PAST-Millennialism

[PinSeeker]

The Revelation 20 millennium had a beginning point as well as a specific "expiration" date.

Right, I agree. But we don't know the expiration date, as it hasn't come yet... but may be very close.

....God designed this millennium span of time for a stationary, physical temple worship system to function before it was outmoded by the New Covenant being launched in AD 33.

The millennium is the fullness of God's time in bringing His elect into His Israel. This is the time in which (as Jeremiah said was then still to come, but surely coming) God is now putting His law within us, writing it on our hearts. This is in contrast to the Old Covenant, as Jeremiah quotes God as saying, in which He says that was the Covenant God made in Exodus 20, when He brought His people out of Egypt and gave the Law to them through Moses on Mt. Sinai. And this is exactly what the writer of Hebrews says in Hebrews 8. He validates what Jeremiah wrote then, even quoting his very words.

The inauguration of the New Covenant was launched simultaneously with the ending of the millennium in AD 33.

Ohhhh... I understand your position very well. I actually agree with this statement ~ or would, if you were to change 'ending' to 'beginning.'

The New Covenant in Christ's blood (which has no end) brought the literal millennium years to an end.

Agree with the first half of this statement, but the second half is the complete reverse of what it should be and is.

The literal millennium was only the precursor to the greater and more glorious reality under the New Covenant with Christ our deathless high priest.

Well, I'll say this, which in some sense is an agreement to what you say here, that the time between the fall of Adam and Eve in Genesis 3 to the time of Jesus's birth, life on earth, crucifixion, and resurrection and Pentecost is a millennium of sorts.

This is quite a typical opinion - the the "First resurrection" is the spiritual awakening to life for each saint.

Well, it's not very typical on this forum, unfortunately... And I'm perfectly okay with anyone calling that my opinion. But it is what it is.

The only problem is that the "First resurrection" in Revelation 20:5 is said to be a specific, single point on the calendar when the "remnant of the dead" came to life again.

Ahhh... You know, 3 Resurrections, that is a valid take on that particular verse/passage, but something can be valid but not accurate at the same time. It can't be the other ways around... what is accurate cannot be invalid. But yes, something valid can possibly be inaccurate, and in this case... is. I think you would have to admit that seeing that first resurrection in Revelation 20:5 as happening continuously for all the saints over the course of the millennium is also a valid understanding of that that passage. So then, it becomes a matter of accurately assessing which valid understanding is accurate. It is the latter, because that's what matches up with the rest of Scripture. But, we can agree to disagree, if you remain where you are on this.

John said this single event IS the First resurrection.

Right. But... see above.

Now, we as believers share in the benefits of that First resurrection event, surely. But we were not the ones raised bodily to life again at that single event in time.

The first resurrection ~ not Jesus's, but ours ~ is not bodily. In terms of Revelation 20, that happens just prior to the scene depicted in Revelation 20:11-13 and following.

That was the Matthew 27:52-53 saints and Christ - all of them the First-fruits of the "harvests" to be bodily raised to life again.


This physical resurrection already happened another time for the saints. On AD 70's day of Pentecost, to be exact - just as Daniel's very specific 1,335th day predicted the timing for this. You and I are awaiting the third resurrection "harvest" in the future at a time when the Feast of Tabernacles would have ordinarily been celebrated under the OC. It will not be soon.

Ugh. Interesting opinion... But I disagree.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

That's quite alright. What you personally are not interested in, the next person down the line might be.

But the millennium having "expired" back in AD 33 with Christ and that "First resurrection" event is not "convoluted" at all. John is quite clear. The millennium had ended even before John was putting pen to parchment to write Revelation, because Satan's "short time" of release at the end of the millennium had already started by then. Those two Revelation texts of Rev. 12:12 and Rev. 20:3 & 7 compared with each other are simple enough to understand.

The Revelation 20 millennium ended long, long ago.

 

[3 Resurrections]

This is the people in verse 4, those who were killed then come back to life to reign a thousand years, just as it says.

You are misquoting John. John wrote of those in Rev. 20:4 that "they lived and reigned with Christ the thousand years". It does NOT say that they "came to life and then reigned with Christ the thousand years." This would change John's statement entirely. And yes, I am aware of the variety in the translations. I am using the Interlinear. It seems John knew there would be some confusion on this point, and so clarified it in Rev. 20:5 by saying that this remnant of the dead he had just spoken about in verse 4 only came to life again when the millennium had finished, and called that event the "First resurrection".

During their natural lifetime on earth before dying, those saints John mentioned in Rev. 20:4 had reigned vicariously with Christ - they "reigned in life by one, Christ Jesus" (John 5:17), and did so at various times during the millennium years when Satan's deception was bound.

But this "reigning in life by one Christ Jesus" has always been true about the saints from Creation forward, and will be the case until human history's culmination point at the final judgment. Before the foundation of the world, God in grace purposed to choose all the saints that would be in the book of life in Christ - the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:3-5, 2 Timothy 1:9, Rev. 13:8).

 

[3 Resurrections]

Right, I agree. But we don't know the expiration date, as it hasn't come yet... but may be very close.

But John told you when the millennium would expire. He said Satan's "little season" of being loosed on earth would start when the millennium was finished (Rev. 20:3 & 7). And he also warned the saints that this "short time" of an angry Satan's release on earth had already started by then (Rev. 12:12). That means the millennium was already past by the time John was writing Revelation.

Here's a modern-day comparison.

Suppose a serious crime has been committed in a city. The police pick up a prime suspect in the case, and announce that they are going to hold this person for a thousand hours before he is released on bond. They will then allow him a "little season" of time before his trial.

The thousand hours of time expire, and bond is posted for this prime suspect. He is then released on bail for that "little season" and "short time".

The local TV news is informed of this prime suspect's release after the thousand hours is finished, and the city's evening newscaster announces the following warning to the public. "Woe to our city and its inhabitants! for this prime suspect has come down unto us in great wrath, knowing he has only a short time."

With this public announcement, the city's people realize that the thousand hours of the prime suspect being held by the police is over and done with by then.

Do the same comparison with John's two texts in Revelation 20:3 & 7 and Revelation 12:12. These verses clearly tell us that the literal thousand years of the Revelation 20 millennium were already over by the time John wrote his warning to the public in Revelation 12:12 about a released Satan. Nobody seems willing yet to address this very simple set of Revelation texts, in the only book which speaks directly about the thousand years.

 

[ewq1938]

You are misquoting John. John wrote of those in Rev. 20:4 that "they lived and reigned with Christ the thousand years". It does NOT say that they "came to life and then reigned with Christ the thousand years."

Yes it does. Whenever someone who is dead is said to live/ZAO, a resurrection took place.

This would change John's statement entirely. And yes, I am aware of the variety in the translations. I am using the Interlinear. It seems John knew there would be some confusion on this point, and so clarified it in Rev. 1:5 by saying that this remnant of the dead he had just spoken about in verse 4 only came to life again when the millennium had finished, and called that event the "First resurrection".

No, you are misreading it. The first resurrection are those who reign with Christ for the thousand years not anyone after it.

During their natural lifetime on earth before dying, those saints John mentioned in Rev. 20:4 had reigned vicariously with Christ - they "reigned in life by one, Christ Jesus" (John 5:17), and did so at various times during the millennium years when Satan's deception was bound.

No, they died during the trib and were dead then seen to live again. Only after that do they reign with Christ.

 

[PinSeeker]

But John told you when the millennium would expire. He said Satan's "little season" of being loosed on earth would start when the millennium was finished (Rev. 20:3 & 7).

Right...

And he also warned the saints that this "short time" of an angry Satan's release on earth had already started by then (Rev. 12:12). That means the millennium was already past by the time John was writing Revelation.

This is really a general misunderstanding of how John's Revelation is structured. What we are to see here in Revelation 12:12 is the defeat of Satan in the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ (see also Colossians 2:15 and John 12:31). The end of the millennium and then Satan's loosing are still to come... but may be very close, even by our standards.

And even before what I say here, 3R, John quotes Christ as saying (in Revelation 4:1), “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” By "after this," What Christ says there is intimately similar to Revelation 1:19, where He says "Write therefore the things that you have seen, those that are and those that are to take place after this." So the question then is regarding what is referred to by the 'this,' and we see that in the immediately preceding verse, Revelation 1:18 ~ “Fear not, I am the First and the Last, and the Living One. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades." So... after His crucifixion and resurrection, all of Revelation from Revelation 4:1 to Revelation 22:5, which includes, of course, all of Revelation 20 ~ the entire millennium of Revelation 20:1-6 included. Because God is in control and has foreordained the entire course of history (Ephesians 1:11; Isaiah 46:10), He can tell beforehand the character of the entire age leading up to the Second Coming. The guarantee from God is reassuring for believers who must face hardship, persecution, or even death. And this is how it is possible that everyone who reads aloud the words of this prophecy and who hear and keep what is written in it are blessed (Revelation 1:3).

This is how it is to be seen.

Nobody seems willing yet to address this very simple set of Revelation texts, in the only book which speaks directly about the thousand years.

See above.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Ghada]

The categories of Pre, Post, and Amillennialism need to step aside for another category - PAST-millennialism. A literal thousand years. With a date which "expired" and was "finished" at the First Resurrection of Christ in AD 33,

The problem of course is the nations of the earth have not been ruled over by Him nor His resurrected saints.

Isn't PAST-mil, just post-mil? In any case, they have the same results as amil: No ruling of the Lord Himself over all nations, with all nations flowing up to His kingdom temple in Jerusalem.

Nor has He yet returned to smite the nations He will inherit and rule over with His resurrected saints.

First resurrection of Jesus Christ?

This millennium period of a stationary, physical temple worship system was only a precursor to the more glorious reality of Christ becoming the "chief cornerstone" of the spiritual temple not made with human hands.

True.

And the temple built for Him to enter with glory, to rule over all nations, will be more glorious than the two previous temples made by Israelites and Jews.

 

[Ghada]

With His finished sacrifice and His resurrection and ascension establishing the New Covenant, Christ became the only temple foundation stone needed from then onward.

True. During His thousand year rule, He will still be the foundation stone of His church on earth. There will be more converted saints during His kingdom on earth, than all the thousands of years going before.

He and His resurrected saints will be ruling over all the earth with the King's gospel and law. And that old serpent Satan will be shut up in hell.

The Old Covenant and the physical temple became obsolete at that point.

True. With the curtain split by God down the middle.

With Christ as the foundation stone, we believers as "living stones" are being built up into a holy temple in the Lord

True.

which can never be destroyed or replaced.

I've known for a while that anti-millinialists reject the Lord ruling over all nations on earth, because of their OSAS unconditional enteral salvation.

It has something to do with thinking you are already resurrected and ruling from heavenly places 'spiritually', and so how can that not be forever and ever...

 

[Ghada]

During that thousand-year period initiated with Solomon's temple foundation stone being laid down, Satan's deception of the nations was bound by the knowledge of the God of Israel going abroad throughout the nations.

More pseudo-spiritual nonsense. Satan will be bound in hell with his angels that sinned.

The problem with some readers of the Bible, is they reject plain words they don't want to believe, and then turn them into symbolic myths, or hyper-spiritual mysticism.

It sounds so theological and spiritually astute.

I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

The eyes of carnal man, trying to play spiritually prophetic.

The Queen of Sheba was only one example. Ignorance of the God of Israel had been one of Satan's main tools of deception of the nations before then.

Your rewriting of the Bible is insulting to simple reading of it.

And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Some people get so wrapped up in their personal revelations of prophetic insight, that they neglect to make sure the Bible doesn't openly contradict it. I mean, even without knowledge of the Bible, someone can do a simple word search for Satan still working on earth.

But, then the purpose is not Bible prophecy, but justifying a gospel of salvation and self-justification for unrepented sinners.

Satan is not bound by your 'knowledge', but is the prophetic source of it.

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

 

[Ghada]

After that millennium's beginning, the nations could no longer claim ignorance of the God of Israel as an excuse.

At that time, word of the Lord was only by His prophets on earth. Syrians had certainly heard. Not Chinese. There was no world-wide commission from the Lord.

They may have continued to practice idolatry, but at the very least they were doing so with an awareness of Israel's God.

The law of Moses was not preached worldwide. Yet all men were still created int he image of God, and so had conviction of evil doing.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

 

[Ghada]

The conditions of the millennium have often been mistakenly exaggerated into a utopian-style environment.

Portraying the Lord's rule over all nations as 'utopian', is just another way of turning Bible truth into more myth.

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

His coming again to inherit all nations to rule, is not a myth of ingenious men. Trying to make it a myth, as we have seen so far doesn't have any cunning to it at all. I mean, not even checking the Bible for contradictions is amateurish, negligent, and sloppy.

The righteous and holy rule of the King's law and gospel with equal justice and liberty, and just execution of transgression, is only sought for by the righteous that live that way.

the guilty don't want anything to do with truly just rule without respect of persons. Especially those who think their own faith and bright ideas deserve some sort of respect amidst continued sins and trespasses.

The only description we are given about the millennium conditions is that Satan's deception of the nations was to be bound for that period of time which would expire at the point when the First Resurrection occurred.

Once again. A little Bible review to back up personally-desired prophecy is necessary for other readers to give it the time of day.

The lion and the lamb lay down. No more warfare allowed. The resurrected King sits on His throne of glory on earth. The resurrected saints rule over cities personally. Nations travel to Jerusalem freely without war nor violence. Resurrected Abraham receives the promised land from the Lord. resurrected Job sees His Redeemer on this earth. Nature is ruled to either bless or curse the nations by their obedience to the King's law. Etc...

 

[Ghada]

when the First Resurrection occurred.

Shall occur.

Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

The first resurrection of the saints has not past.

I've wondered exactly how someone could convince themselves with mortal flesh on earth, how they have already been resurrected from he dead unto secured eternal salvation and life. I know they spiritualize it for OSAS purposes, but I also see they become anti-millennials to reinforce it.

when the First Resurrection occurred.

It is quite simple to pin down when the millennium "expired" by comparing two texts in Revelation. Those two texts are Revelation 12:12 and Revelation 20:3&7.

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

So, the devil is both bound and coming down with wrath.

Satan was to be loosed to deceive the nations again for a "little season" at the point when the millennium expired (Rev. 20:3&7).

So, he both comes up from the pit, and comes down at the same time.

Satan was stated as having already been loosed for that "short time" on earth in Revelation 12:12.

This is called personal projection into the Bible (or any book for that matter). Your prophecy requires him being loosed at the time, and yet the Bible says nothing about him being loosed at the time. Nor about coming up from the bit bound in to be loosed from.

Satan is the prince and power of the air, who will be cast down to earth at the first resurrection of the saints into the air with our returned Lord.

Satan is already cast down from heaven as lightening, and will also be cast down from the air, when the Lord returns there.

For what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial?

The rest of Revelation 20 aligns with this.

The rest of Rev 20 has the fire of God coming down upon the earth, and the rest of the dead raised to final judgment.

After the Lord's 1000 year rule on earth with His resurrected saints, and promised land given to resurrected Abraham and his natural seed remaining on earth.

 

[Timtofly]

Nobody seems willing yet to address this very simple set of Revelation texts, in the only book which speaks directly about the thousand years.

There are plenty of people who address the point this thousand years is after the Second Coming.

Satan is bound after the Second Coming. Those beheaded are given life after the Second Coming.

Do you understand what it means to receive life after physical death?

If "they lived" does not mean "came to life" how do humans live without a head in a body, or without a body for that matter, when chopping off their head was the point they needed to live. They were not spiritually beheaded, and never physically died, but kept living the entire thousand years. The whole point of "they lived" is that they were no longer dead in any form of being dead.

"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished."

Are you going to also argue that the rest of the dead will not "come to life" either after the thousand years?

How does that work that no one comes to life at the Second Coming? Obviously your point means that whatever happened can only happen prior to the thousand years and not after the thousand years ends. Because you claim they cannot do neither even after the thousand years. John clearly points out that these beheaded souls do something at the beginning of the thousand years, not during, nor after these thousand years end.

 

[PinSeeker]

You know, not to hijack this thread and make it into something other than what it originally was, but...

I've known for a while that anti-millinialists reject the Lord ruling over all nations on earth, because of their OSAS unconditional enteral salvation.

It has something to do with thinking you are already resurrected and ruling from heavenly places 'spiritually', and so how can that not be forever and ever...

Not sure who you are referring to as "anti-millennialists," but in reading passages like the following...

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus... And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified... in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8)

• "...He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." (Philippians 1:6)
• "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:3-5)
• "Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever." (Jude 1:24:25)

This, of course, is not nearly an exhaustive list, but how anyone can fail to see and/or refute the eternal security of those in Christ is just astonishing.

It has something to do with thinking you are already resurrected and ruling from heavenly places 'spiritually', and so how can that not be forever and ever...

Not sure who you are referring to as "anti-millennialists," but regarding our being resurrected and ruling in Christ (not with Him), Paul says the following:

"God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace you have been saved ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." (Ephesians 2:4-9)​

This is indeed a resurrection. Not bodily (yet; but that will be at the end of the age), but a resurrection non the less. As Paul writes to the Corinthians, "if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come" (2 Corinthians 5:17).

Glory be to our great God.

Grace and peace to you and all.

 

[Ghada]

Not sure who you are referring to as "anti-millennialists," but in reading passages like the following...

Ok. Anti-Bible-millinialists. The 'millennium' that some prophecy is not the Lord's, but their own imagination.

Not believing Bible prophecy, is not believe the Bible prophecy: Anti-Bible-Millennium

The Bible Millennium is like the Bible rapture and Bible trinity. They refer to specifics in the Bible, for them to be Bible prophecy and doctrine.

The Bible Millennium is:

It is fulfillment of the old prophecy of the Lord inheriting and ruling all nations on earth as King.
It is when unjust man shall no more rule on earth.
It is fulfilled by the retuning resurrected Lord Jesus Christ in Person.
It is when the resurrected Lord will sit with His glory in the millennium temple house on earth.
It is when His first resurrected saints rule the nations with Him, with rods of iron and scepters of righteousness.
It is for one thousand years.
It is when Abraham will receive the land promised him and his natural seed remaining on earth.
It is when there will be no warfare nor crimes gone unpunished.
It is when many of the nations go up to see and hear the Lord Himself from His temple house.
It is when beasts of the field will be at peace with man and themselves, and are vegetarians.
It is when the greatest harvest of souls to God will be more than all the thousands of years gone before.
It is when Satan and his temptations will be shut up in hell.
It is when nature is moved by the Lord to reward or punish nations by rain or drought.
Ect..

It is not a spirit-only rule of Christ on earth as Head of the present church, where unjust men still rule and go unpunished.

And it certainly is not some millennium began with Solomon's temple, as though man had no 'awareness' of the true God beforehand.

 

[WPM]

Ok. Anti-Bible-millinialists. The 'millennium' that some prophecy is not the Lord's, but their own imagination.

Not believing Bible prophecy, is not believe the Bible prophecy: Anti-Bible-Millennium

The Bible Millennium is like the Bible rapture and Bible trinity. They refer to specifics in the Bible, for them to be Bible prophecy and doctrine.

The Bible Millennium is:

It is fulfillment of the old prophecy of the Lord inheriting and ruling all nations on earth as King.
It is when unjust man shall no more rule on earth.
It is fulfilled by the retuning resurrected Lord Jesus Christ in Person.
It is when the resurrected Lord will sit with His glory in the millennium temple house on earth.
It is when His first resurrected saints rule the nations with Him, with rods of iron and scepters of righteousness.
It is for one thousand years.
It is when Abraham will receive the land promised him and his natural seed remaining on earth.
It is when there will be no warfare nor crimes gone unpunished.
It is when many of the nations go up to see and hear the Lord Himself from His temple house.
It is when beasts of the field will be at peace with man and themselves, and are vegetarians.
It is when the greatest harvest of souls to God will be more than all the thousands of years gone before.
It is when Satan and his temptations will be shut up in hell.
It is when nature is moved by the Lord to reward or punish nations by rain or drought.
Ect..

It is not a spirit-only rule of Christ on earth as Head of the present church, where unjust men still rule and go unpunished.

And it certainly is not some millennium began with Solomon's temple, as though man had no 'awareness' of the true God beforehand.

Ahhhh! Anti-Bible-Millennium is anyone who disagrees with you.

 

[Ghada]

This, of course, is not nearly an exhaustive list, but how anyone can fail to see and/or refute the eternal security of those in Christ is just astonishing.

I see. You're just miffed at OSAS unconditional salvation being the source of many anti-Bible-millinialists.

How can anyone not see no man is given saving faith of Jesus toward God, without first repenting of their sins and trespasses for His sake?

Because they don't want to. Why? Well, because they are still hard-hearted unrepented sinners. It's pretty much self-explanatory.

Not sure who you are referring to as "anti-millennialists," but regarding our being resurrected and ruling in Christ (not with Him), Paul says the following:

True. Among our own households and assemblies in Christ Jesus.

Not with Him over all nations:

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

"God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace you have been saved ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." (Ephesians 2:4-9)​

This is indeed a resurrection.

True. I agree. No works any sinner has done without Christ, whether good nor evil, have any merit in being saved by grace, when repenting of the past sins for Jesus' sake.

The resulting life of always doing His righteousness to please God, is immediate with a whole new heart and life freely given by the Father for His Son's sake.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Not bodily (yet; but that will be at the end of the age), but a resurrection non the less.

Agreed. The first resurrection bodily to meet the Lord in the air, is not yet come nor past.

Our repented souls being raised unto life in Christ Jesus, and seated in heavenly places, begins and continues with God's one condition:

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Only if we repent of all transgressions for His sake, do we receive His promised new heart and life of the new covenant. And only if we continue walking uprightly with Jesus by His faith unto the end, do we receive eternal salvation in the resurrection of the dead unto life.

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Now, you can go ahead and resume preaching your gospel of unconditional salvation for unrepented workers of iniquity. However, I believe I've heard it all before. So, unless you come up with some new twist for it, then I'll not go down the endless road with you.

Or, you can actually do what none of your fellow teachers has yet to do: Address the Scriptures given and the common sense of them.

Just show by the Bible how repentance of all our sins and trespasses is not commanded, in order to receive the free gift of Jesus' saving faith.

As Paul writes to the Corinthians, "if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come" (2 Corinthians 5:17).

True. If we've repented of all our sins and trespasses for Jesus' sake.

And still being an unrepented trespasser, you cut out the end:

Behold, all things are become new... And all things are of God.

Not 'some' things are of God, but all things are now of God, and nothing is of the devil.

Nor are some things of the true God, while some things are still old sins of the god of this world.

For what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial?

Grace and peace to you and all.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

 

[Ghada]

Ahhhh! Anti-Bible-Millennium is anyone who disagrees with you.

Ahhhhh! Anti-Bible-Argument is anyone who disagrees with you.

 

[WPM]

Shall occur.

Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

The first resurrection of the saints has not past.

I've wondered exactly how someone could convince themselves with mortal flesh on earth, how they have already been resurrected from he dead unto secured eternal salvation and life. I know they spiritualize it for OSAS purposes, but I also see they become anti-millennials to reinforce it.







Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

So, the devil is both bound and coming down with wrath.

So, he both comes up from the pit, and comes down at the same time.


This is called personal projection into the Bible (or any book for that matter). Your prophecy requires him being loosed at the time, and yet the Bible says nothing about him being loosed at the time. Nor about coming up from the bit bound in to be loosed from.

Satan is the prince and power of the air, who will be cast down to earth at the first resurrection of the saints into the air with our returned Lord.

Satan is already cast down from heaven as lightening, and will also be cast down from the air, when the Lord returns there.

For what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial?




The rest of Rev 20 has the fire of God coming down upon the earth, and the rest of the dead raised to final judgment.

After the Lord's 1000 year rule on earth with His resurrected saints, and promised land given to resurrected Abraham and his natural seed remaining on earth.

Who is "the first resurrection" in Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6?

Who is "the firstborn from the dead" in Colossians 1:18?

Who is "the firstfruits of them that slept" in 1 Corinthians 15:20?

Who is "first begotten of the dead" in Revelation 1:5?

 

[PinSeeker]

Ok. Anti-Bible millinialists. The 'millinium' some prophecy is not the Lord's but their own imagination.

LOL! I can see where this is going already...

Millinium like rapture, refers to a prophecy of the Bible that has specifics:

It's fulfillment of the old prophecy of the Lord inheriting and ruling all nations on earth as King.

Yes...

It is when unjust man shall no more rule on earth.

No, that will be when Jesus comes back, after the conclusion of the millennium, and after the final Judgment.

It is fulfilled by the returning resurrected Lord Jesus Christ.

The millennium is completed when all of God's Israel has been saved, when temple He has been building ~ us, all those in Christ, His Israel, all the saints, the members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in Whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. in Whom we are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit ~ has been completed. This will be the end of God's millennium and will bring on Satan's loosing (which will be cut short for the sake of the elect). And then Christ will return, and win the final victory over Satan and his minions. And then the final Judgment, just before which all are resurrected bodily, some to eternal life and the others to judgment, will take place. And then... THEN... heaven and earth will finally be one.

It is when the resurrected Lord will sit with His glory in His temple house on earth.

We are the Temple.

It is with His first resurrected saints ruling the nations.

Ugh. No...

It is for one thousand years.

It is for eternity.

It is when Abraham will receive the land promised him and his natural seed remaining on earth.

After the final Judgment, the meek shall inherit the earth (Matthew 5:5).

It is when there will be no warfare nor crimes gone unpunished.

Well, I agree regarding the unpunished thing, but as a result of the final Judgment (after the millennium and Christ's return), the unrepentant, those on Christ's left, who have been resurrected to judgment, will depart obediently into this place of outer darkness, of weeping and gnashing of teeth, and will sit in this punishment for eternity.

It is when many of the nations flow up to see and hear the Lord Himself from His temple house.

Well, yes, in eternity, there will be no more unbelief, and we will worship him forever, not only by hearing from Him but in everything we do. There will be no more sin, and we will praise Him as we ought, and even all our works will be praise.

It is when beasts of the field will be at peace with man and themselves, and are vegetarians.
It is when the greatest harvest of souls to God will be more than all the thousands of years gone before.
It is when Satan and his temptations will be shut up in hell.

I agree with all this, but this is eternity and the New Heaven and New Earth that you speak of, not the millennium.

It is not a spirit-only rule of Christ as Head of the present church, where unjust men still rule and go unpunished.

Christ's very present millennial reign ~ from heaven ~ may not look like we think it should look now or want it to look now, because there is surely sin still in this world, but that surely does not mean He is not reigning. To put it very succinctly, God's ways are not our ways, His thoughts not our thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9). He is working all things together for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose (Romans 8:28).

And it certainly is not some millennium began with Solomon's temple, as though man had no 'awareness' of the true God beforehand.

Agreed.

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