[quietthinker]

As I conveyed...

I believe man is a vessel, 2 Tim 2:21

a form (body) of dust, Gen 2:7

God has created, Gen 2:3

a soul God has made, Isa 57:16

A soul with Gods Life, imparted into a mans form, via Gods Breath, Gen 2:7

Man has a natural spirit, (truth), in his heart,
Zech 12::1 / Prov 51:5

The carnal mind corrupts; the Form (body), the soul, the spirit of man, and that corruption maintains, "death", ie. separation from God. Rom 8:6

Death is separation from God, Isa 59:2

Sin against God results in Death, Rom 6:23

Mankind is naturally born in Sin, Psalm 515

God provides a WAY for mankind, To become Forgiven; and his form, his soul, his spirit, his Mind....to become MADE, anew.
1) confess sins, become forgiven. 1 John 1:9
2) God accepts a mans death payment for Sin, when a man is Crucified with Christ. Gal 2:20
3) God restoreth the soul, Psalms 23
4) He gives man HIS Seed, Gal 3:16
5) He gives man a New Heart, Ezek 18:31
6) He gives man a New Spirit, Ezek 18:31
7) He Seals the man unto Himself. 2 Cor 1:22

1) God gives life, and God takes life. Job 1:21
2) God offers eternal life, John 6:51, Eph 5:2,
Heb 10::10
3) The Vessel, (man, soul) that does not accept eternal Life God Offers, Remains Vessels, Dead/Separated from God. Isa 59:2
4) Vessels "Separated" from God;
the body in the grave Deut. 21:23
the living soul in hell Luke 16:22, Luke 16:23

Thus dead body's shall spend time IN the grave, separated from God.

Thus unsaved living souls shall spend time IN hell, separated from God.

THIS IS CALLED "DEATH".

This Death, began from the beginning of mankind, and shall continue until Judgement Day, WHEN all men shall be Judged...a Final Judgement....and Consequence.

The Consequence for the Death, for the Living Soul....
IS a WAITING Period of TIME IN Hell, separated FROM God....Luke 16


"AFTER" a waiting period; JUDGEMENT DAY commences.
Mal 4:1, Roman 2:5, 2:6


"AFTER" Judgement,

Life IS Departed from them, and returned to God.

"AFTER" Judgement, BOTH Unsaved Vessels (BODY and SOUL), are "DESTROYED".
Matt 10:28


"AFTER" Judgement, ALL DEATH, is Destroyed.

So, still you believe Death AND Destruction IS the SAME THING, when Scripture reveals they are Different Events ?

God Bless,
Taken

The premise you are using is flawed Taken. You have taken scriptures and cobbled them together to support your theory. You have not let the scripture speak its own message.

 

[Episkopos]

Oh, I have mentioned previously on this forum that the Parable of the Minas and the Talents is not a parable about Christ being the man who goes away to get a kingdom. It is a parable about what Satan is going to organise to counter his ability to influence anyone on the earth while he is imprisoned in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years.

Satan is going to use the power of money while he is imprisoned to continue oppressing people so that they are too busy trying to honour their debts to Satan's Good and faithful servants to even consider the things of God.

In Luke's account, spoken to the crowd of Israelites on their way up to Jerusalem from Jericho to celebrate the Passover six days from when they were journeying to Jerusalem on the Friday afternoon and within this parable Jesus gives a clue that when Satan is imprisoned in the Bottomless pit that they the Israelites/Jews would reject Satan as their King and seek out the Lord to be their King.

If we read both the Parable of the Minas and Talents carefully we see that Satan's wicked servant actually adhered to the Law of God with respect to his treatment of hold the money he had been given by Satan when Stan "went away," and returned all that he had been given back to Satan when Satan returned.

The Outer Darkness mentioned in the Matthew Parable of the Talents is Satan's attempt to protect his lie that he was entitled to the whole harvest by separating the "wicked" servant from being able to influence anyone else about Satan's lie to the population. In the Luke account, Satan has his servants bring all the people that they can find who do not want Satan to be their king over them before him so that he can have them killed in front of him. This fits with what we are told in the Book of Revelation.

The Outer darkness associated with reference to God is where there is no knowledge/understanding of God. In the Parable of the Talents the reference to the outer darkness is made with reference to Satan's attempt to become the earth's main deity such that in this parable the Outer Darkness is where there is no knowledge/understanding of Satan and by sending his "Wicked Servant" to the outer darkness, Satan is protecting his desire of becoming the dominant deity during the end times.

Perhaps if people really understood what is spoken about in the scriptures, then a better understanding would be had.

Shalom

Some people...

 

[Taken]

The premise you are using is flawed Taken. You have taken scriptures and cobbled them together to support your theory. You have not let the scripture speak its own message.

The accusations you are making are flawed quietthinker. You have ignored Scriptural facts to support your theory.

Scriptures teach "IF" (a hypothesis)
followed by "THEN" (a conclusion).....
In Elementary Terms Is Called;
A Conditional Statement.

IF a man Rejects God,
THEN the Whole of that man will Die.

IF a man Freely Chooses Death.
THEN THAT man shall be Destroyed.

The Hypothesis (Death)
"and" Conclusion (Destruction)
Are not the same things, as you teach.

Death, is a "mans" Choice (action).
Destruction, is "Gods" Truth (RE-action).

Matt 12:30
He that IS NOT "with me" IS AGAINST "me"..

"IF" a man is NOT "with the Lord God"
"THEN" the man "IS AGAINST The Lord God"

"IF" a man "IS AGAINST" The Lord God...
"THEN" that man shall be destroyed.

Matt 10:28
..."destroy" "BOTH". body And soul IN hell.

On the Flip side...

"IF" a man (Chooses) TO BE "WITH"
Thee Lord God,
"THEN" "that man" shall BE "MADE"...WHOLE;
BODY "and" SOUL "and" SPIRIT.

Knowledge is the Beginning...
Understanding the Knowledge, is Paramount.

I am not to blame for your lack of understanding, regardless of how many times you make accusations AGAINST me.

TRUST the TRUTH of Gods Knowledge and Seek Him for His Understanding of His Knowledge.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Jay Ross]

Some people...

Yes I know, they have got these parables turned upside down and their understanding of the parables bears no resemblance to the original intended contextual message.