Paul And The Law

[brakelite]

Ca only put it as

Act_15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

but of course we also have

Jas_2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

which is why we have so many "guilty" christians around trying to save themselves. For when your "religion" demands " you keep the law, i guess one must, to save face before men, and we know what God thinks of that.

And why would Christ insist we do something that only He could ever do, knowing that we cannot do it, since He has already done it. Seem we have some really troubled individuals out there....

Don't remember anyone taking about circumcisions here.

 

[brakelite]

No, we don't believe that. Just add it your list of whatever you believe. How does one understand his sanctification, anointing, godly sorrow and discipline without actually experiencing it, you should pray on it

Well, depends on who "we"is I guess. Ask mjr if he thinks obedience to God is necessary for the Christian. Even you haven't outright admitted such. You waffle about extraneous items but don't answer the question any more clearly than others. I'll ask again.
Are we Christians obliged to obey God's commandments? Yes, or no?

 

[Heb 13:8]

Well, depends on who "we"is I guess. Ask mjr if he thinks obedience to God is necessary for the Christian. Even you haven't outright admitted such. You waffle about extraneous items but don't answer the question any more clearly than others. I'll ask again.
Are we Christians obliged to obey God's commandments? Yes, or no?

you don't understand mjr and I because we don't add "loss of salvation" to Paul's Gopsel

to answer your question, we follow commandments out of thankfulness to the cross, not to save ourselve

the devil asks questions in the wrong way in as to deceive or trick te believer. God bless

 

[mjrhealth]

Well, depends on who "we"is I guess. Ask mjr if he thinks obedience to God is necessary for the Christian. Even you haven't outright admitted such. You waffle about extraneous items but don't answer the question any more clearly than others. I'll ask again.

Well you see, for you it never was the law, for you it is the Sabbath that is your stumbling block, doesnt your "religion" demand you keep it.?? but also for you and so many. it is not grace by faith , but also by this and that and another thing. always adding to, laying stumbling blocks before men that you yourself dont keep oh so Jesus spoke of the pharisees. So even by your pretend "law keeping' is disobedience because it is not faith which is what salvation is all about, and all that please God, even Jesus got a little bit excited, and I think the only time He ever did,

Luk_7:9 When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

and for all the lawyers who insisted on the Law HE was never impressed. If you want to remain under condemnation by the law, that is your right, but you have no right to put others under the same, that is a sin against God Himself.

Heb_7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

We are obedient to Christ for you it is and always be teh law, at your own insistence.... no Glory in Christ for it...

 

[mjrhealth]

Don't remember anyone taking about circumcisions here.

oh you ignored this bit, you look for what you want to see.


Act_15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

 

[brakelite]

Well you see, for you it never was the law, for you it is the Sabbath that is your stumbling block, doesnt your "religion" demand you keep it.?? but also for you and so many. it is not grace by faith , but also by this and that and another thing. always adding to, laying stumbling blocks before men that you yourself dont keep oh so Jesus spoke of the pharisees. So even by your pretend "law keeping' is disobedience because it is not faith which is what salvation is all about, and all that please God, even Jesus got a little bit excited, and I think the only time He ever did,

Luk_7:9 When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

and for all the lawyers who insisted on the Law HE was never impressed. If you want to remain under condemnation by the law, that is your right, but you have no right to put others under the same, that is a sin against God Himself.

Heb_7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

We are obedient to Christ for you it is and always be teh law, at your own insistence.... no Glory in Christ for it...

You don't think it takes faith to honour God's holy Sabbath? You don't believe the Sabbath is worthy of honour... Therefore you cannot observe it not having faith.

 

[brakelite]

oh you ignored this bit, you look for what you want to see.


Act_15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

You demonstrate point precisely. So according to you we do not need to honour the 6th commandment regarding murder, the 7th re adultery.... Is actually you and other non Sabbath keepers that have an issue with it. You pay lip service to the ten commandments, but in reality you only truly believe in 9 of them. And then when someone comes along and asks the question, do we really need to keep God's commandments, in order to defend your ignoring of the Sabbath, you have to deny all the commandments. You must lead a very confused life.

 

[mjrhealth]

You don't think it takes faith to honour God's holy Sabbath? You don't believe the Sabbath is worthy of honour... Therefore you cannot observe it not having faith.

Oh you mean this bit

Exo_31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

God never made a covenant with us gentiles and Jesus never gave the "law" to the gentiles.

or this bit

Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

you do know what the sabbath is do you not, you know what the law is "not resting, you working".

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

you spoke of unbelief, the law is the evidence of those who dont believe. You are trying to justify your religion and its keeping of the sabbath, as I said before, you can do as you wish but you and your religion have no right to lay that stumbling stone before others. Be it upon your own head.

 

[mjrhealth]

You demonstrate point precisely. So according to you we do not need to honour the 6th commandment regarding murder, the 7th re adultery.... Is actually you and other non Sabbath keepers that have an issue with it. You pay lip service to the ten commandments, but in reality you only truly believe in 9 of them. And then when someone comes along and asks the question, do we really need to keep God's commandments, in order to defend your ignoring of the Sabbath, you have to deny all the commandments. You must lead a very confused life.

Jesus is not confusing men his religions his understanding and the pride of man make the simple things in God overly complicated.

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

there are a lot of them around and as the bible puts it

Gal_6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh

the flesh loves to feel good, hey God look at me I can keep the law just like Jesus, am I not good.?? So you see you didnt have to send Him cause we are so good we can do it ourselves.

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

which is all you are doing. Its all about Jesus it as not about us, we get no glory out of this, it is just arrogance and the pride of man.

 

[brakelite]

which is all you are doing. Its all about Jesus it as not about us, we get no glory out of this, it is just arrogance and the pride of man.

Exactly the point I have been making. Without faith it is impossible to please God. Israel, because they had no faith, could not enter into God's rest. Just as Christians who have no faith, cannot obey the commandments. What does the commandments say? Thou shall ... Thou shall not...mjr, if you look at these from the spiritual'perspective of faith, these are promises. Thou shalt not commit adultery. For the Christian of faith, that is a promise. I shall write my laws in their minds and upon their hearts was the promise to Israel... God's people... That promise still stands for God's people.

 

[mjrhealth]

Exactly the point I have been making. Without faith it is impossible to please God. Israel, because they had no faith, could not enter into God's rest. Just as Christians who have no faith, cannot obey the commandments. What does the commandments say? Thou shall ... Thou shall not...mjr, if you look at these from the spiritual'perspective of faith, these are promises. Thou shalt not commit adultery. For the Christian of faith, that is a promise. I shall write my laws in their minds and upon their hearts was the promise to Israel... God's people... That promise still stands for God's people.

Faith says "Jesus you have done everything to save us" unbelief says, Jesus you didnt do enough now we must do this bit to prove to you how good we are. Religion always adds to the things of God, that is why you must persuse after the law, because you havnt accepted Grace , should i need to repeat.

Mat_9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

see mixing the law and grace which is what you are doing the old law / works vs th new Spirit and grace

and again

Luk_5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

those who have not tasted Grace and the spirit prefer the old law and works, as you insist upon, how many stumbling blocks are you willing to law before Gods children, and yet you yourself do not keep the law because no man can, it is an excuse to boast.

Lets see you boast before God.

 

[quietthinker]

you don't understand mjr and I because we don't add "loss of salvation" to Paul's Gopsel

to answer your question, we follow commandments out of thankfulness to the cross, not to save ourselve

the devil asks questions in the wrong way in as to deceive or trick te believer. God bless

Brakelite's question is not a trick nor is it to deceive. It is a straight forward reasonable question but because it does not fit into your understanding of how things should be you are quick to label him as a partner of the devil. The scripture recounts various incidences where those attempting to justify themselves used the same tactic. In so doing they condemn themselves.

 

[brakelite]

Faith says "Jesus you have done everything to save us" unbelief says, Jesus you didnt do enough now we must do this bit to prove to you how good we are. Religion always adds to the things of God, that is why you must persuse after the law, because you havnt accepted Grace , should i need to repeat.

Mat_9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

see mixing the law and grace which is what you are doing the old law / works vs th new Spirit and grace

and again

Luk_5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

those who have not tasted Grace and the spirit prefer the old law and works, as you insist upon, how many stumbling blocks are you willing to law before Gods children, and yet you yourself do not keep the law because no man can, it is an excuse to boast.

Lets see you boast before God.

That is a very brave assumption you are making, claiming those who choose to obey God are doing so because they are trying to prove how God they are.

Do you understand the following?
KJV Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Question... What kind of mind is not subject to the laws of God? What kind of mind is the righteousness of the law established in? If a man walks after the spirit, can he then be subject to the laws of God, seeing it is carnally minded people who cannot obey God's laws because they are at enmity with Him. If one is not at enmity with God, why could that person not keep God's laws by His grace and power? All the answers to the above questions are found in that small passage from Romans. Are you brave enough to provide us with the correct answers, or are you going to continue to avoid the question by throwing up straw men?

 

[mjrhealth]

That is a very brave assumption you are making, claiming those who choose to obey God are doing so because they are trying to prove how God they are.

no assumption if you knew Jesus and so many say they do, than you would no that Jesus demands no such, thing it is men who love to boast. Please, you say you keep the law, show me a day when you did not sin just one, and than you can answer to God for telling men to do what you do not.

This bit

Luk_11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

so many digging there own graves.

and should i again repeat.

Act_15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

You are shipwrecking the faith of so many newbies in Christ adding to the free gift of grace.

Have fun.

 

[brakelite]

no assumption if you knew Jesus and so many say they do, than you would no that Jesus demands no such, thing

"If ye love Me, keep my commandments". Were the commandments proclaimed upon Sinai Jesus's commandments? Did Jesus say follow Me? Did the apostle John, inspired by the holy Spirit, say we are to walk as Jesus walked? Did Jesus keep His Fathers commandments? Do you think Jesus made tables and chairs in his father's carpentry shop on the Sabbath?

thing it is men who love to boast. Please, you say you keep the law,

I never said any such thing. Either you don't understand English, or you are putting words into my mouth in an attempt to have leverage against me. I am asking you the question... Are Christians obligated to obey God? Why are you having such difficulty answering such a straight forward question?

Luk_11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Which particular commandment of the ten do you find a burden?

Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Here's another one of your attempts at putting words in my mouth. You know that the only way you can successfully avoid snswering my honest question is to pretend I'm demanding you keep commandments readily refuted. Just answer the question.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Brakelite's question is not a trick nor is it to deceive. It is a straight forward reasonable question but because it does not fit into your understanding of how things should be you are quick to label him as a partner of the devil. The scripture recounts various incidences where those attempting to justify themselves used the same tactic. In so doing they condemn themselves.

Nah, -they condemn themselves thru unbelief

Jhn 3 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

 

[H. Richard]

No, nothing personal. All hypothetical. My point is simply this. Many Christians today seem to believe that the law of God, His basic fundamental ten commandments, need not be obeyed. That there is therefore no real obligation to obey God at all, just believe in His love, and everything will be hunky dory. And tbh, I cannot fit the life of me reconcile how a Christian can justify any second, third, marriage while the previous partner still lives. Nor can I accept that a Christian who spends more time idolizing Netflix, ESPN , or attending the local football stadium instead of fellowship with His Lord through prayer, Bible study, or mission work for example, is not fraternising with the enemy.
I gotta confess, I have my own issues with the allurements of this world. I think we all do. I love rugby. Surfing. But I must bear in mind always that God MUST take precedence in all things. What he commands, is not a suggestion. Idolatry is still a sin. Adultery is still a sin. Theft is still a sin. Lying is still a sin. Not remembering to keep holy the Sabbath day is still a sin.
KJV Acts 17
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

You would have made a great Jew if you believe that keeping the law will give you salvation.

I just love the way the religious use scriptures to support their ideas. It is just like Jesus said it is, they study the scriptures thinking that in then they can find a formula they can use to gain salvation but they refuse to accept that Jesus himself has done it for them already.

You post as if you keep the 10 laws but you , and everyone that has a brain, knows that no one has ever been able to keep them but God himself. That is why He came, to keep it for us. But that explodes the brain of the religious.

 

[quietthinker]

You post as if you keep the 10 laws but you , and everyone that has a brain, knows that no one has ever been able to keep them but God himself. That is why He came, to keep it for us. But that explodes the brain of the religious.

Perhaps you could give explain why you dismiss God's laws as unnecessary just because you choose to break them?

By the way, I can't say I have ever considered myself 'religious'.....certainly not like a football fan or a business man whose world revolves around making money.....not even a church goer!

Guilt is not the burden of those keep the faith of Jesus and the Commandments of God. In fact these two aspects identify Gods people according to the book of Revelation.

 

[mjrhealth]

Perhaps you could give explain why you dismiss God's laws as unnecessary just because you choose to break them?

By the way, I can't say I have ever considered myself 'religious'.....certainly not like a football fan or a business man whose world revolves around making money.....not even a church goer!

Guilt is not the burden of those keep the faith of Jesus and the Commandments of God. In fact these two aspects identify Gods people according to the book of Revelation.

First off no one choose to break them that is religious speak,but than

Gal_6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

or Christ,

Joh_7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

no one does not even you...

 

[quietthinker]

Gal_6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

or Christ,

Joh_7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Are you aware that these texts are speaking to those who reject Jesus? In rejecting him they also reject God and his Law in spite of them giving lip service to it. Those in Galatians want unholy glory....those in John want to commit murder.

Using the scriptures to enamour yourself in rebellion while claiming Sonship is the high point of self deception.