Partial preterisims and revelation chapter by chapter part 1

[Marty fox]

Yes, women were used throughout Scripture. That is not the point. The point is there are not 13 tribes of Israel.

I still have no idea why you are bringing this up the 12 tribes?

All I am saying is that the church was made up of the faithful before and after the cross of both Jew and gentile and God used the 12 apostles and the 12 tribes to give us His message

 

[Marty fox]

Now where is the prophecy that explains the Romans doing the will of God?

Well I think this was one but the verse I quoted you in Luke 19 was here it is again


Luke 19:43-44
41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

Jesus said the reason was that the Jews didn’t recognize that God came to them as they rejected and killed Him. Thus God used the Romans to punish them

 

[Timtofly]

I still have no idea why you are bringing this up the 12 tribes?

All I am saying is that the church was made up of the faithful before and after the cross of both Jew and gentile and God used the 12 apostles and the 12 tribes to give us His message

The discussion was why the 144k are male virgins, and not just an elaborate vague symbolism.

 

[Timtofly]

Well I think this was one but the verse I quoted you in Luke 19 was here it is again


Luke 19:43-44
41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

Jesus said the reason was that the Jews didn’t recognize that God came to them as they rejected and killed Him. Thus God used the Romans to punish them

The Romans were not named. Israel has more enemies than just Rome.

If posters here are going to hold people to a strict interpretation without conjecture or private opinion and commentary, it could be very restrictive to a plain reading of God's Word. Why are some thoughts welcomed, but other thoughts are like pulling teeth. Both are obvious, no?

 

[Marty fox]

The Romans were not named. Israel has more enemies than just Rome.

If posters here are going to hold people to a strict interpretation without conjecture or private opinion and commentary, it could be very restrictive to a plain reading of God's Word. Why are some thoughts welcomed, but other thoughts are like pulling teeth. Both are obvious, no?

But the Romans did do what Jesus said would happen

 

[Jay Ross]

Where is Roman in this passage of condemnation of the Army that scattered Judah to the four corners of the earth?

Joel 3:1-6: -

3:1 "For behold, in those days and at that time,

When I bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem,​

2 I will also gather all nations,

And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat;
And I will enter into judgment with them there
On account of My people, My heritage Israel,
Whom they have scattered among the nations;
They have also divided up My land.​

3 They have cast lots for My people,

Have given a boy as payment for a harlot,
And sold a girl for wine, that they may drink.
​

4 "Indeed, what have you to do with Me,

O Tyre and Sidon, and all the coasts of Philistia?
Will you retaliate against Me?
But if you retaliate against Me,
Swiftly and speedily I will return your retaliation upon your own head;​

5 Because you have taken My silver and My gold,

And have carried into your temples My prized possessions.​

6 Also the people of Judah and the people of Jerusalem

You have sold to the Greeks,
That you may remove them far from their borders.​

NKJV​

Why has God not identified the Roman Empire in verse 6 above? Is not the Roman Empire one of the four horns that grew up upon the head of the Goat when the original single horn was broken off with the untimely death of Alexandra the Great?

Shalom

 

[Marty fox]

Where is Roman in this passage of condemnation of the Army that scattered Judah to the four corners of the earth?

Joel 3:1-6: -

3:1 "For behold, in those days and at that time,

When I bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem,​

2 I will also gather all nations,

And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat;
And I will enter into judgment with them there
On account of My people, My heritage Israel,
Whom they have scattered among the nations;
They have also divided up My land.​

3 They have cast lots for My people,

Have given a boy as payment for a harlot,
And sold a girl for wine, that they may drink.
​

4 "Indeed, what have you to do with Me,

O Tyre and Sidon, and all the coasts of Philistia?
Will you retaliate against Me?
But if you retaliate against Me,
Swiftly and speedily I will return your retaliation upon your own head;​

5 Because you have taken My silver and My gold,

And have carried into your temples My prized possessions.​

6 Also the people of Judah and the people of Jerusalem

You have sold to the Greeks,
That you may remove them far from their borders.​

NKJV​

Why has God not identified the Roman Empire in verse 6 above? Is not the Roman Empire one of the four horns that grew up upon the head of the Goat when the original single horn was broken off with the untimely death of Alexandra the Great?

Shalom

No they were the 4 generals who became kings over 4 sectors of the Grecian empire after Alexander the Great.

Verse 6 was about Tyre selling the Jews to the Greeks

 

[Jay Ross]

No they were the 4 generals who became kings over 4 sectors of the Grecian empire after Alexander the Great.

Verse 6 was about Tyre selling the Jews to the Greeks

I am so sorry, you have studied well to come to your conclusions and understandings. Who would dare question your wisdom?

It seems to me that you have missed my point in your understanding of historical matters as to how the Roman Empire came into being from being a part of the divided Grecian empire until it had greater dominance, over Israel, but not over all of the land that came under the divided Grecian Empires.

Shalom

 

[Marty fox]

I am so sorry, you have studied well to come to your conclusions and understandings. Who would dare question your wisdom?

It seems to me that you have missed my point in your understanding of historical matters as to how the Roman Empire came into being from being a part of the divided Grecian empire until it had greater dominance, over Israel, but not over all of the land that came under the divided Grecian Empires.

Shalom

I guess you’re being sarcastic and sorry if your not but why be that way if I corrected you?

Yes I know where Rome came from but my point is that Peter in Acts chapter 2 states that he was in the days of Joel chapter 2 and Jerusalem was destroyed by Rome shortly after Peter said those words.

God doesn’t usually name countries in judgement prophecies

 

[Jay Ross]

I guess you’re being sarcastic and sorry if your not but why be that way if I corrected you?

Yes I know where Rome came from but my point is that Peter in Acts chapter 2 states that he was in the days of Joel chapter 2 and Jerusalem was destroyed by Rome shortly after Peter said those words.

God doesn’t usually name countries in judgement prophecies

The problem was that I was offering your a very different understanding to what you were presenting.

In the Joel passage, who is the "you" that sold the people of Judah and Jerusalem to the Greeks. What symbolism is in play in the passage I quoted?

Shalom

 

[Timtofly]

But the Romans did do what Jesus said would happen

That is not the point of my post. I never denied the Romans were the ones. I am denying that 70AD is proof all of Revelation has been fulfilled. We do not have to guess it was the Romans who destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. What is being guessed at, is the fulfillment of Revelation and the Second Coming.

 

[Marty fox]

That is not the point of my post. I never denied the Romans were the ones. I am denying that 70AD is proof all of Revelation has been fulfilled. We do not have to guess it was the Romans who destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. What is being guessed at, is the fulfillment of Revelation and the Second Coming.

I have never claimed that all of revelation has been fulfilled because it hasn’t

 

[Truth7t7]

I have never claimed that all of revelation has been fulfilled because it hasn’t

What has been fulfilled, how, when, and where?

 

[Marty fox]

What has been fulfilled, how, when, and where?

Im sure that you know most of my views but still to come

The ending of the thousand years

The rapture at the 7th trumpet at the second coming and the defeat of satan

The great white throne judgement day at the resurrection

The coming down of the new Jerusalem for us to dwell with god forever

 

[Truth7t7]

Im sure that you know most of my views but still to come

The ending of the thousand years

The rapture at the 7th trumpet at the second coming and the defeat of satan

The great white throne judgement day at the resurrection

The coming down of the new Jerusalem for us to dwell with god forever

Thanks Marty

1. How is the (Two Witnesses) of Revelation 11 fulfilled

2. How is (The Beast) in Revelation 13 fulfilled?

3. How are the plagues in Revelation 16 fulfilled?

 

[Marty fox]

Thanks Marty

1. How is the (Two Witnesses) of Revelation 11 fulfilled

2. How is (The Beast) in Revelation 13 fulfilled?

3. How are the plagues in Revelation 16 fulfilled?

1 Symbolic for the law and the prophets

2 A demonic being influencing Rome and it’s leaders mainly Nero

3 The events leading up to the destruction of Babylon the great Jerusalem

 

[Truth7t7]

1 Symbolic for the law and the prophets

2 A demonic being influencing Rome and it’s leaders mainly Nero

3 The events leading up to the destruction of Babylon the great Jerusalem

Thanks for the reply Marty

1. Revelation 11 teaches physical men that have bodies that will die, lay in a physical street of Jerusalem, that will be raised in the sight of the world making merry at their deaths, to symbolize this away is error

2. That's a new one, the main claims are Nero or Titus, put the claim on a demon who cant see death allowing it to fit, because the Lord destroys the Antichrist at the second coming

3. The plagues of Revelation 16:1-11 aren't recorded in history, and it depicts the world, and isn't localized to Jerusalem

Marty you have stated you believe the plagues in Egypt were literal, but you deny the plagues seen in Revelation 16:1-11 will come upon the earth as written, why?

To maintain 70AD fulfillment at any cost, if there's a problem, symbolize it into oblivian

Would removing the literal, and changing it into symbolic be taking away from God's words?

Revelation 16:1KJV
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Conclusion: The preterist argument in 66-70AD fulfillment is "very weak" at its very foundation, obstacles that disprove the teaching are removed through symbolic allegory, the teaching is irrational and borderline in the land of Aesops fables

Couple that with the evidence of the Revelation being written in 95-96AD, preterism's claims are silenced in 66-70AD fulfillment

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Marty fox]

Thanks for the reply Marty

1. Revelation 11 teaches physical men that have bodies that will die, lay in a physical street of Jerusalem, that will be raised in the sight of the world making merry at their deaths, to symbolize this away is error

2. That's a new one, the main claims are Nero or Titus, put the claim on a demon who cant see death allowing it to fit, because the Lord destroys the Antichrist at the second coming

3. The plagues of Revelation 16:1-11 aren't recorded in history, and it depicts the world, and isn't localized to Jerusalem

Marty you have stated you believe the plagues in Egypt were literal, but you deny the plagues seen in Revelation 16:1-11 will come upon the earth as written, why?

To maintain 70AD fulfillment at any cost, if there's a problem, symbolize it into oblivian

Would removing the literal, and changing it into symbolic be taking away from God's words?

Revelation 16:1KJV
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Conclusion: The preterist argument in 66-70AD fulfillment is "very weak" at its very foundation, obstacles that disprove the teaching are removed through symbolic allegory, the teaching is irrational and borderline in the land of Aesops fables

Couple that with the evidence of the Revelation being written in 95-96AD, preterism's claims are silenced in 66-70AD fulfillment

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Maybe

Thanks for the reply Marty

1. Revelation 11 teaches physical men that have bodies that will die, lay in a physical street of Jerusalem, that will be raised in the sight of the world making merry at their deaths, to symbolize this away is error

2. That's a new one, the main claims are Nero or Titus, put the claim on a demon who cant see death allowing it to fit, because the Lord destroys the Antichrist at the second coming

3. The plagues of Revelation 16:1-11 aren't recorded in history, and it depicts the world, and isn't localized to Jerusalem

Marty you have stated you believe the plagues in Egypt were literal, but you deny the plagues seen in Revelation 16:1-11 will come upon the earth as written, why?

To maintain 70AD fulfillment at any cost, if there's a problem, symbolize it into oblivian

Would removing the literal, and changing it into symbolic be taking away from God's words?

Revelation 16:1KJV
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Conclusion: The preterist argument in 66-70AD fulfillment is "very weak" at its very foundation, obstacles that disprove the teaching are removed through symbolic allegory, the teaching is irrational and borderline in the land of Aesops fables

Couple that with the evidence of the Revelation being written in 95-96AD, preterism's claims are silenced in 66-70AD fulfillment

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Maybe I shouldn’t bite here but I’ll go one by one here is my study on my two witnesses

Who or what are the two witnesses?

I believe the two witnesses to be symbolic of the law and the prophets which point to Jesus. Why does God call them the two witnesses? Why the term witness? That means that they had to witness something. Is it because they witnesses and pointed to Jesus?

It took two witnesses to witness a testimony and two witnesses to witness a crime. Could the testimony be about who Jesus is and the crime be what Israel was guilty of?

Mosses represents the law and like the witnesses turned water into blood and struck the earth with all types of plagues. Elijah represents the prophets and like the witnesses he could shut the sky up so that it couldn’t rain and had fire devour his enemies. These two are the two olive trees and are also the two golden lamp stands the two anointed ones that stand before the lord. This is referred to in Zechariah chapter 4 and Jesus is also the anointed one.

Could the fire out of there mouths be the word that has power to condemn and convict. They are also dressed in sackcloth which represents repentance. Jews reading this would understand the meanings.

They mirror Jesus’ life as they also have a 3 ½ year ministry and can’t be killed until there time has come. They are killed by the beast (which I believe is a demon behind the power of Rome) and Rome also killed Jesus. They are killed in Jerusalem just like Jesus was. They are also dead for 3 ½ days like Jesus was and they are raised back to life and go up to heaven. Both Jesus and the two witnesses had earthquakes around the time of there death and there was also an earthquake when Jesus rose back to life.

Why is it 7000 people that died in the earthquake? Why the number 7000? Is it because 7 is the number of completeness and perfection to God and 1000 means many. It also says in Revelation 11:13 that people gave glory to God after the earthquake just like some people realized that Jesus was the son of God after the earthquake when Jesus died.

Why is Jerusalem also called Sodom and Egypt in Revelation 11:8. Because Sodom represents the morality of Jerusalem and Egypt represents the oppression of Jerusalem.

These two witnesses torment people with the word as there words torment and convicts people just like Jesus words did. The Pharisees were happy when Jesus died because he exposed them for who they were and they may of even gave gifts to one another when they celebrated His death.

Revelation is the unveiling of Jesus and these two witnesses help to reveal to us who Jesus is.

 

[Truth7t7]

Maybe


Maybe I shouldn’t bite here but I’ll go one by one here is my study on my two witnesses

Who or what are the two witnesses?

I believe the two witnesses to be symbolic of the law and the prophets which point to Jesus. Why does God call them the two witnesses? Why the term witness? That means that they had to witness something. Is it because they witnesses and pointed to Jesus?

It took two witnesses to witness a testimony and two witnesses to witness a crime. Could the testimony be about who Jesus is and the crime be what Israel was guilty of?

Mosses represents the law and like the witnesses turned water into blood and struck the earth with all types of plagues. Elijah represents the prophets and like the witnesses he could shut the sky up so that it couldn’t rain and had fire devour his enemies. These two are the two olive trees and are also the two golden lamp stands the two anointed ones that stand before the lord. This is referred to in Zechariah chapter 4 and Jesus is also the anointed one.

Could the fire out of there mouths be the word that has power to condemn and convict. They are also dressed in sackcloth which represents repentance. Jews reading this would understand the meanings.

They mirror Jesus’ life as they also have a 3 ½ year ministry and can’t be killed until there time has come. They are killed by the beast (which I believe is a demon behind the power of Rome) and Rome also killed Jesus. They are killed in Jerusalem just like Jesus was. They are also dead for 3 ½ days like Jesus was and they are raised back to life and go up to heaven. Both Jesus and the two witnesses had earthquakes around the time of there death and there was also an earthquake when Jesus rose back to life.

Why is it 7000 people that died in the earthquake? Why the number 7000? Is it because 7 is the number of completeness and perfection to God and 1000 means many. It also says in Revelation 11:13 that people gave glory to God after the earthquake just like some people realized that Jesus was the son of God after the earthquake when Jesus died.

Why is Jerusalem also called Sodom and Egypt in Revelation 11:8. Because Sodom represents the morality of Jerusalem and Egypt represents the oppression of Jerusalem.

These two witnesses torment people with the word as there words torment and convicts people just like Jesus words did. The Pharisees were happy when Jesus died because he exposed them for who they were and they may of even gave gifts to one another when they celebrated His death.

Revelation is the unveiling of Jesus and these two witnesses help to reveal to us who Jesus is.

I disagree that the (Two Witnesses) represent the prophets and the law, as I have stated, they are depicted as having physical bodies, in a literal Jerusalem, that will lay dead in a literal street, as a literal world watches, as literal gifts are exchanged in celebration of their death

You will closely note you didnt give an explanation in your symbolism of "Street" "Gifts Exchanged" Etc, Marty it's literal, just as Moses/Aaron were literal

I agree fire from the mouth represents symbolic words spoken, I believe as Elijah called fire from heaven, (By His Words)

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Marty fox]

I disagree that the (Two Witnesses) represent the prophets and the law, as I have stated, they are depicted as having physical bodies, in a literal Jerusalem, that will lay dead in a literal street, as a literal world watches, as literal gifts are exchanged in celebration of their death

You will closely note you didnt give an explanation in your symbolism of "Street" "Gifts Exchanged" Etc, Marty it's literal, just as Moses/Aaron were literal

I agree fire from the mouth represents symbolic words spoken, I believe as Elijah called fire from heaven, (By His Words)

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Well i did mention the gifts and some of the prophets were killed but don’t you see revelation is all about Jesus and the law and the prophets pointed to Jesus