Paul And The Law

[Episkopos]

You would have made a great Jew if you believe that keeping the law will give you salvation.

I just love the way the religious use scriptures to support their ideas. It is just like Jesus said it is, they study the scriptures thinking that in then they can find a formula they can use to gain salvation but they refuse to accept that Jesus himself has done it for them already.

You post as if you keep the 10 laws but you , and everyone that has a brain, knows that no one has ever been able to keep them but God himself. That is why He came, to keep it for us. But that explodes the brain of the religious.

There are extremes of course...the legalist...but also the lawless. The first places the performance on us alone. The latter denies all responsibility for one's actions. But the truth is that the Holy Spirit makes us very responsible for every thought and deed.

Does Jesus keep the law FOR us? Do you mean instead of us? That is not the truth.

But rather Jesus is working through us to be pleasing to God. And we can do all things through Him.




"I Can Do All Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me"


Philippians 4:13

 

[H. Richard]

Perhaps you could give explain why you dismiss God's laws as unnecessary just because you choose to break them?

By the way, I can't say I have ever considered myself 'religious'.....certainly not like a football fan or a business man whose world revolves around making money.....not even a church goer!

Guilt is not the burden of those keep the faith of Jesus and the Commandments of God. In fact these two aspects identify Gods people according to the book of Revelation.

Just as the Pharisees thought they were keeping the law while all the time they were plotting murder, many today think they keep the law and it seems you are one of them.

I am not going to argue with you because I know it will do no good.

You will say that is because I can't support by opinion but the truth is that you do not want to give Jesus the FULL credit for His work on the cross that PAID for all the sins of the whole world. But if a person doesn't believe that then then they do not have any of their sins paid for. Just as the Jews rejected God's Son today people reject His payment for their sins thinking that they do not have any.

 

[H. Richard]

Are you aware that these texts are speaking to those who reject Jesus? In rejecting him they also reject God and his Law in spite of them giving lip service to it. Those in Galatians want unholy glory....those in John want to commit murder.

Using the scriptures to enamour yourself in rebellion while claiming Sonship is the high point of self deception.

Wonderful, that is what Satan wants to preach. When you add works of law keeping to grace it makes grace to be legalism. That is how Satan gets people to place what they do over what Jesus has already done.

Rejecting Jesus is rejecting His payment for sins on the cross. You, not Jesus, want to add keeping the law. Paul was given a new gospel of grace where God, Jesus, paid for sins. It is pride that makes a person trust in their own works to save them just as Cain did.

 

[H. Richard]

There are extremes of course...the legalist...but also the lawless. The first places the performance on us alone. The latter denies all responsibility for one's actions. But the truth is that the Holy Spirit makes us very responsible for every thought and deed.

Does Jesus keep the law FOR us? Do you mean instead of us? That is not the truth.

You have it wrong but I can see that what I say will not change your mind.

Those that have been set free from the law of condemnation are eternally grateful and they give Jesus the credit for their salvation.

those that have seen their own inability to keep from sinning give Jesus all the credit.

Your statement ""The latter denies all responsibility for one's actions"" shows that you think you no longer sin but everyone else is.

The truth is that God wants to glorify His Son and you wish to glorify yourself.

 

[Episkopos]

those that have seen their own inability to keep from sinning give Jesus all the credit.

You are giving Jesus all the credit for your inability to stop sinning?

Wouldn't it be wiser to go before God giving Jesus credit for the grace to walk as He walked?

Your statement ""The latter denies all responsibility for one's actions"" shows that you think you no longer sin but everyone else is.

The truth is that God wants to glorify His Son and you wish to glorify yourself.

You are speaking from the flesh about what the flesh can do. You shouldn't mix that up with what grace through faith can do.

Jesus gets the credit for our victory over sin...because it is no longer we who are fighting against the sin...but Jesus Himself.

 

[quietthinker]

Wonderful, that is what Satan wants to preach. When you add works of law keeping to grace it makes grace to be legalism. That is how Satan gets people to place what they do over what Jesus has already done.

Rejecting Jesus is rejecting His payment for sins on the cross. You, not Jesus, want to add keeping the law. Paul was given a new gospel of grace where God, Jesus, paid for sins. It is pride that makes a person trust in their own works to save them just as Cain did.

It seems to me you don't understand that it is Gods broken Law which subsequently resulted in death. Do you remember the text, 'the wages of sin is death'? and 'sin is the transgression of the Law'?

Do you have any idea that God's Law is a transcript of his character....do you understand what that means???

Because of Jesus's kindness which we call Grace, he took that death upon himself for the transgressor which is you and me. He took it because God's Law demanded it. He took it because the Laws demands where not possible to be changed. If it was possible, Jesus need not have died. Do you get that?...I mean, do you really get what that's saying ???
Do you really think now that such a high price was paid because the Law could not be changed that all of a sudden after Jesus's resurrection God has now decided that his law is unnecessary and that we can dismiss it all the while saying we trust in Gods Grace? because that is what you are saying.

Have you any idea what you are doing??

Do you really think that God poured out all the accumulated treasure of heaven in this one gift in giving Jesus because his Law was so high and holy that not even Jesus pleading with his Father in Gethsemane that if it were possible some other way could be found?? Not even Jesus's pleading with sweat like great drops of blood could alter the Fathers decision and that now you as a puny mortal can come along and dismiss his Law as if it were some oppressive burden instituted and that God has changed his mind about???
I would suggest you think this through well, very well!

 

[quietthinker]

You, not Jesus, want to add keeping the law.

I'm not adding anything. The Law is as eternal as God, from everlasting to everlasting. It is you who want to break Gods Law with impunity and are trying to use God's word for that end. Do you have any idea how dangerous a game you are playing?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I'm not adding anything. The Law is as eternal as God, from everlasting to everlasting. It is you who want to break Gods Law with impunity and are trying to use God's word for that end. Do you have any idea how dangerous a game you are playing?

Like "God is love" but love is not God, so, is God The Law but the Law is not God. "The Law GIVEN" is not as God as eternal. There was a time when the Law was not "given". But as God eternally had and has been The-Law-of-"GOD", there never will be a time when God will not be The-Law-of-"GOD".

Now Christians don't have issues with this; it's only when the Bible teaches that God in having raised Christ from the dead "on the Sabbath" and that He in Christ and through Christ became and ever since has been The Law for the Sabbath and for the People of God's keeping of it, that they, the Sunday- and even the Saturdarian Christians, suddenly no longer have no issues with the fact that that has been what "God thus concerning the Seventh Day - "Sabbath of the LORD GOD" -, in times past through the prophets and in these last days BY THE SON had been saying".

 

[mjrhealth]

Are you aware that these texts are speaking to those who reject Jesus?

Actually I didnt, thanks for letting me know, so I guess you than should take serious note of your statement.

 

[mjrhealth]

I'm not adding anything. The Law is as eternal as God, from everlasting to everlasting. It is you who want to break Gods Law with impunity and are trying to use God's word for that end. Do you have any idea how dangerous a game you are playing?

Law Eternal,nah Love is eternal, God is love, love has being around forever, the law never came till God gave it to Moses to give top the Israelites. The law will never pass away because it is all wrapped up in Love, So If you Love than the law has no benefits to you, but if you have not love, the law seeks only to condemn those who claim to keep it.

God bless

 

[H. Richard]

It seems to me you don't understand that it is Gods broken Law which subsequently resulted in death. Do you remember the text, 'the wages of sin is death'? and 'sin is the transgression of the Law'?

Do you have any idea that God's Law is a transcript of his character....do you understand what that means???

Because of Jesus's kindness which we call Grace, he took that death upon himself for the transgressor which is you and me. He took it because God's Law demanded it. He took it because the Laws demands where not possible to be changed. If it was possible, Jesus need not have died. Do you get that?...I mean, do you really get what that's saying ???
Do you really think now that such a high price was paid because the Law could not be changed that all of a sudden after Jesus's resurrection God has now decided that his law is unnecessary and that we can dismiss it all the while saying we trust in Gods Grace? because that is what you are saying.

Have you any idea what you are doing??

Do you really think that God poured out all the accumulated treasure of heaven in this one gift in giving Jesus because his Law was so high and holy that not even Jesus pleading with his Father in Gethsemane that if it were possible some other way could be found?? Not even Jesus's pleading with sweat like great drops of blood could alter the Fathers decision and that now you as a puny mortal can come along and dismiss his Law as if it were some oppressive burden instituted and that God has changed his mind about???
I would suggest you think this through well, very well!

It is you who does not understand. Jesus did for mankind what mankind can not do for themselves. The gift of salvation was purchased by God (Jesus) for all those that place their belief, faith, trust and confidence in HIS,. HIS, HIS, shed blood on the cross. But the religious want credit for it by their works to obtain it. Just as Cain did.

 

[H. Richard]

I'm not adding anything. The Law is as eternal as God, from everlasting to everlasting. It is you who want to break Gods Law with impunity and are trying to use God's word for that end. Do you have any idea how dangerous a game you are playing?

Do you understand that your idea will send many to a very hot place. No one has eternal life in God's heaven by their own works at trying to keep the law.

For the children of God their sins were cleansed by the shed blood of God. You just can not get it through your head that it is only God that can call a person clean or not cleaned. It is not you who can do that. You seem to not be aware of what was going on in Acts 15. Perhaps you need to study it.

You are all over me thinking that I wish to have an excuse to sin. I don't think I can change your ideas about that but the truth is I don't have to. You are not my judge although I think you would like to be. It is God who can call the ungodly clean and that is because He has already paid the price of those sins. But you refuse to accept that fact. A person pleases God when they place their faith in Him and what He has done, not in themselves and what they have done. It is written that without faith it is impossible to please God but you are not listening. Like Cain, you wish for God to reward you for your works.

 

[H. Richard]

Rom 7:13-8:5
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.
16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.
17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Free from Indwelling Sin

Rom 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

The religious want salvation by their works of the flesh (law keeping).

WHO ARE THOSE THAT WALK IN THE SPIRIT? It is those that have been placed """in Christ""" by the Holy Spirit because they trust in God's work on the cross.

 

[H. Richard]

OUR ARK: (the “in Christ” doctrine)

2 Cor 1:19-22
19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us-- by me, Silvanus, and Timothy-- was not Yes and No, but in Him was Yes.
20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us.
21 Now He who establishes us with you ""in Christ"" and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
(NKJ)

I look at the words ""in Christ"" and think of them in reference to Noah and the flood.

Noah was told by God to build an Ark. It was built by human hands (Noah’s hands). The waters of God‘s wrath in the flood did not touch Noah and those with him. Noah, by his choice, obeyed God and went into the Ark he had built. --- The waters of the flood were the judgment of God on a sinful world full of sinful people. That does not mean that Noah was sinless. It means Noah believed what God told him.

Today there is another Ark. It is “”NOT”” built by human hands. It is built by the hands (will) of God. - Man can not go into the Ark that God has built by his own efforts (will). He must be placed in God’s Ark (Jesus) by God (the Holy Spirit). God places a person in the Ark (Jesus) He built when that person places their faith, trust and confidence in Jesus’ work on the cross to save him/her. -- This Ark that God has built carries those in it safely over the sins “THEY” commit in their flesh. Their sins can not touch them since they have been atoned (paid) for by the blood of Jesus on the cross.

Jesus Christ is OUR ARK, and just as those in Noah's Ark were kept from the waters of the flood, we who are placed ""in Christ,"" by God, and are kept from the judgment of the law. If we are not ""in Christ"" the law condemns us.

I believe what Paul said when he penned the words ""in Christ."" I also believe that we are placed ""in Christ"" by God. It is an operation of the Holy Spirit (God).

This is how I see it.

 

[Ac28]

The Mosaic Law has NEVER been required of ANY Gentile in the entire Bible, except for proselytes. The closest thing to it was during Acts when the saved Gentiles, ALL of whom were part of Israel, because they were all grafted into Israel, were required to keep 4 ordinances, in order to remain in the all-Israel Acts church and partake of some of Israel's spiritual blessings

Paul preached the Gospel of the Grace pf God - that the Gentiles could partake of Israel's blessings, without having to keep the Law. That was all decided in the big meeting in Acts 15.

Today, Israel doesn't exist in God's eyes and the Gentiles have ZERO association with ANYTHING Israel, including the Law. When Israel was set aside, the Law was set aside. No Jew today is compelled to keep the law. They can't anyway without a temple and animal sacrifices

 

[brakelite]

WHO ARE THOSE THAT WALK IN THE SPIRIT? It is those that have been placed """in Christ""" by the Holy Spirit because they trust in God's work on the cross.

Quite correct. Agree entirely. And the result of that is...... In my personal experience, power to obey God's commandments. I no longer lie, steal, I never consider adultery, I am content with what I have so I don't covet, i don't curse God as I used to, I don't use His name irreverently, I have no other gods in my life, and I have fallen in love with the Sabbath, it being the highlight of the week as day solely focused on Jesus. All the result of knowing my God and his work in me. That can only be His doing. Normal people simply do not live that way. I certainly didn't. And for you and others here to minimise what God has done for me and able to do in others is an insult to his power and purposes for man.
And if you deny my testimony, you are giving the glory to Satan.
KJV Romans 8
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
The verses above is my personal testimony. The law has not made me free from sin. God has. The law has not given me the power to obey God. God has. The law has not given me Christ's righteousness. That comes from Christ alone through His spirit abiding within.
I am not exalting the law as some means by which to impress you, God, or anyone else, nor as the means by which I am saved. I give God all the glory, the praise, and the worship due His holy name for all He has done. Changed my mind that it may be conformed into the image of His Son.

For the life of me I cannot understand why you and others here on a Christian forum deny God His due. Why you constantly downplay His righteousness, and why you believe it so impossible that He share that righteousness with His children. That righteousness is His law. It is that righteousness, that law, which He writes upon our hearts and minds. It is the righteousness of love. And that love in the heart shed forth to others by the spirit of God within harmonises with every aspect of the law. It cannot help but do otherwise. It is the fruit of righteousness as a result of abiding in Him, the source and fountain of all that is good, holy, and truth.

 

[quietthinker]

For the life of me I cannot understand why you and others here on a Christian forum deny God His due. Why you constantly downplay His righteousness, and why you believe it so impossible that He share that righteousness with His children. That righteousness is His law. It is that righteousness, that law, which He writes upon our hearts and minds.

Its really not that difficult to understand. A love of sin will keep a man running from Gods law if he is out of tune with it and sure, the sin is hidden or well disguised, never in your face until under pressure...it is the logic of the serpent in Eden.

To make it confusing for themselves and others, the ceremonial, health and moral laws are conveniently muddled. The appearance of piety and the approval of men is loved and sought. It is the core and heartbeat of every false system.

The response of the Jews who rejected Paul's message gives insight into their logic.

 

[mjrhealth]

Its really not that difficult to understand. A love of sin will keep a man running from Gods law if he is out of tune with it and sure, the sin is hidden or well disguised, never in your face until under pressure...it is the logic of the serpent in Eden.

You really missed the point. it is the Love of sin that keeps man running to the law, that is why it says,

1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

 

[brakelite]

You really missed the point. it is the Love of sin that keeps man running to the law, that is why it says,

That has got to be one of the most illogical statements I have seen on this forum. Are you vying for BoL's place in infamy? Why would a person who loves sin run to the only medium which identifies it?

 

[mjrhealth]

That has got to be one of the most illogical statements I have seen on this forum. Are you vying for BoL's place in infamy? Why would a person who loves sin run to the only medium which identifies it?

Simple, because bad people, that is sinners need the law to identify there sin for them, that is what laws are written for, that is why the Israelite had the law, this bit

Gal_3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

and

Gal_3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

because

Rom_5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

and again (speaking to teh israelites)

Rom_7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

but seems teh lawyers of this world have not become dead to teh law even those who never had it.

1Co_7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

and that Husband is Christ whom all those who are in Him are bound to,

Faith is what please God.

Besides you are bound to the law by your religion, and we all see what religion does to men, But I do doubt that you would ever leave it, so many are afraid to even for His sake.

funny thing is when lawyers open there mouths

. In my personal experience, power to obey God's commandments. I no longer lie, steal, I never consider adultery, I am content with what I have so I don't covet, i don't curse God as I used to, I don't use His name irreveren

they always sound just like this man

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

guess which one was justified.

God is not impressed with man and his doing,

but ill leave you with this one just for you that Christ spoke while dying on the cross for us mear men

Luk_23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.

and still you dont know what it is you do, and again, you have every right in the world to worship God in any way, but you have no right to lay these stumbling blocks before Gods children

Act_15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act_15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

and again

Luk_11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

and one last one

Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

God bless

You just liek so many, sound like a "christian" trying to be a jew