"Pentecostal" good and bad.

[tmlee]

(Shan Missions;34746)
BUT in Pentecostal doctrine, speaking in Tongue is a REQUIREMENT for SALVATION. They do not believe that believers are saved by Faith even they don't speak tongue. Another problem is they consider believers do not have Holy Spirit if they don't speak tongue. I do not accept this doctrine.I think I am free to express my own belief. Do I?
I dont accept this doctrine either....because it is not true. I attend a pentecostal church and what you just said is completely wrong. If you believe in Jesus for salvation, then you are saved. Thats what pentecostals believe. Speaking in tongues is not a requirement for salvation, thats just hogwash. Once you are reborn you recieve the Holy Ghost, but we believe you can constantly pursue a greater spiritual relationship with the Holy Spirit. Neither I or any pentecostal I know would accept that ''doctrine" either, so dont go around associating those bogus beliefs with us.

 

[Jordan]

(tmlee;34938)
(Shan Missions;34938)
BUT in Pentecostal doctrine, speaking in Tongue is a REQUIREMENT for SALVATION. They do not believe that believers are saved by Faith even they don't speak tongue. Another problem is they consider believers do not have Holy Spirit if they don't speak tongue. I do not accept this doctrine.I think I am free to express my own belief. Do I?
I dont accept this doctrine either....because it is not true. I attend a pentecostal church and what you just said is completely wrong. If you believe in Jesus for salvation, then you are saved. Thats what pentecostals believe. Speaking in tongues is not a requirement for salvation, thats just hogwash. Once you are reborn you recieve the Holy Ghost, but we believe you can constantly pursue a greater spiritual relationship with the Holy Spirit. Neither I or any pentecostal I know would accept that ''doctrine" either, so dont go around associating those bogus beliefs with us.Well to be honest, that's what the Pentecostal church I used to go said...Speaking in tongue (Works) is required for salvation...Yes it is unbiblical, but that's what a friend that goes there said so... "Need to speak in tongue to get the Holy Ghost" It's no wonder I don't trust anyone but Christ only.I thank God telling me to get out of there...JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.

 

[tmlee]

(thesuperjag;34942)
Well to be honest, that's what the Pentecostal church I used to go said...Speaking in tongue (Works) is required for salvation...Yes it is unbiblical, but that's what a friend that goes there said so... "Need to speak in tongue to get the Holy Ghost" It's no wonder I don't trust anyone but Christ only.I thank God telling me to get out of there...JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
Yeah well i have heard of a bunch of yahoos in Kansas who call themselves Baptists too. They go around holding signs saying God hates the world. I would not go around saying that all Baptists believe this just because a 100 member church in Kansas does. So why do it with the Pentecostal church. I am sure there are members of your church who dont believe exactly as you do. If these are you only experiences with Pentecostals then i would challenge you to make more of an effort to see what we really believe and not read about what non-pentecostals say or write about us online.

 

[Jordan]

(tmlee;34943)
(thesuperjag;34942)
Well to be honest, that's what the Pentecostal church I used to go said...Speaking in tongue (Works) is required for salvation...Yes it is unbiblical, but that's what a friend that goes there said so... "Need to speak in tongue to get the Holy Ghost" It's no wonder I don't trust anyone but Christ only.I thank God telling me to get out of there...JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
Yeah well i have heard of a bunch of yahoos in Kansas who call themselves Baptists too. They go around holding signs saying God hates the world. I would not go around saying that all Baptists believe this just because a 100 member church in Kansas does.So why do it with the Pentecostal church. I am sure there are members of your church who dont believe exactly as you do. If these are you only experiences with Pentecostals then i would challenge you to make more of an effort to see what we really believe and not read about what non-pentecostals say or write about us online.I'm not interested in attacking the church building. I am only interested in attacking the doctrine of men, that leads His souls astray.I no longer go to a church, because it is Christ only is all I need, and His word. But however I went two other churches, Pentecostal was my 3rd and final church I went. That friend I speak of...goes to a pentecostal church and no others...It is always like this, Christ vs denominations / religions.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.

 

[tmlee]

(thesuperjag;34945)
I'm not interested in attacking the church building. I am only interested in attacking the doctrine of men, that leads His souls astray.I no longer go to a church, because it is Christ only is all I need, and His word. But however I went two other churches, Pentecostal was my 3rd and final church I went. That friend I speak of...goes to a pentecostal church and no others...It is always like this, Christ vs denominations / religions.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
I am first and foremost a Christian who happens to attend a Pentecostal church, so i guess that makes me pentecostal. Christ is all i need as well, and i know that I am saved by his blood. As far as your belief that Pentecostal doctrine is unbiblical...your gonna have to show me scripture because i trust God only. You telling me that my soul is being led astray doesnt bother me one bit because you, me, and everyone else are nothing and God is everything. So challenge my beliefs with God's word. Show me where it says that people will not speak in tongues, people will not lay hands on the sick and they will recover, people will not prophecy, and that signs and wonders will follow those who believe. I believe everything in the Bible. God was the same then, now, and forever.....so his word is the same then, now and forever. So disprove the pentecostal doctrine with God's word, and show me where i am being led astray.

 

[Shan Missions]

(tmlee;34947)
I am first and foremost a Christian who happens to attend a Pentecostal church, so i guess that makes me pentecostal. Christ is all i need as well, and i know that I am saved by his blood. As far as your belief that Pentecostal doctrine is unbiblical...your gonna have to show me scripture because i trust God only. You telling me that my soul is being led astray doesnt bother me one bit because you, me, and everyone else are nothing and God is everything. So challenge my beliefs with God's word. Show me where it says that people will not speak in tongues, people will not lay hands on the sick and they will recover, people will not prophecy, and that signs and wonders will follow those who believe. I believe everything in the Bible. God was the same then, now, and forever.....so his word is the same then, now and forever. So disprove the pentecostal doctrine with God's word, and show me where i am being led astray.
Please show me where the Bible says "if you don't speak tongue, you are not saved?" This is what Pentecostal belief. THANKS.

 

[tmlee]

(Shan Missions;34949)
Please show me where the Bible says "if you don't speak tongue, you are not saved?" This is what Pentecostal belief. THANKS.
Once again, this is not a belief of the majority of pentecostals. If you say that you have spoken to pentecostals who belief this, then i am not one to call you a liar. I can only speak for myself and i have never heard anyone claim this to be true. But to answer your question, I cant show you, because its not in there, which is why i dont believe it. I am a pentecostal who does not speak in tongues and I am saved. Its only the non-pentecostals on this post who are claiming that this is what we believe. I didnt read a post where a pentecostal claims this.

 

[Thunder1]

(Shan Missions;34949)
Please show me where the Bible says "if you don't speak tongue, you are not saved?" This is what Pentecostal belief. THANKS.
We have already said it's wrong teaching, TOTAL RUBBISH. Pentecostal church that I attend DOES NOT TEACH THAT, so not all pentecostals are like that. If you meet anyone, who tells you that lie, why not go against it yourself, you sure have guts to tell them the truth, haven't you. Are you a victim of your circumstances or the victor in Christ?

 

[Jordan]

(tmlee;34947)
(thesuperjag;34945)
I'm not interested in attacking the church building. I am only interested in attacking the doctrine of men, that leads His souls astray.I no longer go to a church, because it is Christ only is all I need, and His word. But however I went two other churches, Pentecostal was my 3rd and final church I went. That friend I speak of...goes to a pentecostal church and no others...It is always like this, Christ vs denominations / religions.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
I am first and foremost a Christian who happens to attend a Pentecostal church, so i guess that makes me pentecostal. Christ is all i need as well, and i know that I am saved by his blood. As far as your belief that Pentecostal doctrine is unbiblical...your gonna have to show me scripture because i trust God only. You telling me that my soul is being led astray doesnt bother me one bit because you, me, and everyone else are nothing and God is everything. So challenge my beliefs with God's word. Show me where it says that people will not speak in tongues, people will not lay hands on the sick and they will recover, people will not prophecy, and that signs and wonders will follow those who believe. I believe everything in the Bible. God was the same then, now, and forever.....so his word is the same then, now and forever. So disprove the pentecostal doctrine with God's word, and show me where i am being led astray.Do you not speak in English? If you meant speaking an unknown tongue, there is no such thing as an unknown tongue as the word is in italics and that word was added by men. There is Spanish, French, Chinese, Japanese, English tongue etc, but there is no unknown tongue exists.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.

 

[tmlee]

(thesuperjag;34961)
Do you not speak in English? If you meant speaking an unknown tongue, there is no such thing as an unknown tongue as the word is in italics and that word was added by men. There is Spanish, French, Chinese, Japanese, English tongue etc, but there is no unknown tongue exists.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
Mark 16:15 Talks about the signs that will follow those who believe. One of those signs is that we will speak in NEW tongues. It talks about healing the sick and casting out devils too. These are two more things that many dont believe still happen today. But they happened then and God is the same then, now and forever.And as far as the "unknown" goes....do you think they just randomly threw the word in their for giggles. Are you saying that the Book of truth is not truthful. I have my faith and I know what the Bible says about this. Rather than picking apart the book and throwing words away that disagree with your beliefs, why dont you just read it for what its worth. I have not gone into research to figure out what words are not translated 100% based on the original language of the Bible. I dont build faith disproving God's word, my faith soars from hearing it....just as it is.....just as it was.....and just as its gonna be until Jesus comes back.1Corinthians 14

 

[Jordan]

(tmlee;34966)
(thesuperjag;34961)
Do you not speak in English? If you meant speaking an unknown tongue, there is no such thing as an unknown tongue as the word is in italics and that word was added by men. There is Spanish, French, Chinese, Japanese, English tongue etc, but there is no unknown tongue exists.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
Mark 16:15 Talks about the signs that will follow those who believe. One of those signs is that we will speak in NEW tongues. It talks about healing the sick and casting out devils too. These are two more things that many dont believe still happen today. But they happened then and God is the same then, now and forever.And as far as the "unknown" goes....do you think they just randomly threw the word in their for giggles. Are you saying that the Book of truth is not truthful. I have my faith and I know what the Bible says about this. Rather than picking apart the book and throwing words away that disagree with your beliefs, why dont you just read it for what its worth. I have not gone into research to figure out what words are not translated 100% based on the original language of the Bible. I dont build faith disproving God's word, my faith soars from hearing it....just as it is.....just as it was.....and just as its gonna be until Jesus comes back.1 Corinthians 14I'm not the one that builds up a faith that is laid down on a sand here.Acts 2:6 - Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.Acts 2:8 - And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?Acts 2:9-11 - Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.

 

[kalixx]

I am no expert in these matters but I wonder does not Paul suggest that speaking in tongues does not necessarily mean speaking in a known or recognisable language for those who hear, rather "he who speaks in a tongue edifies himself" (1 Cor 14:4). And that there should be interpretation of that tongue if it is for the edification of others.As Paul put it: "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intellible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue." (1 Cor 14:18-19.)I also have friends in the Pentecostal church and I have never heard them claim that tongues are essential to salvation (although I, too, have heard this "rumour"). Their interest seems to lean more heavily on Paul's words to the Thessalonians not to, "put out the Spirit's fire." ( 1 Thess 5:19). In other words, maybe we are able to open or shut our minds to the possibility of receiving gifts of the Spirit. But this is not a matter of salvation...

 

[Jordan]

(kalixx;34980)
I am no expert in these matters but I wonder does not Paul suggest that speaking in tongues does not necessarily mean speaking in a known or recognisable language for those who hear, rather "he who speaks in a tongue edifies himself" (1 Cor 14:4). And that there should be interpretation of that tongue if it is for the edification of others.As Paul put it: "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intellible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue." (1 Cor 14:18-19.)I also have friends in the Pentecostal church and I have never heard them claim that tongues are essential to salvation (although I, too, have heard this "rumour"). Their interest seems to lean more heavily on Paul's words to the Thessalonians not to, "put out the Spirit's fire." ( 1 Thess 5:19). In other words, maybe we are able to open or shut our minds to the possibility of receiving gifts of the Spirit. But this is not a matter of salvation...
Paul thanked God that He spake in more foreign tongues than all of us.Like Spanish, French, Chinese, Japanese, Hebrew, Greek, Latin etc.This has nothing to do with unknown tongue as they don't exist at all period.Another thing, I rather speak five English words, rather thousands of words of foreign languages that I don't understand at all.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.

 

[kalixx]

(thesuperjag;34985)
Paul thanked God that He spake in more foreign tongues than all of us.Like Spanish, French, Chinese, Japanese, Hebrew, Greek, Latin etc.This has nothing to do with unknown tongue as they don't exist at all period.Another thing, I rather speak five English words, rather thousands of words of foreign languages that I don't understand at all.
Hi Superjag, You are most probably right. However the verse I quoted was from the NIV, whereas the same verse in the KJV states "......ten thousand words in an unknown tongue." Now that may well only mean unknown to Paul and/or his listeners but still an actual human language, but I don't really see any reason why Paul would want to speak in a human foreign language that neither he nor his congregation could understand. The situation in Acts when the apostles spoke in many tongues had a different purpose to that described by Paul, where the tongue is for one's own edification. What possible edification can there be if one is only speaking with another human tongue that noone even understands? Why would Paul demand interpretation if he could just as easily speak in a language that everyone could understand? Why would this be considered a gift of the Spirit if it only served to baffle everyone? Paul also speaks of the Spirit helping us by interceding with groans that words cannot express (Rom 8:26-27) - but maybe that is another matter, or maybe not, I don't know

 

[Jordan]

(kalixx;34996)
(thesuperjag;34985)
Paul thanked God that He spake in more foreign tongues than all of us.Like Spanish, French, Chinese, Japanese, Hebrew, Greek, Latin etc.This has nothing to do with unknown tongue as they don't exist at all period.Another thing, I rather speak five English words, rather thousands of words of foreign languages that I don't understand at all.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
Hi Superjag, You are most probably right. However the verse I quoted was from the NIV, whereas the same verse in the KJV states "......ten thousand words in an unknown tongue." Now that may well only mean unknown to Paul and/or his listeners but still an actual human language, but I don't really see any reason why Paul would want to speak in a human foreign language that neither he nor his congregation could understand. The situation in Acts when the apostles spoke in many tongues had a different purpose to that described by Paul, where the tongue is for one's own edification. What possible edification can there be if one is only speaking with another human tongue that noone even understands? Why would Paul demand interpretation if he could just as easily speak in a language that everyone could understand? Why would this be considered a gift of the Spirit if it only served to baffle everyone? Paul also speaks of the Spirit helping us by interceding with groans that words cannot express (Rom 8:26-27) - but maybe that is another matter, or maybe not, I don't know

I Corinthians 14:27 - If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.That is why speaking in a foreign language is useless if there is no one understanding on what you/he/me/etc is saying. That's why we need an interpreter to understand to edify the church. (Body of believers)Besides God want us to understand Him and His words, not to understand. God is no author of confusions.I Corinthians 14:33 - For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.

 

[Christina]

It isnt O.K. to prevert the word of God tongues means speaking languages of other nations it never met muttering NEVER ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT SAY TONGUES IS BIBLICAL YES SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE OF FORIEGN NATION TO FOLLOW THE COMMAND GO OUT AND PREACH THE GOSPEL TO WORLD IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE OR HAVE AN INTERPTER WITH YOU THAT IS ALL THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT IT ANYTHING ELSE IS NOT IN THE BIBLEThats not my opinion that s what the book says. Period. Glossa Greek word for languages of other Nations.because you choose to make it something differnt doesnt mean its written there is no prayer muttering there never was any UNKNOWN it was a word added by men All the arguing in the World doesnt change anything they still use the same term tongue for forgein languages today.If YOU WAKE TOMARROW AND CAN SPEAK OR UNDERSTAND A NEW FORGEIGN LANGUAGE YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN A GIFT if you mutter or pray in muttering your choice but it has not a thing to do with the GIFT OF HOLY SPIRIT COMING ON YOU

 

[Ronnie seeks His face]

(kriss;35001)
It isnt O.K. to prevert the word of God tongues means speaking languages of other nations it never met muttering NEVER ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT SAY TONGUES IS BIBLICAL YES SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE OF FORIEGN NATION TO FOLLOW THE COMMAND GO OUT AND PREACH THE GOSPEL TO WORLD IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE OR HAVE AN INTERPTER WITH YOU THAT IS ALL THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT IT ANYTHING ELSE IS NOT IN THE BIBLEThats not my opinion that s what the book says. Period. Glossa Greek word for languages of other Nations.because you choose to make it something differnt doesnt mean its written there is no prayer muttering there never was any UNKNOWN it was a word added by men All the arguing in the World doesnt change anything they still use the same term tongue for forgein languages today.If YOU WAKE TOMARROW AND CAN SPEAK OR UNDERSTAND A NEW FORGEIGN LANGUAGE YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN A GIFT if you mutter or pray in muttering your choice but it has not a thing to do with the GIFT OF HOLY SPIRIT COMING ON YOU
What does this mean then? 1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. Please explain.

 

[setfree]

(Unorthodox Christian;34931)
I'm non-denominational but I believe in the Oneness of God. I believe in the Restored Gifts. I am against Denomination, but if there's any denomination that I had the best experience with it was the Oneness Pentocostal Apostolic Church. But later on I came to a greater Message, one to call me out of denomination. I do hope you find your Way, Ask the Lord in Jesus Christ's Name! Denomination is not the answer for you, the Holy Ghost is.
I agree I believe that the denominations are from Men!

 

[Ronnie seeks His face]

(setfree;35005)
I agree I believe that the denominations are from Men!
Right you are

 

[Christina]

(Ronnie seeks His face;35004)
What does this mean then? 1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. Please explain.
THATS EXACTLY THE POINT THE WORD UNKNOWN IS NOT IN THE MANUSCRIPTS it never was in the book/Bible it is added by men thats why it is most often in Parenthesesand the word tongue is the greek word Glossa the defintion of the word is lanuages of other nations (forgeign langues) it does not say anything about unknown or muttering it simply says if you speak a differnt Language and no one understands you you speak mysteries. If I speak the gospel to you in Chinese will you understand me??????????