Pat Robertson

[Eltanin]

I do hope this isn't one of those topics that are frowned upon, but I really am interested in what people think about it. I put it in debates, because I expect allot of people would have some disagreeing to do.

Recently Pat has stated that he believes people who are transitioning gender are not sinning...
http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/pat-robertson-on-transgender-people-not-a-sin-not-for-you-to-judge-video/news/2013/07/30/72083#.Uh2OMnSGIII.facebook

This really made me wonder if it was a hoax, because it seems so opposite of what you would expect to hear from him.

I sometimes feel allot of what Pat says is hurtful. Not just hurtful to the people he says things about, but also to Christians. I also realize that his organization has helped allot of people around the world. I have a certain degree of mixed feelings about the man. I don't agree with allot that Pat says, but I do try to respect him.

 

[rockytopva]

Pat Robertson will be judged for every idle word (in which he has spoken many)... And I would not want to be in his shoes on that day!

 

[aspen]

Pat is senial

 

[soupy]

Pat is senial

Did you mean senile?

 

[horsecamp]

pats mommy should have explained this to him . years ago

http://www.paternityangel.com/Articles_zone/How_it_happens/How-4.htm

 

[aspen]

lol - yes soupy......perhaps I am too

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Why are we surprised? This is the same guy who suggested we covertly whack the president of Venezuela. The guy has been 2 grapes short of a fruit salad for decades.

 

[Eltanin]

Why are we surprised? This is the same guy who suggested we covertly whack the president of Venezuela. The guy has been 2 grapes short of a fruit salad for decades.

I missed that one...

 

[day]

I agree with the overall negative views about Pat Robertson. However in this case I think he managed to get it right.

It is unfortunate that people born with the brain wired to be one gender and the body formed as the opposite or both genders should be classed with lesbians, gays and bisexuals. For the last three it is obviously sinful choice and never comes up as an issue until some time after puberty. For the first group it is truly a birth defect and becomes apparent at the time a very young child begins to form its identity, if not physically identifiable at birth. These should be allowed surgical correction the same as for other birth defects. It is not the same as someone wanting to change their body for the purpose of sexual pleasure.

Jesus said "There are eunuchs who are born so, and there are eunuchs who have been made so by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves so for the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it". Matt 19:12. While not speaking directly about gender, I think it leaves room for the possibility of sex/gender related birth defects that should be remedied if necessary. The fact that the condition often leads to suicide later on is an indication of the depth of despair resulting from an indefinite self identity.

 

[Dodo_David]

Whenever a preacher is not accountable to anyone, it is difficult for anyone to get that preacher to retire or to move on should the preacher start speaking spiritual nonsense. That is why I am thankful for congregations in which preachers are accountable to groups of elders.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

I agree with the overall negative views about Pat Robertson. However in this case I think he managed to get it right.

It is unfortunate that people born with the brain wired to be one gender and the body formed as the opposite or both genders should be classed with lesbians, gays and bisexuals. For the last three it is obviously sinful choice and never comes up as an issue until some time after puberty. For the first group it is truly a birth defect and becomes apparent at the time a very young child begins to form its identity, if not physically identifiable at birth. These should be allowed surgical correction the same as for other birth defects. It is not the same as someone wanting to change their body for the purpose of sexual pleasure.

Jesus said "There are eunuchs who are born so, and there are eunuchs who have been made so by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves so for the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it". Matt 19:12. While not speaking directly about gender, I think it leaves room for the possibility of sex/gender related birth defects that should be remedied if necessary. The fact that the condition often leads to suicide later on is an indication of the depth of despair resulting from an indefinite self identity.

This is a horrible abuse of scripture that courts contempt. Jesus was certainly NOT talking about a man who thinks he's a woman trapped in a man's body. A man who thinks he's a woman or a woman who thinks she's a man have a mental disorder and should be treated accordingly. It's like many other disorders where the mind simply isn't working as it should. But as often happens in the whacky Leftisphere, some mental disorders are elevated to the status of a protected class. And did you seriously suggest that we should mutilate a little boy the moment he shows signs he thinks he's a girl? This is some sick Orwellian fantasy you're promoting here. By the way, the fact that this disorder often leads to suicide is proof that it's a mental disorder that needs to be treated, not accommodated. When somebody is compelled to believe a lie about themselves, they need to be convinced of the truth, not have some witch doctor compound one lie with even more.

 

[Dodo_David]

This is a horrible abuse of scripture that courts contempt. Jesus was certainly NOT talking about a man who thinks he's a woman trapped in a man's body. A man who thinks he's a woman or a woman who thinks she's a man have a mental disorder and should be treated accordingly. It's like many other disorders where the mind simply isn't working as it should. But as often happens in the whacky Leftisphere, some mental disorders are elevated to the status of a protected class. And did you seriously suggest that we should mutilate a little boy the moment he shows signs he thinks he's a girl? This is some sick Orwellian fantasy you're promoting here. By the way, the fact that this disorder often leads to suicide is proof that it's a mental disorder that needs to be treated, not accommodated. When somebody is compelled to believe a lie about themselves, they need to be convinced of the truth, not have some witch doctor compound one lie with even more.

The last time that I checked, a person who has male reproductive organs and no female reproductive organs is definitely a person who is a male. If such a person should start claiming that he is a female, then I'd question the soundness of that person's mind.

 

[aspen]

Not even gender is black and white, Dodo - hermaphroditism is a real condition.

 

[Dodo_David]

Not even gender is black and white, Dodo - hermaphroditism is a real condition.

Go back and re-read my last post. I took into consideration the existence of hermaphroditism when I wrote my last post.
Hermaphroditism is condition in which a person has both male and female reproductive organs.
In my previous post, I refer to a person who has male reproductive organs only.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Not even gender is black and white, Dodo - hermaphroditism is a real condition.

I hear this all to often offered up as an excuse for transgenderism. Hermaphrodite ambiguity is a birth defect, a departure from God's original design and evidence of the ravages of sin and death brought into the world by the fall of Adam. It's an exceptionally rare condition that has nothing to do with the mental malady of a man thinking he's a woman; which is also a defect. To use the former to justify the latter is a glaring lapse in logic.

 

[aspen]

I am not defending transgenderism. You are actually making my point for my Vale - the world is not black and white and we need to deal with the exceptions to every rule rather than putting our head in the sand.

 

[Dodo_David]

I am not defending transgenderism. You are actually making my point for my Vale - the world is not black and white and we need to deal with the exceptions to every rule rather than putting our head in the sand.

Hermaphroditism and transgenderism are separate things.
The former involves a person having a problem that is physiological.
The latter involves a person having a belief about himself/herself which contradicts that person's physiology.

 

[HammerStone]

I wouldn't so easily dismiss a hermaphrodite as simply a physiological issue. There are numerous examples of these people going through psychological issues as well, such as confusion about which gender they identify with. It's not simple and it's not something that I believe we can simply dismiss as one's particular trial in life that they are supposed to resist.

I guess I am somewhat liberal on this topic for once, because I don't believe it's as simple as all transgenders are making it up, but neither do I believe transgenderism is as rampant as some of the more controversial reports suggest (particularly where young children are confused). I think a line can be drawn between confusion (and learning a role) versus an actual issue, regardless of the nature.

 

[Dodo_David]

I wouldn't so easily dismiss a hermaphrodite as simply a physiological issue. There are numerous examples of these people going through psychological issues as well, such as confusion about which gender they identify with. It's not simple and it's not something that I believe we can simply dismiss as one's particular trial in life that they are supposed to resist.

I guess I am somewhat liberal on this topic for once, because I don't believe it's as simple as all transgenders are making it up, but neither do I believe transgenderism is as rampant as some of the more controversial reports suggest (particularly where young children are confused). I think a line can be drawn between confusion (and learning a role) versus an actual issue, regardless of the nature.

I did not say that hermaphroditism is just a physiological problem. However, it is a problem that is evident to all because of the physiological abnormality.

Transgenderism, on the other hand, is all about the thinking of a person that contradicts that person's physiology.

Again, hermaphroditism and transgenderism are separate things. They are not identical.

 

[day]

Hermaphroditism and transgenderism are separate things.
The former involves a person having a problem that is physiological.
The latter involves a person having a belief about himself/herself which contradicts that person's physiology.

Thank you for clarifying, my post was regarding hermaphrodtism, not the "Chelsia" Mannings of the world.