Yes, the tithe had everything to do with the Temple and the Sacrifices, so it pertained to Israel.jiggyfly said:
Pay Your Tithe OR Spend Eternity In Hell?
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Tithes are not required for salvation, but not paying tithes means that you aren't paying indulgences either, and if you pay for indulgences, it just goes to the tithe you owe.
Not damnable, but you're in for some more Purgatory.
Money is a very adequate thing for both repentance and good works to your church. It is the fruit of your labor.
Not damnable, but you're in for some more Purgatory.
Money is a very adequate thing for both repentance and good works to your church. It is the fruit of your labor.
Rocky Wiley
Active Member
Hi silenenceinmotion,SilenceInMotion said:
I will go one step further than jiggyfly asked.
What scripture do you base your statement on?
1 Corinthians 9:13-14jiggyfly said:
You know, surely, that those who do the temple’s work live on the
temple’s revenues; that those who preside at the altar share the altar’s
offerings. And so it is that the Lord has bidden the heralds of the gospel live by preaching the gospel.
Tithes are something God has instituted to support the clergy. When a person doesn't pay a tithe, they are doing one of two things: saving the money for themselves, which is a venial sin, or simply being greedy, which is a mortal sin. Protestants don't like the idea of tithing being so prominent in Christianity, but it's something one will accept if they are honest with themselves.
Also, Church teaching is based on both Scripture and the unwritten traditions of the apostles. In fact, the Church fathers put together the canon of Scripture to begin with, so it's bit of a conflict of interest for Protestants to constantly go on about what and what isn't in Scripture. Believe it or not, most everything the Chruch teaches is in fact backed by Scripture anyway. All you have to fo is go the Catholic Encyclopedia. The veneration of Mary for example is backed by almost 200 cross-examined verses in the Bible.
Just as I suspected.SilenceInMotion said:
Have you heard? All the members of the body of Christ are priests, not one above or more important than the other. Jesus said we are all brothers and sisters on the same level.
8 “Don’t let anyone call you ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters. 9 And don’t address anyone here on earth as ‘Father,’ for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father.10 And don’t let anyone call you ‘Teacher,’ for you have only one teacher, the Messiah.11 The greatest among you must be a servant.12 But those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.
Matt 23:8-12 (NLT)
The clergy/laity system is a man-made concept along with mandating tithing are based on twisted interpretation of some scriptures. Fortunately there are scriptures that clearly expose these deceptions.
9 But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light
1 Peter 2:9 (NLT)
19 So now you Gentiles are no longer strangers and foreigners. You are citizens along with all of God’s holy people. You are members of God’s family.20 Together, we are his house, built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets. And the cornerstone is Christ Jesus himself.21 We are carefully joined together in him, becoming a holy temple for the Lord.22 Through him you Gentiles are also being made part of this dwelling where God lives by his Spirit.
Eph 2:19-22 (NLT)
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
That is so true but you are not going to get any clergy agreeing with you because it would mean they would be out of a job.
[email protected]
Choir Loft
I think somebody hasn't been reading their Bible.SilenceInMotion said:
This sort of rubbish is the reason the church is self-destructing.
If you live by the law you will be judged by the law.
If you live by grace the punishment of the law has been taken in your place by Jesus.
How about we leave collection of money to the tithe mongers and the sons of Judas.
Those who are saved by grace are able to give gracefully out of the abundance of their hearts and no man can put a price tag, percentage or damnation upon it.
Purgatory is heresy. It's also a fiction story by Dante Aglieri along with the nine levels of hell, mud pit wrestling and Star Wars-ish foot torture*.
Its like being partly pregnant. Either you're under grace or you're not. If you are not, then no amount of money will buy your way into paradise. Those freed by the grace of God very often give above and beyond the requirements of the law. Those who give by the law generally give begrudgingly because they are squeezed to do that which they would rather not do.
No man can bribe God.
If you think you've found a way to do that, you're dreaming.
but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
(*) Star Wars #6 the droid pit where a robot was inverted and was having its feet burned with a hot iron is similar to Dante's second level of hell depicted in the Inferno section of his classic work The Divine Comedy (which was actually a satire except too many dullards took it seriously - sort of like Star Trek trekkies).
Are you a Christian or Catholic or enemy of protestant? This question is raised by a Christian here.SilenceInMotion said:
And As far as for the tithe, Did anyone of the Christians (Specifically) here find any apostle in the New testament put a rule to other churches to pay tithe?? We can see that in ACTs that dont eat blood type of rules.. But not should give tithe. As some one said here.. Are we living here by grace or by law? Can you live by law of old Testament?? You would have been stoned thousand times in your life till now.
We are living by the Grace of God. not by Law. Law was making us to sin more..! I was doing which i dont wish to do. My flesh was dominating me. What is the solution here.. Its Grace of Jesus Christ. We love His eternity and feel that this world is just dust. we wish to sell our whole property and put that infront of God. Why should i pay tithe only? i am ready to offer everything to God.
An Ox which is work in the farm has right to eat grass in that. likewise, we have to fulfill the preachers requirement (as if they are admitted their life to God and to serve Him ALONE). In the same time, we should do lot more things for God with that Money. there is no limit. Whatever we should do that whole heartened.
After the resurrection of Christ, He gone to meet Peter at fishing on the sea shore. Peter found nothing and Jesus asked him to put net in deep and Peter found the fish. Then Jesus already kept cooked fish and asked Peter to bring some fish to have the ready fish..! By this simple theme, we can easily understand that, We have to give something to get from God. God is helping us to earn that something.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Question: If that is the case, why is there no reference to clergy in the New Testament Church?
Answer: Because they did not have any. They had Elders who were chosen from within the congregation and who were tried and attested by the congregation and were older men....and married.
Their ministry was carried out for love, not money. The only people in the NTC who were supported financially were the poor and needy, the apostles and the widows who gave themselves to prayer for the church.
Yeah. NT deals with Love, grace and truthfulness. Money is not a matter here. We should help the needy with full heart and without expecting anything from them. There are lot more NT verses related to giving, but there is no measurement. If we give it without counting it. We will also get without count in return. Giving should not be advertised.
Amen Stefen, money is only a matter when "clergy" are trying to get unsaved people to empty their wallets. Other than that, those who are abiding in Christ, love to give as the Lord asks of them.stefen said:
Hey, that's one of my "fear preaching" statements!religusnut said:
Found here.
His "Eminence" does not know what this means, marksman.marksman said:
Mar 10:42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
Mar 10:43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
"These "princes of the church" will cross the chapel's threshold while chanting the names of angels, martyrs and saints – that Great Cloud of Witnesses who have gone before them."
"Princes of the church"? (sad thing is that they believe it, too)
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
I had one of those little "aha" moments today. I was presented with a need and thought I can afford a tenth. Then I thought "If I give a tenth, I am robbing God, because they need much more than that". So i decided not to rob God with a tenth and give $500 which was my income for a week.
A very relevant comment bearing in mind what the new Pope said. Being a Jesuit and committed to a vow of poverty, he immediately took the poverty route and turned his back on the riches pope's enjoy with his "I will travel in the bus with the boys" comment.
Going to be interesting seeing what he turns head over heels to rubbish the enormous wealth of the RCC and all the pomp and glitterati that popes use and wear.
Old wine, new wine skin, do you not understand, we know what Jesus said about trying to put the old wine into the new wineskin. Again so many will left without when He comes for His Bride, for they have not made themselves ready.
In all His Love
In all His Love
[email protected]
Choir Loft
No argument with this post at all.marksman said:
Until the time of Emperor Constantine, the new church was basically home-based. Worship, teaching and meetings were all held in private homes. Those who led the church worked secular jobs. Those who traveled, such as the apostles, received help to defray the expenses of their movements.
When Constantine endorsed Christianity he ruined it.
After the Emperor's endorsement, the church became an institution. As such an institution developed a priestly caste system. One could not become a priest or higher leader without the institutions blessing - forget about what God wanted such as free salvation. Now you had to pay and pay and pay. You had to pay to support the priests' exhorbitant life styles, you had to pay to house and feed them and you had to pay for elaborate places to worship. And if you sinned you could pay a fee for forgiveness. And so on, and so on, and so on.
During the reformation, the ideology of salvation by grace alone was gradually restored. Additionally, some small effort was made to break away from the religious institution origianally endorsed by Constantine and which had taken on a life of its own. Mostly it failed, though. The pope was replaced by regional pomposity and tithes to Rome were replaced by tithes to the local capital to support the religious franchise.
To this day, denominational churches are treated legally, morally, and religiously like spiritual franchises. You cannot have a church unless you write a legally binding contract with the franchise holder - the religious corporation. And you cannot be a leader - good, bad or indifferent - unless you seek and receive endorsement by the franchise leaders. The result is a corporate religious enterprise that exists ONLY to suck money out of its adherents. To increase profits, the philosophy is to make the franchise as attractive as possible to as many people as possible - hence those things which the Bible forbids are allowed and those things which the Bible allows are forbidden.
Make no mistake, the church tithe is a religious franchise fee that every member church is expected to collect. If you are a member of a denominational church, ask your pastor or member of the finance committee how much of the church's income is forwarded to the denominational headquarters/franchise holder. In some churches, the veil has been removed and its actually called the franchise.
Non-denominaltional churches split from the franchise mentality, but still retain the tax syndrome. You just can't get away from it.
As long as the church is an institution - small, medium or huge - it MUST pay the franchise fee and be subject to all the problems of an institution.
Jesus meant for the church to be a family - not a corporation. Does anyone pay a tithe to belong to a family?
and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
Everyone should give to the church. However the following verses suggest very logical reasons for giving. Thanksgiving Gen 28:20-22,Exodus 35:1-35 for a specific purpose, (which by the way was also voluntary Ex 36 3-6) Proverbs 19:17 is an example of someone giving to the needy.
Rom.11:34,35..." For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor? Or who has first given to Him and it shall be repaid to him? " Rom.8:32 (NKJ)...." He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also FREELY give us ALL things?
Give all you want, my friends, but if you think you are getting anything from God in return, think again. All things that come to us from God in this life are freely given (by grace). My financial life is no less blessed now than when I used to tithe. As for the Op title.... No wonder the masses turn away. The gospel means good news. When they hear some, maybe they will listen.
Give all you want, my friends, but if you think you are getting anything from God in return, think again. All things that come to us from God in this life are freely given (by grace). My financial life is no less blessed now than when I used to tithe. As for the Op title.... No wonder the masses turn away. The gospel means good news. When they hear some, maybe they will listen.
So many church's are filled with sin...give your money directly to whom the Holy Spirit guides you, not a church organization.
Those who claim you go to hell if you do not tithe are are putting their faith in works, this Choo Thomas women is a false prophet and is being fooled by the devil.
Jesus said to His deciples: "I tell you the truth, it is very hard for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I’ll say it again—it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!”
25 The disciples were astounded. “Then who in the world can be saved?” they asked.
26 Jesus looked at them intently and said, “Humanly speaking, it is impossible. (HUMANLY SPEAKING IT IS IMPOSSIBLE).....But with God everything is possible.” Matthew 19
...........
Our job as Gods servants are to do good works for His kingdom, we will all be judged for our works befor His throne of judgment, but our works do not save us, as Jesus stated it is humanly impossible to save ourselves, only God can do this
Those who claim you go to hell if you do not tithe are are putting their faith in works, this Choo Thomas women is a false prophet and is being fooled by the devil.
Jesus said to His deciples: "I tell you the truth, it is very hard for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I’ll say it again—it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!”
25 The disciples were astounded. “Then who in the world can be saved?” they asked.
26 Jesus looked at them intently and said, “Humanly speaking, it is impossible. (HUMANLY SPEAKING IT IS IMPOSSIBLE).....But with God everything is possible.” Matthew 19
...........
Our job as Gods servants are to do good works for His kingdom, we will all be judged for our works befor His throne of judgment, but our works do not save us, as Jesus stated it is humanly impossible to save ourselves, only God can do this
But money really is a large matter because it's a measure of your heart. Did you know that before contemporary Christian music artist Rich Mullins passed away in 1997, he lived on a "reverse tithe"? His music career was highly successful, but instead of enriching himself off the royalties, he lived on 10% and gave away the rest. Will his reward in heaven be greater? Of course it will because he invested in a heavenly bank account. Not everyone can give away so much, but our relationship to the Lord has a strong correlation to how tight a grip we have on our wealth and possessions, all of which will one day pass away.stefen said:
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