Partial preterisims and revelation chapter by chapter part 1

[Timtofly]

That’s why God destroyed the temple. You need to remember that even the deciples did temple sacrifices in the book of acts after the resurrection. What did end in Gods eyes was the sin sacrifices after the resurrection

Josephus was a historical documentor who verified that Jesus existed

Doing sacrifices is not the same as the once a year Holy of Holies, if that is what you meant. Even the pagans did the same sacrifices in their temples. Paul wrote about eating the meat that was put up for sale after the sacrifice.

God did not destroy the Temple. God just stopped coming once a year. That temple could have stood until this day and not made one difference. Jesus said it would be torn down. Jesus did not say God would destroy it.

Jesus was prophesying the Jewish rebellion not God destroying their temple.

 

[Marty fox]

Doing sacrifices is not the same as the once a year Holy of Holies, if that is what you meant. Even the pagans did the same sacrifices in their temples. Paul wrote about eating the meat that was put up for sale after the sacrifice.

God did not destroy the Temple. God just stopped coming once a year. That temple could have stood until this day and not made one difference. Jesus said it would be torn down. Jesus did not say God would destroy it.

Jesus was prophesying the Jewish rebellion not God destroying their temple.

Yes God did

Luke 19:43-44
41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

Also the temple was destroyed on the same day of the year as the first temple

 

[Marty fox]

How many woman disciples were there among the 12 original disciples?

Why are there not 13 tribes, and 13 disciples? You do realize that they had a sister? Genesis 30:20-21

"And Leah said, God hath endued me with a good dowry; now will my husband dwell with me, because I have born him six sons: and she called his name Zebulun. And afterwards she bare a daughter, and called her name Dinah."

Sorry but I have no idea what your trying to say here or what your point is

 

[Marty fox]

Pillar is actually used metaphorically to represent a permanent fixture - I do discern symbolism too!
This guy explains it better than I can.
Expository Files by Jon Quinn
["Interestingly, of the sixteen times the word “temple” is used in the Book of Revelation, only once does it refer to the church - Rev 11:1,2. The rest of the time, the word “temple” refers to the heavenly dwelling place, or sanctuary, of God. Heaven is His heavenly temple. Heaven does not contain a temple within it because the whole of heaven is God's temple, or dwelling place, containing His presence (Revelation 21:22).
So, if the “temple” here is heaven, what does it mean to be made a “pillar” there? It would not be for support. Rather, it would signify permanence. When one overcomes, he or she gains a permanent place in heaven (like a physical pillar would be a permanent part of a physical temple). Heaven becomes home eternally. (Note, this would not fit the church. In the church, I can overcome today but tomorrow I can leave the temple and forfeit my crown (See verse 11!)
So, Heaven does fit the context. Note text: (REV 3:12 - “I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore.” Jesus tells us that if we overcome now, for a little while, we will find a permanent place of joy, filled with wonderful experiences and great beauty and absolute confidence and security. In fact, this also fits with what the rest of the Bible says about heaven (John 3:36; 5:24; 14:1-3; Hebrews 5:9; 9:15; 11:10; 13-16; 1 Peter 1:4; Revelation 21:1-6; 22:5). Our hope of eternal life, of being forever with the Lord, motivates us to grow and endure and overcome so we may greet Jesus when He comes.. (1 Thessalonians 4:16,17)."]




The Church is the Bride of Christ. But did you think that the angel showed John a giant heavenly structure that meant the Church? Or was he first showing him, heaven first, where the bride would dwell and then the bride in these verses:
"The nations will walk by >>> its light <<<, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory >>> into it<<<. In the daytime (for there will be no night there) >>> its gates<<< will never be closed; and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations >>> into it<<<; and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life." Rev. 21:24-27

Do you see the distinction here???

That sounds exactly like the church in verse 24-27 doesn’t it?

 

[Marty fox]

It did happen. It happened at the Cross. I am not sure why Christians do not recognize the Cross as the immediate stop to the OT economy. The veil of the Temple was rent from top to bottom. Not burned with fire, nor eaten by rats. The last day resurrection happened at the Cross. Those souls were bodily resurrected to be forever in Paradise. That was the end of the world. And all of that generation were still alive. Lazarus himself resurrected a few weeks earlier, still walking around as a living example of coming out of Abraham's bosom. John the Baptist would have had a new incorruptible body. Unless you think his body was walking around without a head? Or his head was floating around looking for the body? I guess the head had the eyes. Others who had died in the months leading up to the Cross are more than likely still in sheol waiting for the GWT.

Why not view the Cross as the end of the world? The church age/world was just starting. It was a brave new world after 30AD. It did not start in 70AD. Why would the church age only last 40 years?

You are right here as I think that way too but the problem was that the Jews kept the temple era going thats why God had to destroy it they would of never stopped and it was a constant rejection of Jesus and what He did

By the way the Lazarus Jesus raised back to life wasn’t the same Lazarus in the rich man and the beggar parable

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

That sounds exactly like the church in verse 24-27 doesn’t it?

Do you see, you are having a problem with interpreting scriptures that you post.
Rev. 3:12 is talking about _ each _ and every _ individual Christian, not the entire church.
"He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name."

You are on a roll with a continuous plethora of misinterpretation.

 

[Timtofly]

Yes God did

Luke 19:43-44
41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time (the life of Jesus Christ on earth) of God’s coming to you.”

Also the temple was destroyed on the same day of the year as the first temple

There is not a single word in there that God did it. The Romans came against them, because they did not recognize that Jesus was God coming to earth to redeem mankind.

 

[Timtofly]

Sorry but I have no idea what your trying to say here or what your point is

You question why God only uses men, and not women as His disciples. At least the 12 tribes, 12 disciples for the first coming, and then the 144k disciples of the Second Coming.

If God was going to use women there would have been 13 tribes of Israel and Dinah would have been one of the forefathers of Israel. Women would have been given as some of the 13 disciples of Jesus. There would have been 13,000 from each tribe in Revelation 7, including women. Are you questioning the precedent set in Genesis?

 

[Marty fox]

Do you see, you are having a problem with interpreting scriptures that you post.
Rev. 3:12 is talking about _ each _ and every _ individual Christian, not the entire church.
"He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name."

You are on a roll with a continuous plethora of misinterpretation.

Each and every individual Christian is the church

 

[Marty fox]

There is not a single word in there that God did it. The Romans came against them, because they did not recognize that Jesus was God coming to earth to redeem mankind.

Yes so God allowed them to do His work

This is just like the verses below

Revelation 17:16-17
16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked;they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled.

 

[Marty fox]

You question why God only uses men, and not women as His disciples. At least the 12 tribes, 12 disciples for the first coming, and then the 144k disciples of the Second Coming.

If God was going to use women there would have been 13 tribes of Israel and Dinah would have been one of the forefathers of Israel. Women would have been given as some of the 13 disciples of Jesus. There would have been 13,000 from each tribe in Revelation 7, including women. Are you questioning the precedent set in Genesis?

God does use women to do His work the women are in the 1000

Galatians 3:28
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[marks]

I guess God would have to actually say 144 Jewish men.

It's in the syntax. They used word form to show gender.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If there are only 144000 then why wouldn’t God put the seal of protection on the other Christians?

Sometimes we shouldn’t assume and also have too consider what the bible doesn’t actually say

Maybe because they weren't there?

The servants of God were sealed. This is an inclusive statement. None are left out. And there are only these. Doesn't it make you wonder why?

Much love!

 

[Marty fox]

Maybe because they weren't there?

The servants of God were sealed. This is an inclusive statement. None are left out. And there are only these. Doesn't it make you wonder why?

Much love!

Because they represent the church

See post #71

 

[marks]

God does use women to do His work the women are in the 1000

Galatians 3:28
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

This doesn't say anything about the 144,000.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Because they represent the church

See post #71

They are their own group of people. No need to make them a symbol of anyone. They are who John said that they are. Why say otherwise?

Much love!

 

[Timtofly]

Yes so God allowed them to do His work

This is just like the verses below

Revelation 17:16-17
16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked;they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled.

Now where is the prophecy that explains the Romans doing the will of God?

 

[Timtofly]

God does use women to do His work the women are in the 1000

Galatians 3:28
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Yes, women were used throughout Scripture. That is not the point. The point is there are not 13 tribes of Israel.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Each and every individual Christian is the church

No, part of the church!

Let's see now, just to summarize things a bit. You state that
*Israel _ is the Church.
*The 144k _ is the Church.
* The pillars are not individuals but each pillar _ is the Church.
* The whole New Jerusalem that comes down from heaven _ is the Church - with all it's fancy foundations, stones, pearly gates, streets of gold and a river running through it that has seasonal fruited trees, God and His temple in it.
*The multitude in heaven that no one can number is the Church - but wait a minute ... I thought they were already numbered as 144k?
What else ...
*Oh, the two witnesses are the Church. Did I get that right so far?Anything thing else?
*The events of the Seals, trumpets and bowls already happened.
*It was Judgment against Jerusalem only, not the world.
*There will be no Millennial Kingdom!
*The first earth and heavens are destroyed and at that time we are resurrected.
*And since the New Jerusalem is not a city, nor does it represent the New heaven on earth, but the Church itself, we'll have no place to live. How shocking. The church comes down from heaven to nothing. It's just us, floating around in empty space. God destroyed the first heaven and earth and so has He forgotten to make us all mansions in a new heaven or just forgot to mention it to us?
That is a terrible story and ending.
I like mine better.

 

[Marty fox]

No, part of the church!

Let's see now, just to summarize things a bit. You state that
*Israel _ is the Church.
*The 144k _ is the Church.
* The pillars are not individuals but each pillar _ is the Church.
* The whole New Jerusalem that comes down from heaven _ is the Church - with all it's fancy foundations, stones, pearly gates, streets of gold and a river running through it that has seasonal fruited trees, God and His temple in it.
*The multitude in heaven that no one can number is the Church - but wait a minute ... I thought they were already numbered as 144k?
What else ...
*Oh, the two witnesses are the Church. Did I get that right so far?Anything thing else?
*The events of the Seals, trumpets and bowls already happened.
*It was Judgment against Jerusalem only, not the world.
*There will be no Millennial Kingdom!
*The first earth and heavens are destroyed and at that time we are resurrected.
*And since the New Jerusalem is not a city, nor does it represent the New heaven on earth, but the Church itself, we'll have no place to live. How shocking. The church comes down from heaven to nothing. It's just us, floating around in empty space. God destroyed the first heaven and earth and so has He forgotten to make us all mansions in a new heaven or just forgot to mention it to us?
That is a terrible story and ending.
I like mine better.

Well those are your words not mine I didn’t say or believe all of what you said

Once again I think that we need love and grace in our debates