Perpetual Forgiveness

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,246
851
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Does God need to repeatedly forgive His children? What would such a need be, seeing He knows all we desire is to please Him; and this He assures (Phl 2:13). There is allowance for babes in Christ, who may yet have a habitual sin to give up, but He eventually brings all to the same knowledge, understanding and application concerning willful sins. If one does not eventually mature enough in Christ, it manifests yet to be reborn.

The sins of Christians eventually become more in the way of impulse, like wrath, jealousy, envy, selfish- pride, etc. which are sins that are not intentional, “presumptuous” (Num 15:30) or “willingly” (Heb 10:25). These spring up out of the moment and are not planned or intended. When believers sin unwillingly they confess, i.e. admit the wrong, or the Spirit will continue to convict until you confess, because now you belong to God, and He will not let you go your own way anymore. We confess, then thank God for His continued forgiveness.

It’s not that God has to go in and out of forgiveness, but it’s a need-only-once application during the initial confession of our salvation—from there on He will always be “faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1Jn 1:9). Otherwise this would mean He has to keep repeating His cleansing from our sins, which is not necessary; same principle as being forgiven “once for all (Heb 10:10). Let’s not forget that “by one offering He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified” (Heb 10:14).

Our sanctification has to do with no longer being part of the “carnal mind,” nor part of the “flesh” (Rom 8:7, 9). God only sees the believer in Him and His Son, never again after the “old man” (flesh).

The Lord’s Prayer was to the Jew under the Law, which was forgiving to be forgiven. Now, it’s always forgive, and love as He loved, which is different from love according to how you love yourself.

We are never out of His forgiveness, any more than we are ever out of His love in Christ!


God be blessed!
 

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,333
2,165
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Does God need to repeatedly forgive His children? What would such a need be, seeing He knows all we desire is to please Him; and this He assures (Phl 2:13). There is allowance for babes in Christ, who may yet have a habitual sin to give up, but He eventually brings all to the same knowledge, understanding and application concerning willful sins. If one does not eventually mature enough in Christ, it manifests yet to be reborn.

The sins of Christians eventually become more in the way of impulse, like wrath, jealousy, envy, selfish- pride, etc. which are sins that are not intentional, “presumptuous” (Num 15:30) or “willingly” (Heb 10:25). These spring up out of the moment and are not planned or intended. When believers sin unwillingly they confess, i.e. admit the wrong, or the Spirit will continue to convict until you confess, because now you belong to God, and He will not let you go your own way anymore. We confess, then thank God for His continued forgiveness.

It’s not that God has to go in and out of forgiveness, but it’s a need-only-once application during the initial confession of our salvation—from there on He will always be “faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1Jn 1:9). Otherwise this would mean He has to keep repeating His cleansing from our sins, which is not necessary; same principle as being forgiven “once for all (Heb 10:10). Let’s not forget that “by one offering He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified” (Heb 10:14).

Our sanctification has to do with no longer being part of the “carnal mind,” nor part of the “flesh” (Rom 8:7, 9). God only sees the believer in Him and His Son, never again after the “old man” (flesh).

The Lord’s Prayer was to the Jew under the Law, which was forgiving to be forgiven. Now, it’s always forgive, and love as He loved, which is different from love according to how you love yourself.

We are never out of His forgiveness, any more than we are ever out of His love in Christ!


God be blessed!

I agree with this post as far as John has said in 1 John 1:7, but I still have a problem with some of the individual sins you keep quoting as a normal impulse of human nature, except possibly for a very young Christian, as they just cannot be committed while walking in the Spirit, because they are in fact identified as sins that will keep us out of the Kingdom of God. (Maybe it is more normal for those with testosterone. LOL)

How long do you surmise that wrath, jealousy, and envy with a cycle of sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent go on and still show evidence that the Spirit is actually in control? These cannot be entirely unintentional.

1 John 1:7
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,246
851
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I still have a problem with some of the individual sins you keep quoting as a normal impulse of human nature, except possibly for a very young Christian, as they just cannot be committed while walking in the Spirit
Hi, and thanks for your reply! When John wrote that we "cannot sin" it is in reference to desiring after sin, sinning "willfully" (Heb 10:26) or "presumptuously" (Num 15:28, 30). The sins of one reborn are never intentional. What believer would ever want to purposely offend God? The whole point is that the "old man" can no longer cause us to desire to sin (Ro 6:14; 8:9). I believe God left the old man (sin nature) in us to continue to learn from it, by exercising our faith in His forgiveness.

Please give Gill a test-read on 1Jn 3:
 
Last edited:

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,333
2,165
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hi, and thanks for your reply! When John wrote that we "cannot sin" it is in reference to desiring after sin, sinning "willfully" (Heb 10:26) or "presumptuously" (Num 15:28, 30). The sins of one reborn are never intentional. What believer would ever want to purposely offend God? The whole point is that the "old man" can no longer cause us to desire to sin (Ro 6:14; 8:9). I believe God left the old man (sin nature) in us to continue to learn from it, by exercising our faith in His forgiveness.

Please give Gill a test-read on 1Jn 3:
I printed a copy to read in bed. What denomination is Gil, you must like him a lot.
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,246
851
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I printed a copy to read in bed. What denomination is Gil, you must like him a lot.
Gill (1697-1771) was the first Baptist to produce a Bible commentary on the entire Bible. He was most noticed for his studies in Jewish writings, literature and customs. He is one of two commentators I've been using for 20 years now, and his comments are quite exhaustive and knowledgeable. The other Commentator I use is Albert Barnes (1798 – December 24, 1870) but I don't think he is as masterful as Gill, but He does well in his commenting.

There's a third I use but not very often, just when the other two might have different comments on the same subject. Joseph Benson (1749 – 16 February 1821).

I discovered that the classic commentators are well in advance of modern theologians, even with all the extra knowledge they have over the classics. Many if not most modern commentators are in the dark in comparison; they still are unaware that the Critical Text is corrupt. The translations just have a lot of advanced knowledge of languages, but this can't compare with God given wisdom and talent of the classics.

Remember, none of the modern translations (Critical Text) can claim plenary inspiration like those from the Majority Text, because they have an excessive amount of omissions of Scripture; and they often read so different that they are not representing the traditional Bibles, like the KJV or NKJV which are still the primary leading Bibles of the times; and only they and others like them contain the entire Word (Mat 4:4).

God bless your Family!
 

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,333
2,165
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gill (1697-1771) was the first Baptist to produce a Bible commentary on the entire Bible. He was most noticed for his studies in Jewish writings, literature and customs. He is one of two commentators I've been using for 20 years now, and his comments are quite exhaustive and knowledgeable. The other Commentator I use is Albert Barnes (1798 – December 24, 1870) but I don't think he is as masterful as Gill, but He does well in his commenting.

There's a third I use but not very often, just when the other two might have different comments on the same subject. Joseph Benson (1749 – 16 February 1821).

I discovered that the classic commentators are well in advance of modern theologians, even with all the extra knowledge they have over the classics. Many if not most modern commentators are in the dark in comparison; they still are unaware that the Critical Text is corrupt. The translations just have a lot of advanced knowledge of languages, but this can't compare with God given wisdom and talent of the classics.

Remember, none of the modern translations (Critical Text) can claim plenary inspiration like those from the Majority Text, because they have an excessive amount of omissions of Scripture; and they often read so different that they are not representing the traditional Bibles, like the KJV or NKJV which are still the primary leading Bibles of the times; and only they and others like them contain the entire Word (Mat 4:4).

God bless your Family!
I agree that for me the older the better, unless they are spouting Calvinism. My favorite is from 1929, Abingdon Bible Commentary.

I know there are many Baptist denominations and not all are Calvinist. What is your underlying foundation?
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,246
851
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I agree that for me the older the better, unless they are spouting Calvinism. My favorite is from 1929, Abingdon Bible Commentary.

I know there are many Baptist denominations and not all are Calvinist. What is your underlying foundation?
Everybody who is supposed to be saved will be saved (Jhn 18:9); because their name is in the Book of Life.

I think Calvin misses it when thinking that God only chooses certain people to salvation, unless his intention is that God only chooses people whom He knows will receive it; and I also think Arminius misses it when he thinks one can loose their salvation. God is not a respecter of persons: Acts 10:34; Mat 22:16; Luk 20:21; Rom 2:11; Gal 2:6; Eph 6:9; Col 3:25; 1Pe 1:17; nor one can loose their salvation, because everything He does in Christ is eternal!

If the Abingdon Bible Commentary contains 1Jn 5:7, it is from the correct Text Type codices.
 

1stCenturyLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2018
5,333
2,165
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Everybody who is supposed to be saved will be saved (Jhn 18:9); because their name is in the Book of Life.

I think Calvin misses it when thinking that God only chooses certain people to salvation, unless his intention is that God only chooses people whom He knows will receive it; and I also think Arminius misses it when he thinks one can loose their salvation. God is not a respecter of persons: Acts 10:34; Mat 22:16; Luk 20:21; Rom 2:11; Gal 2:6; Eph 6:9; Col 3:25; 1Pe 1:17; nor one can loose their salvation, because everything He does in Christ is eternal!

If the Abingdon Bible Commentary contains 1Jn 5:7, it is from the correct Text Type codices.

Thank you! Another verse to add to my chapter (in my book). John 18:9 has the key word "gave" that throughout his gospel John uses ONLY when he is referring to His disciples the apostles, not all who will be saved from their preaching. When not known people make up things like the OSAS heresy from the one in John 10. But is so clear in John 17 that those who do advanced studies can plainly see it.

Now I didn't see that from a commentary about the word give/gave/given. But I did for John's key word say/says in 1 John 2 so you can understand chapter one. Now that I know the Hebrew apostles use key words, especially John, I keep my spiritual eyes open. LOL 1 John 1: 6, 8 and 10 are all unregenerates.
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,246
851
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thank you! Another verse to add to my chapter (in my book). John 18:9 has the key word "gave" that throughout his gospel John uses ONLY when he is referring to His disciples the apostles, not all who will be saved from their preaching. When not known people make up things like the OSAS heresy from the one in John 10. But is so clear in John 17 that those who do advanced studies can plainly see it.

Now I didn't see that from a commentary about the word give/gave/given. But I did for John's key word say/says in 1 John 2 so you can understand chapter one. Now that I know the Hebrew apostles use key words, especially John, I keep my spiritual eyes open. LOL 1 John 1: 6, 8 and 10 are all unregenerates.
Like what you are saying, and God bless!