Pay Your Tithe OR Spend Eternity In Hell?

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I still haven't read an answer to my question.

The church is defined in the Bible as a family/body with Christ as the head. God is called Father.

Who pays a tithe to belong to a family? Who pays a tithe to his or her body parts?

It goes without saying that money is given within the family to family members in need or just as a gift.
(When was the last time you received a gift from the church?)

The concept of tithe is based on Hebrew law. Are we subject to the law?
The Bible says no. Even Jews are no longer subject to the law.

Tithing is never mentioned in the New Testament. Could it be for a reason?

I read a great deal of text here on the support of the religious infrastructure, but there is nothing at all in the Bible about an institutional church. Unless of course you endorse the whore of Babylon?

Is that what we are doing with our money, when it should be given for more charitable purposes - worthwhile purposes?

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Ruth]

I still haven't read an answer to my question.

The church is defined in the Bible as a family/body with Christ as the head. God is called Father.

Who pays a tithe to belong to a family? Who pays a tithe to his or her body parts?

It goes without saying that money is given within the family to family members in need or just as a gift.
(When was the last time you received a gift from the church?)

The concept of tithe is based on Hebrew law. Are we subject to the law?
The Bible says no. Even Jews are no longer subject to the law.

Tithing is never mentioned in the New Testament. Could it be for a reason?

I read a great deal of text here on the support of the religious infrastructure, but there is nothing at all in the Bible about an institutional church. Unless of course you endorse the whore of Babylon?

Is that what we are doing with our money, when it should be given for more charitable purposes - worthwhile purposes?

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

I answered

So many church's are filled with sin...give your money directly to whom the Holy Spirit guides you, not a church organization.

Those who claim you go to hell if you do not tithe are are putting their faith in works, this Choo Thomas women is a false prophet and is being fooled by the devil.

Jesus said to His deciples: "I tell you the truth, it is very hard for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I’ll say it again—it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!”

25 The disciples were astounded. “Then who in the world can be saved?” they asked.

26 Jesus looked at them intently and said, “Humanly speaking, it is impossible. (HUMANLY SPEAKING IT IS IMPOSSIBLE).....But with God everything is possible.” Matthew 19
...........

Our job as Gods servants are to do good works for His kingdom, we will all be judged for our works befor His throne of judgment, but our works do not save us, as Jesus stated it is humanly impossible to save ourselves, only God can do this

 

[marksman]

Everyone should give to the church

Why?

What do you mean by the church?

Where does it say in the NT that everyone should give to the church?

What should they give to the church?

What is the church supposed to do with what is given to it?

Why does the church need to have money given to it?

I look forward to your answers to my questions.

To this day, denominational churches are treated legally, morally, and religiously like spiritual franchises. You cannot have a church unless you write a legally binding contract with the franchise holder - the religious corporation.

A very interesting comment which is more often than not true.

Here is a little anecdote that reveals the bondage of such.

I was at a house meeting of a church that my wife goes to and they were discussing the fact that the pastors salary swallows up about 80% of its income. They were trying to think of ways that this could be overcome.

​After much deliberation and no conclusion I said to them, "you could do what the scripture teaches." They all looked at me and one of them asked "what is that."

"Simple. You don't pay anyone to be a Christian. Everyone is an able minister of the New Covenant so you don't need to pay one particular person."

Reply. "That is not the way we do things."

Thought. No, I guess we can't be sidetracked by what the bible says. What the denomination says is the important thing.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

A tithe is not biblical for those living in this age. That being said we should realize that the Pastor of the church should have enough biblical knowledge not to ask you to tithe. You will not find that Pastor in a denominational church. They have become a business and as such they are the ones that steal from God.

Pastor - pays their self a good salary
drives a new car, paid for by church
takes housing allowance to pay for their home
eats out at churches expense

The church I have attended is non-denomination and does not ask for tithes. God's people give a good amount to support the church and that amount is reported to the congregation as to how much every Sunday. How can that be wrong when it is given from the heart not from guilt.

 

[williemac]

Here is something that Paul said about this.
1 Corinthians 9:9-14
New King James Version (NKJV)

9 For it is written in the law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain.” Is it oxen God is concerned about? 10 Or does He say it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written, that he who plows should plow in hope, and he who threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope. 11 If we have sown spiritual things for you, is it a great thing if we reap your material things? 12 If others are partakers of this right over you, are we not even more?
Nevertheless we have not used this right, but endure all things lest we hinder the gospel of Christ. 13 Do you not know that those who minister the holy things eat of the things of the temple, and those who serve at the altar partake of the offerings of the altar? 14 Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel.

This passage is often used to justify the payment of wages to spiritual leaders of the church. I for one, have no problem with the idea, but agree as well that each individual should never feel enticed or pressured to give, especially a certain amount such as the tithe (10%).
But if we are willing to sit in a building, partake in worship, listen to a preacher, and use the facility, it would be silly to expect this all to happen without any contribution from those who are enjoying the benefits of these things. It is common sense.

 

[jiggyfly]

Here is something that Paul said about this.
1 Corinthians 9:9-14
New King James Version (NKJV)

9 For it is written in the law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain.” Is it oxen God is concerned about? 10 Or does He say it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written, that he who plows should plow in hope, and he who threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope. 11 If we have sown spiritual things for you, is it a great thing if we reap your material things? 12 If others are partakers of this right over you, are we not even more?
Nevertheless we have not used this right, but endure all things lest we hinder the gospel of Christ. 13 Do you not know that those who minister the holy things eat of the things of the temple, and those who serve at the altar partake of the offerings of the altar? 14 Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel.

This passage is often used to justify the payment of wages to spiritual leaders of the church. I for one, have no problem with the idea, but agree as well that each individual should never feel enticed or pressured to give, especially a certain amount such as the tithe (10%).
But if we are willing to sit in a building, partake in worship, listen to a preacher, and use the facility, it would be silly to expect this all to happen without any contribution from those who are enjoying the benefits of these things. It is common sense.

I agree with what you said here, club members should expect to pay membership dues.

 

[marksman]

But if we are willing to sit in a building, partake in worship, listen to a preacher, and use the facility, it would be silly to expect this all to happen without any contribution from those who are enjoying the benefits of these things. It is common sense.

An interesting comment, one which reveals why there was no such thing as teaching about tithing in the new testament for the simple reason that the new testament church did not do any of this.

They did not sit in buildings they sat in homes; they didn't partake in worship led by a professional musician; they didn't listen to a preacher paid to lead the church; and their were no facilities to use except their own homes.

If the new testament church could sell houses and land to help those in need, I am damn sure that they didn't take up an offering for the use of their home as a meeting place.

Another point about this comment is that it shows how good we are at interpreting scripture according to what we do. In other words we make the scripture fit our experience, not our experience the scripture.

When that happens we are only looking to reinforce what is not in scripture.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Malachi 3
6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

7Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

 

[jiggyfly]

Hey Eric do you understand that there is an old and new covenant?

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Hey Eric do you understand that there is an old and new covenant?

This is in fact one of the great blindnesses, to equate in one's mind the tenants of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant as if the New Covenant were not superior and the old largely outmoded. One thing I did that really helped me to understand the difference was to read Hebrews........over and over......and over and over....again.....until I understood.

 

[marksman]

Malachi 3
6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

7Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

May I be so bold as to say this is typical of those who build a teaching based on one passage of scripture, ignoring the context and the revelation of scripture as a whole.

Is this passage for the church? Note the first words....Even from the days of your fathers...As the church had not been invented at that time it is obvious it is referring to others than the church.

Anyone with a modicum of understanding knows that this passage is written to the Jews who had not been obeying the commandments and ordinances given to them by God.

That being the case, saying that this is for the church and building a doctrine from it and imposing it as a law to be obeyed is nothing more than heresy and the product of ignorance in a man made religious system.

I did tithe but I don't now and as a result I give more than I ever did when I tithed.

 

[[email protected]]

And what have the pastors done with the money they've received as 'gifts to the Lord'?

Real estate management, improvements and expansions. TV ministries that are the butt of jokes inside and outside of the church. Growth of the church? Not so much. According to several legitimate surveys, church growth in the US was less than 3% in the past five years - and its dwindling not accelerating.

What have the pastors done with the money they've been given to advance the church? Little if anything - and their congregations aren't stupid either. Many are leaving the church because of liberalized heretical positions and policies. Many would rather go alone than associate with the demon church today.

In the pages of the NT we see evidence of a different sort of church. In the days of the apostles most 'churches' were what we'd call today 'home churches'. The venue wasn't a cathedral or a hunk of real estate owned by church, inc. Folks came to private homes to worship, to teach and to learn. In most cases, the Bible talks about money collected to support the saints in impoverished areas. Collections were NOT taken for a building project. So what happened?

In the days of Emperor Constantine, Christianity was accepted as an officially sanctioned religion. Overnight the religion went from persecution and from hiding in dark places to an institution of the government. The priestly class was born and real estate development began on massive scales. Cathedrals were 'necessary' where homes once flourished. Priests were the sole arbiter and keeper of the Biblical text instead of its being distributed among the faithful. In other words, Christianity was betrayed by government acceptance.

The Reformation came along and salvation by grace became the popular benchmark. The truth, long buried in Catholic religious pomposity, came out that it was the responsibility of each man to make his own decision about his own relationship with Christ. Yet the opportunity to influence the masses was too great a temptation to let go of and the Protestant movement fell into the same rut that Catholics had dwelt in for centuries.

The Spirit of God lives in the hearts and lives of men and women wholly dedicated to him. The grace of God is free and no man can impress his brother or sister with a religious tax simply for joining.

It should be noted here that in Islam the reverse is true and members had BETTER pay!!! Giving is one of the five pillars of Islam.

If autocratic taxation in religion is the reader's preference, I suggest you cease being a Christian heretic and go another way.

On the hand, the Lord loves a cheerful giver - and no slave EVER gave anything cheerfully. Jesus has come to set us free, or so the good book says. Do you believe that or not?

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Dodo_David]

Is there a particular reason why this thread was revived?