Overcoming Doubt?

[aspen]

Really? It's a vague feeling?
Wonder if anyone else would agree...

I tend to doubt myself/purpose.....i am fairly confident God knows what is going on

 

[Frank Lee]

Faith, a measure of it is given to every believer. It is also a spiritual gift where a person is given a greater amount of faith than the normal amount - whatever that is.

Faith is the main ingredient of the other spiritual gifts such as healing, prophesying, miracle working and so forth.

Faith is increased as it is used. As each of us exercises faith in different areas we grow more and more confident as we see God move on our words and actions.

It is as other gifts of God a stair step repetitive learning process. One of my favorite repetitive stair step learning exercises from the Lord is stated in these few scriptures.

Romans 5:2-5 KJVS
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. [3] And not only so , but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; [4] And patience, experience; and experience, hope: [5] And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.




Like training for anything we learn by rote, by repeating the exercise again and again. When we fail or fall short I should say at something the Lord repeats the learning process as we are required to have faith in real life situations over and over.

As in the picture first comes the trouble. We learn patience by having to wait for God's deliverance again and again. We become experienced in seeing, considering many ways that the Lord operates. After multitudes of experiences seeing God move for our deliverance we learn to hope when trouble again rears it's ugly face. We have been taught how faithful God is by seeing Him bail us out time after time. We have read of His faithfulness in the Scriptures but after walking through this sequence of faith steps again and again we see with our eyes His complete wonderful faithfulness as He honors His word and loving nature over and over!

It seems so strange to consider that Jesus had to learn anything at all. But;
Hebrews 5:8-9 KJVS
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; [9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Seeing how Jesus is the pattern for us all and we are admonished in the old testament to "see that you make everything after the pattern".

 

[Helen]

@Frank Lee Excellent post brother! Well said.

 

[Windmillcharge]

While it was perhaps a case of alienation from God, it does seem like a moment of doubt nonetheless. I wouldn't consider myself 'forsaken' if I didn't have any doubt, especially if I knew that I was sent here to be the lamb slain for our sins, but that's just me.

Think for a moment.
Jesus the second person of the Trinity, cries out My God ( the Father) Why have you foresaken me!

Is the a cry meaning, Oh I wonder if God really does care for me, or a cry resulting from the union of the Trinity being ripped apart. That Jesus at that moment was no longer aware of Gods presence with him.

 

[bbyrd009]

Really? It's a vague feeling?
Wonder if anyone else would agree...

ya, i'm not sure, guess it varies, but when the heart and mind are in, but the gut is out, i'm not sure how one would even describe that? "It seems good (mind), and i want to do it (heart), but?"

 

[GodsGrace]

Think for a moment.
Jesus the second person of the Trinity, cries out My God ( the Father) Why have you foresaken me!

Is the a cry meaning, Oh I wonder if God really does care for me, or a cry resulting from the union of the Trinity being ripped apart. That Jesus at that moment was no longer aware of Gods presence with him.

It's either that, or the beginning of psalm 22.
We can't know for sure.

 

[Dcopymope]

Think for a moment.
Jesus the second person of the Trinity, cries out My God ( the Father) Why have you foresaken me!

Is the a cry meaning, Oh I wonder if God really does care for me, or a cry resulting from the union of the Trinity being ripped apart. That Jesus at that moment was no longer aware of Gods presence with him.

It's either that, or the beginning of psalm 22.
We can't know for sure.

(Psalms 22:1-5) "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? {2} O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent. {3} But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel. {4} Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them. {5} They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded."

Again, he felt forsaken despite him knowing full well that he was sent into this world for the sole purpose of being the sacrifice to start with. For him to even utter such a thing just sounds like a moment of doubt to me, but again, that's just how I see it. If the word felt forsaken, then you can imagine how many Christians feel whenever they are going through troubling times. It will be very hard for you not to feel forsaken sometimes.

 

[GodsGrace]

Again, he felt forsaken despite him knowing full well that he was sent into this world for the sole purpose of being the sacrifice to start with. For him to even utter such a thing just sounds like a moment of doubt to me, but again, that's just how I see it. If the word felt forsaken, then you can imagine how many Christians feel whenever they are going through troubling times. It will be very hard for you not to feel forsaken sometimes.

I do believe that we will never feel like Jesus did.
All the sins of the world were laid upon His shoulder and heart.
Remember when He cried over Jerusalem? Imagine how this must have felt.
Mathew 23:37

Psalm 22 does end on a happy note...


1My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?
Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning.

2O my God, I cry by day, but You do not answer;
And by night, but I have no rest.

3Yet You are holy,
O You who are enthroned upon the praises of Israel.

4In You our fathers trusted;
They trusted and You delivered them.

5To You they cried out and were delivered;
In You they trusted and were not disappointed.

6But I am a worm and not a man,
A reproach of men and despised by the people.

7All who see me sneer at me;
They separate with the lip, they wag the head, saying,

8“Commit yourself to the LORD; let Him deliver him;
Let Him rescue him, because He delights in him.”

9Yet You are He who brought me forth from the womb;
You made me trust when upon my mother’s breasts.

10Upon You I was cast from birth;
You have been my God from my mother’s womb.

11Be not far from me, for trouble is near;
For there is none to help.

12Many bulls have surrounded me;
Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me.

13They open wide their mouth at me,
As a ravening and a roaring lion.

14I am poured out like water,
And all my bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It is melted within me.

15My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And my tongue cleaves to my jaws;
And You lay me in the dust of death.

16For dogs have surrounded me;
A band of evildoers has encompassed me;
They pierced my hands and my feet.

17I can count all my bones.
They look, they stare at me;

18They divide my garments among them,
And for my clothing they cast lots.

19But You, O LORD, be not far off;
O You my help, hasten to my assistance.

20Deliver my soul from the sword,
My only life from the power of the dog.

21Save me from the lion’s mouth;
From the horns of the wild oxen You answer me.

22I will tell of Your name to my brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will praise You.

23You who fear the LORD, praise Him;
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And stand in awe of Him, all you descendants of Israel.

24For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from him;
But when he cried to Him for help, He heard.

25From You comes my praise in the great assembly;
I shall pay my vows before those who fear Him.

26The afflicted will eat and be satisfied;
Those who seek Him will praise the LORD.
Let your heart live forever!

27All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.

28For the kingdom is the LORD’S
And He rules over the nations.

29All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship,
All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep his soul alive.

30Posterity will serve Him;
It will be told of the Lord to the coming generation.

31They will come and will declare His righteousness
To a people who will be born, that He has performed it.



My only other comment is that Jesus' sole purpose was not to be our propitiation...
Jesus also wanted to set up God's Kingdom on earth. This is why He spoke about it so much.
John 3:3

 

[Dcopymope]

I do believe that we will never feel like Jesus did.
All the sins of the world were laid upon His shoulder and heart.
Remember when He cried over Jerusalem? Imagine how this must have felt.
Mathew 23:37

Psalm 22 does end on a happy note...


1My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?
Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning.

2O my God, I cry by day, but You do not answer;
And by night, but I have no rest.

3Yet You are holy,
O You who are enthroned upon the praises of Israel.

4In You our fathers trusted;
They trusted and You delivered them.

5To You they cried out and were delivered;
In You they trusted and were not disappointed.

6But I am a worm and not a man,
A reproach of men and despised by the people.

7All who see me sneer at me;
They separate with the lip, they wag the head, saying,

8“Commit yourself to the LORD; let Him deliver him;
Let Him rescue him, because He delights in him.”

9Yet You are He who brought me forth from the womb;
You made me trust when upon my mother’s breasts.

10Upon You I was cast from birth;
You have been my God from my mother’s womb.

11Be not far from me, for trouble is near;
For there is none to help.

12Many bulls have surrounded me;
Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me.

13They open wide their mouth at me,
As a ravening and a roaring lion.

14I am poured out like water,
And all my bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It is melted within me.

15My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And my tongue cleaves to my jaws;
And You lay me in the dust of death.

16For dogs have surrounded me;
A band of evildoers has encompassed me;
They pierced my hands and my feet.

17I can count all my bones.
They look, they stare at me;

18They divide my garments among them,
And for my clothing they cast lots.

19But You, O LORD, be not far off;
O You my help, hasten to my assistance.

20Deliver my soul from the sword,
My only life from the power of the dog.

21Save me from the lion’s mouth;
From the horns of the wild oxen You answer me.

22I will tell of Your name to my brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will praise You.

23You who fear the LORD, praise Him;
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And stand in awe of Him, all you descendants of Israel.

24For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from him;
But when he cried to Him for help, He heard.

25From You comes my praise in the great assembly;
I shall pay my vows before those who fear Him.

26The afflicted will eat and be satisfied;
Those who seek Him will praise the LORD.
Let your heart live forever!

27All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.

28For the kingdom is the LORD’S
And He rules over the nations.

29All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship,
All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep his soul alive.

30Posterity will serve Him;
It will be told of the Lord to the coming generation.

31They will come and will declare His righteousness
To a people who will be born, that He has performed it.



My only other comment is that Jesus' sole purpose was not to be our propitiation...
Jesus also wanted to set up God's Kingdom on earth. This is why He spoke about it so much.
John 3:3

True, but the kingdom wasn't happening without his sacrifice. Its been fulfilled in part because Jesus is the kingdom, and will be fulfilled in full at the appointed time. Without his sacrifice, there is no new Jerusalem for instance, or new heaven and new earth.

 

[GodsGrace]

True, but the kingdom wasn't happening without his sacrifice. Its been fulfilled in part because Jesus is the kingdom, and will be fulfilled in full at the appointed time. Without his sacrifice, there is no new Jerusalem for instance, or new heaven and new earth.

I don't know what you mean by "it has been fulfilled in part".
I think you're talking about the Kingdom to come at the end of ages, and I'm talking about the Kingdom of God right now.

Jesus' mission was two-fold:
1. Salvation as God had planned from the beginning.
2. To establish the Kingdom of God right here right now.

The New Jerusalem and the New Earth will come at the end of the age.

 

[Dcopymope]

I don't know what you mean by "it has been fulfilled in part".
I think you're talking about the Kingdom to come at the end of ages, and I'm talking about the Kingdom of God right now.

Jesus' mission was two-fold:
1. Salvation as God had planned from the beginning.
2. To establish the Kingdom of God right here right now.

The New Jerusalem and the New Earth will come at the end of the age.

That's what I mean by it being fulfilled in part, either way, there is no kingdom without Jesus.

 

[amadeus]

Doubt is not sin...it is a nullifier of faith in action.
" Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not.." He didn't say "You wicked sinners.."

We all have doubts from time to time. The victory is to have more faith than doubt.
We do it, ( whatever is required) even when afraid ..faith in the face of fear wins the day.

In spite of the doubts we must move on as if we knew. Consider:

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb 11:1

In spite of these warnings not to do so we [who is not included in this "we"] at times seem to insist that we must know certain things about our walk with God. The real unbeliever will come to us with the same kind of insistence demanding proof, when the only real proof is in our hearts. Can they see it in us? If they are really hungry and thirsty for the right things, I believe that they can.

As to overcoming such doubts another very familiar scripture comes to mind:

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Rom 10:17

And then do we not confuse or hinder ourselves by arguing the details of what is or is not the Word of God?

 

[Helen]

Really? It's a vague feeling?
Wonder if anyone else would agree...

Yes I agree.
On the positive use of doubt...not doubting in the face or faith...but when discerning comes into play...it is that unease on the inside which causes us to look to the Lord in confirmation "if this thing being, done, said , or suggested by another " if of God or not... A vague inner feeling , which may grow stronger the vague. Watchman Nee always said- " Check on the inside"
You will not like it, any more than you like " looking unto Jesus"
But in christianese we say "The inner witness". Or the 'inner man', spiritual intuition, either witnesses something is of God, or has some doubt regarding it.
So yes, I would an inner gut doubt is something that can keep us out of trouble.
Yes, I know, I go all the way around a mulberry bush just to say something simple.

 

[bbyrd009]

The New Jerusalem and the New Earth will come at the end of the age.

another way of saying that the kingdom will come when Christ is revealed in you, toward the end of your age imo

 

[bbyrd009]

And then do we not confuse or hinder ourselves by arguing the details of what is or is not the Word of God?

how so? what argument? If you think the Book is the Word, you are confused and hindered already, seems to me.

 

[bbyrd009]

The New Jerusalem and the New Earth will come at the end of the age.

describe your life to someone from even 100 years ago, and see what their belief is concerning when the New Earth showed up lol

 

[GodsGrace]

another way of saying that the kingdom will come when Christ is revealed in you, toward the end of your age imo

Yes. That too.

But the Kingdom is NOW!
Jesus came to set up HIS Kingdom NOW.
Mathew 4:17

 

[GodsGrace]

describe your life to someone from even 100 years ago, and see what their belief is concerning when the New Earth showed up lol

Jesus meant it to be THEN, 100 years ago.
Or 2,000 years ago.

What do YOU say?

 

[amadeus]

how so? what argument? If you think the Book is the Word, you are confused and hindered already, seems to me.

I believe that that is what I meant. People have faith in a printed page instead of the Living Word. Just what I am saying about it here may draw criticism from some on this forum. To be clear, the printed Bible is dead until it is quickened in someone. [If there are attacks, so be it.]