Partial preterisims and revelation chapter by chapter part 1

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,850
3,271
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well i did mention the gifts and some of the prophets were killed but don’t you see revelation is all about Jesus and the law and the prophets pointed to Jesus
Marty, Preterism in their many claims of symbolic fulfillment is laughable, and I say that in love

Every obstacle to 70AD fulfillment is removed in symbolic allegory, using the rubber ruler

The clear second coming of Jesus in the clouds of heaven, human eyes on earth watch in Matthew 24:30, and this turns into a symbolic preterist claim of judgement upon Israel, really

All to make 70AD fulfillment fit, thats sad

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord
 
Last edited:

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,302
897
113
54
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Marty, Preterism in their many claims of symbolic fulfillment is laughable, and I say that in love

Every obstacle to 70AD fulfillment is removed in symbolic allegory, using the rubber ruler

The clear second coming of Jesus in the clouds of heaven, human eyes on earth watch in Matthew 24:30, and this turns into a preterist claim of judgement upon Israel, really

All to make 70AD fulfillment fit, thats sad

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

So how come Jesus is in the clouds in Matthew 24 but no horse is mentioned. Then in but Revelation 19 and Jesus is riding on a horse but no clouds are mentioned?

The only direction in the bible that Jesus is riding on a cloud is too heaven not to the earth. See Daniel 7
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,850
3,271
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So how come Jesus is in the clouds in Matthew 24 but no horse is mentioned. Then in but Revelation 19 and Jesus is riding on a horse but no clouds are mentioned?

The only direction in the bible that Jesus is riding on a cloud is too heaven not to the earth. See Daniel 7
Marty Matthew 24:29-31 is very clear, if your not interested in validating 70AD fulfillment

The Second Coming And Resurrection, Simple, Clear, Easy To Understand

We Will Disagree
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,302
897
113
54
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Marty Matthew 24:29-31 is very clear, if your not interested in validating 70AD fulfillment

The Second Coming And Resurrection, Simple, Clear, Easy To Understand

We Will Disagree

But what you just said didn’t have any substance it’s just a comment and you didn’t address the differences as you do think that they are literal if so then how come the differences?
 
Last edited:

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,850
3,271
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
But what you just said didn’t have any substance it’s just a comment and you didn’t address the differences as you do think that they are literal if so then how come the differences?
Marty the second coming is seen throughout the bible, while some instances give a partial explanation, while others a full, you know better
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,302
897
113
54
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Marty the second coming is seen throughout the bible, while some instances give a partial explanation, while others a full, you know better

Or some of them are coming in judgements like the verse below

Revelation 2:16
16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Sounds a lot like revelation 19 doesn’t it?
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,850
3,271
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Or some of them are coming in judgements like the verse below

Revelation 2:16
16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Sounds a lot like revelation 19 doesn’t it?
Amazing how far one will go in removal of the literal second coming seen in Matthew 24:30

All to maintain 70AD fulfillment in Daniel's AOD in Matthew 24:15
 

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,850
3,271
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Or some of them are coming in judgements like the verse below

Revelation 2:16
16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Sounds a lot like revelation 19 doesn’t it?
The battle seen in Revelation Chapters 16, 19, 20 are all the same "Future" event in parallel teachings, yes this represents the second coming of Jesus Christ to the battle

Revelation 11:18 & 20:11-15 is the same final judgement in parallel teachings
 
Last edited:

Truth7t7

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2014
10,850
3,271
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Or some of them are coming in judgements like the verse below

Revelation 2:16
16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Sounds a lot like revelation 19 doesn’t it?
Marty you stated that mortal humans will be ruled over in a reign on earth, where is that in the bible?
 
Last edited:

michaelvpardo

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2011
4,204
1,734
113
67
East Stroudsburg, PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
How do you know when revelation was written?

Do you realize that the symbolism in Revelation is tied to and explained to many different parts in the Old Testament?

It’s the revelation of Jesus Christ as in who he is and what He did. Jesus is God and He ushered in the new covenant that what revelation is really about. It’s a book of transition for the old covenant to the new covenant and from the earthly Jerusalem to the new Jerusalem.
Funny, I thought the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ was about the Revelation of God in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ. I wonder how I ever came up with that idea?
 

michaelvpardo

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2011
4,204
1,734
113
67
East Stroudsburg, PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That was a perfect and brief outline of Chapter 4. That is about all I can agree with!
The rest ... amazes me. I always knew that Preterists and Partial Preterists symbolize the book of Revelation, but I never looked into the details or realized the extant of symbolism used.
Tell me, what other book in the Bible is viewed almost entirely symbolically? God gave us His word for us to literally understand. He wants to communicate to us directly by using language that we nirmally communicate with and understand, not an entire book of symbolism. Certainly symbolism is used but is usually explained in scripture. Some people symbolize the entire book of Genesis too, to accommodate their Theistic Evolution Theory. That is bad theology too.
Was God's letters to the Seven Churches, messages to actual churches that existed? Yes they were. What message can we get from those letters? Jesus points out false doctrines, sins, lack of love and life and general works/ fruit. He chastises them and tells them to repent or else. So we see these same conditions in our present day churches and ourselves.
Was God's message in Revelation concerning anything that happened in Jerusalem in 70 AD? No, how it be, John wrote the book of Revelation around 95 AD.
There was no need to give us visions of something that happened in the past.

That is really what Preterists must deny and altar more than any one fact for their whole symbolic view to work, the date Revelation was written. If it was written in 95 AD, their whole theology crumbles. Then it would be just historical and literal, no need for symbolic interpretations.
They must deny the date and then proceed to deny every single event that God has given us that describes the Great Tribulation, the Second Coming of Christ and afterwards, His Millennial Kingdom. This is a blatant denial of scripture. You read it, but you did not receive a blessing did you? Because you distorted it - no blessing for that!

I have to thank you for exposing this theology and laying it out for all to see.

All you have to do is wait a little longer. You will begin to see all these events literally happen. I believe Satan is now in control of this One World Government. We have seen our freedoms stepped on. No other time in history have we seen every country comply to lockdowns, masks, social distancing, dictating what his knees is essential and which ones are not and soon forced vaccinations.
It is the "beginning of sorrows" spoken about in Matthew 24. It precedes the GT ... or we are already in it.
The four horsemen are coming, the Seals are being opened or have been already, the Trumpets will sound and the Bowls of God's wrath will be released - ON THE ENTIRE WORLD -- NOT JERUSALEM 7O AD.
Judgment is coming to all nations. All nations will come against Jerusalem, not ROME OF 70 AD. Wars, famines, pestilence, earthquakes in various places, catastrophic events, stress throughout the entire world never experienced amoung such a vast population of 7.8 billion people.
Just wait a little while longer. This Great Reset is part of it. This pandemic is part of it. The coming war in the Middle East of ten nations against Israel will be a major part if it.
You like symbolism. here is some. Check this out. The Rider on the White Horse was given a crown (corona virus). It does not say he was wearing it. Many believe this Rider is the Antichrist. The Rider goes out to conquer the world. Isn't that what this pandemic has done?
How does Satan work? Through lies, deception, fear and then control. Temptation too on an individual basis. But how could he control the entire world unless he caused fear. People comply when they are afraid.
I never thought it would start this way, but it is actually brilliant, its working. Not giving him praise, just wow. He doesn't even have to have people believe in him to control them.
He is using people like the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Soros, Gates, Zukerberg, to do his thing. What's in the vaccine? More than you think. Just wait a little longer for your whole symbolic house of cards to collapse as you see literal scenario unfold.
The entire book is a vision with the exception of the introduction and visions are like dreams, filled with symbolism. That's why interpretation is particularly difficult.
As an example, consider Peter's rooftop vision of a sheet opening up filled with all sorts of "unclean" foods and the instruction "kill and eat".
Peter immediately thought this was about kashrut law, but he was rebuked:15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” Acts 10:15
In the context of the chapter, the vision wasn't about foods, but about going to the home of a gentile, to share Christ with a Roman Centurion and his household, and not treating believing gentiles as unclean.
No symbolism can be understood without proper context.
 

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
3,862
1,896
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The entire book is a vision with the exception of the introduction and visions are like dreams, filled with symbolism. That's why interpretation is particularly difficult.
As an example, consider Peter's rooftop vision of a sheet opening up filled with all sorts of "unclean" foods and the instruction "kill and eat".
Peter immediately thought this was about kashrut law, but he was rebuked:15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” Acts 10:15
In the context of the chapter, the vision wasn't about foods, but about going to the home of a gentile, to share Christ with a Roman Centurion and his household, and not treating believing gentiles as unclean.
No symbolism can be understood without proper context.
Dreams are different than visions. A vision describing the New Jerusalem is I believe exactly what it will look like. The letters to the Seven Churches were not symbolic. They described particular individuals, doctrines, sin and the orders to repent from those things specifically.
Symbolism is usually explained in scripture like the dragon with seven heads and ten horns.
All the events will take place and they are specific: pestilence, wars, famines, fire and brimstone, judgments resulting in over half the population of the planet DEAD.
Sorry, I take much of Revelation literally.
 

michaelvpardo

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2011
4,204
1,734
113
67
East Stroudsburg, PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Dreams are different than visions. A vision describing the New Jerusalem is I believe exactly what it will look like. The letters to the Seven Churches were not symbolic. They described particular individuals, doctrines, sin and the orders to repent from those things specifically.
Symbolism is usually explained in scripture like the dragon with seven heads and ten horns.
All the events will take place and they are specific: pestilence, wars, famines, fire and brimstone, judgments resulting in over half the population of the planet DEAD.
Sorry, I take much of Revelation literally.
You don't have to apologize to me for believing what the scripture says. I may be mistaken about John's experience "in the spirit", assuming that what he saw was a vision, but if not a vision what was he seeing? While it's possible for God to show people glimpses of time, what would someone from the iron age make of images of people entering and driving an automobile or an airplane?
In order for prophetic visions to make any sense to the intended recipients, in order to record it with language upon stone or parchment, the visions have to be of familiar things that can be at least described by the prophet and convey meaning.
While some people believe that the book of the Revelation was prophetically fulfilled in the 1st century, no one in the first century could've gotten a glimpse of our times and technology and had a clue about what we were doing or what our actions meant. What would John have made of someone popping virtual bubble wrap on their cellphone?
I can no longer recognize the town that I grew up in and left almost 40 years ago. I can't imagine what it would look like 2000 years from now.
For symbolic language to be pertinent, the meaning of the symbols must remain recognizable over time, but even the meaning of symbols change over time, so their meaning again has to be understood in context and through usage.
We understand from scripture that the prophets themselves didn't grasp the meaning of all they prophesied. This was simply because the context of future events is rarely the same, if ever, as the context familiar to the prophet.
In other words, prophetic vision is really only understood after the prophecy is fulfilled or in the process of being fulfilled.
We don't have prophesy to look for what's going to happen, but to recognize when it does. The Pharisees were actually looking for and anticipating a messiah based upon biblical prophecy, but missed Him when He showed up, or decided that they just didn't want Him and what He taught.
Prophesy is how God validated His word, even the resurrection of the Lord was foretold in scripture.
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,302
897
113
54
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Funny, I thought the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ was about the Revelation of God in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ. I wonder how I ever came up with that idea?

What you wrote was the purpose of the gospels revelation is the revelation of Jesus
 

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
3,862
1,896
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I may be mistaken about John's experience "in the spirit", assuming that what he saw was a vision, but if not a vision what was he seeing? While it's possible for God to show people glimpses of time, what would someone from the iron age make of images of people entering and driving an automobile or an airplane?
In order for prophetic visions to make any sense to the intended recipients, in order to record it with language upon stone or parchment, the visions have to be of familiar things that can be at least described by the prophet and convey meaning.
It was a vision, not of modern technology. Earthquakes, famine, volcanic eruptions,.mointainsnbeimg thrown into the sea causing death to fish and destruction of vessels from tsunamis hailstomes, 1/3 of the planet on fire, missiles or meteor showers look like stars falling. Thise are all things they could understand. Demon locusts that sting like scorpions ith faces like men that torture men for five months is not modern technology, although I think Hal Lindsey thought they were helicopters. Later they transform and ride horses as well, 200 million if them thay come out out if the Abyss.
I think Stephen King did a movie with those demon locust creatures - creepy.