Persecuted for printing the Bible:

[tom55]

Surely you jest! Those that continue in those religions are just as guilty and yes it does matter. It is still run by misguided men.

Of course the protestant are guilty of the same. I said that in my writings.

It started before Paul died. Those under the Law of Moses insisted that Paul's converts go under the law. The RCC is a blend of the Jewish religion and Paul's gospel of grace. The RCC continues to place people under the Law. It is seen in all the pageantry and rituals that the RCC has come up with. The idols that they bow down to and kiss (the man made cross). It is seen in the outlandish robes and hats they wear so that the peasantry can see their elevated position above them. It can be seen in the Greek Orthodox church where the vial is seen behind their pulpit. The vial that was ripped open when Jesus died is still there in their churches. --- And yes it is seen in the Protestant churches too.

In the early protestant churches the preachers wore the same clothes as the rest of the men wore. Now they too wear robes to show their elevated position above others. Somehow I just can't see Paul wearing clothes that set him apart from others.

Under grace all men are equal. There is not an elevated class above the rest of mankind.

Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

Jesus told us to obey the law of those that sit in Moses seat (leaders of the Church) and at no time in the NT are we told to get rid of "the outlandish robes and hats" (vestments). So if you are of the Sola Scriptura belief then you should be obeying the teachers of the law since that is what Jesus told you to do AND we don't have to get rid of the vestments which was ordered by God in Exodus 28.

As you can see Jesus attacked the Jewish leaders for a number of sins but he never condemned their priestly garb. The early Church didn't use the Old Testament vestments because Christians didn't want to identify their leaders with the Jewish priesthood. It seems you have a problem with the vestments which set church leaders apart from the laity. Those vestments show hierarchical distinctions. As you know the New Testament is full of hierarchical distinctions. It seems you also have an anti-incarnational attitude which is the view that the use of anything material (idols) as superstitious. Your distaste for vestments is but one example of this and just because someone bows down to kiss a "man made cross" does not mean they are idol worshiping. But I suspect you knew that already!

There is an "elevated class" in The Church and it is clearly spelled out in Scripture.....Old and New! That elevated class (Shepherds) receives the same grace as all who are in the church but they are still leaders of the "peasantry" (sheep).

 

[H. Richard]

Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

Jesus told us to obey the law of those that sit in Moses seat (leaders of the Church) and at no time in the NT are we told to get rid of "the outlandish robes and hats" (vestments). So if you are of the Sola Scriptura belief then you should be obeying the teachers of the law since that is what Jesus told you to do AND we don't have to get rid of the vestments which was ordered by God in Exodus 28.

As you can see Jesus attacked the Jewish leaders for a number of sins but he never condemned their priestly garb. The early Church didn't use the Old Testament vestments because Christians didn't want to identify their leaders with the Jewish priesthood. It seems you have a problem with the vestments which set church leaders apart from the laity. Those vestments show hierarchical distinctions. As you know the New Testament is full of hierarchical distinctions. It seems you also have an anti-incarnational attitude which is the view that the use of anything material (idols) as superstitious. Your distaste for vestments is but one example of this and just because someone bows down to kiss a "man made cross" does not mean they are idol worshiping. But I suspect you knew that already!

There is an "elevated class" in The Church and it is clearly spelled out in Scripture.....Old and New! That elevated class (Shepherds) receives the same grace as all who are in the church but they are still leaders of the "peasantry" (sheep).

When Jesus said those things he was talking to the Jews who were under the law of Moses and the religious teachers of the Law of Moses and in priests. Under grace there is only one high priest, Jesus Christ.

Your theology is a mix of law and grace and is not the true gospel of grace. Under grace all are equal. Religious men love the law because they think it creates classes and of course they are in the upper class over others.

Mark 12:38-40
Then He said to them in His teaching, "Beware of the scribes, who desire to go around in long robes, love greetings in the marketplaces,
39 the best seats in the synagogues, and the best places at feasts,
40 who devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. These will receive greater condemnation."
NKJV

Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
NKJV

 

[tom55]

When Jesus said those things he was talking to the Jews who were under the law of Moses and the religious teachers of the Law of Moses and in priests. Under grace there is only one high priest, Jesus Christ.

Your theology is a mix of law and grace and is not the true gospel of grace. Under grace all are equal. Religious men love the law because they think it creates classes and of course they are in the upper class over others.

Mark 12:38-40
Then He said to them in His teaching, "Beware of the scribes, who desire to go around in long robes, love greetings in the marketplaces,
39 the best seats in the synagogues, and the best places at feasts,
40 who devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. These will receive greater condemnation."
NKJV

Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
NKJV

Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: “The teachers of the law.....sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you."

You should learn the scriptural history of Moses seat.

If you want to disobey Jesus. Go ahead. I plan to listen to him.

 

[tom55]

It is true that there were numerous copies of the scriptures in Britain before Tyndale. These however were not derived from the corrupted Latin Vulgate, but from the Syriac or Peshitta translations of Lucian of Antioch. These formed the basis of the Cristian faith of such venerable Christians such as Dinooth, Aiden, Patrick, Columba and Columbanus of the Celtic church. Also the Waldensian Christians of northern Italy and southern France, as well as the Gaelic believers throughout Asia minor. The Christianity which came to these Celtic and Gaelic people was apostolic...it came direct from missionaries from Palestine and Syria, as did their scriptures, not from Rome, which by that time was slowly being corrupted by Origen, whose philosophies has been inculcated into Jeromes Bible, with Eusebius' editorial help he also being a fan of Origen.
Furthermore, Dr. Adam Clarke claims that the examination of Irish customs reveals that they have elements which were imported into Ireland from Asia Minor by early Christians. Since Italy, France, and Great Britain were once provinces of the Roman Empire, the first translations of the Bible by the early Christians in those parts were made into Latin. The early Latin translations were very dear to the hearts of these primitive churches, and as Rome did not send any missionaries toward the West before 250 A.D., the early Latin Bibles were well established before these churches came into conflict with Rome. Not only were such translations in existence long before the Vulgate was adopted by the Papacy, and well established, but the people for centuries refused to supplant their old Latin Bibles by the Vulgate. “The old Latin versions were used longest by the western Christians who would not bow to the authority of Rome — e. g., the Donatists; the Irish in Ireland, Britain, and the Continent; the Albigenses, etc.”What brought about Tyndale's untimely demise could be attributed to two things. One, his constant objections and debates with local priests and bishops over Catholic superstitions, and two, the fact that the translation into English which he offered the people was deeply influenced by Erasmus, a student of the Greek NT and advocate for the line of manuscripts derived from the italic/Syriac Peshitta which the early church used as opposed to the Vaticanus which by then was exclusively Rome's favourite. A Bible in the hands of the common people in their own language which exposed Rome's deceptions and false doctrines was what brought about the English reformation.

The underlined statement is Historically inaccurate and more anti-Catholic rhetoric.

What you should have written to be more accurate is: A bible in the hands of the common people, written in their own language, led man to think he was a prophet of scripture and he interpreted scripture to his own personal interpretation further believing that prophesy comes by a man and not by men moved by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20-21). They do not believe there is anything in scripture that is hard to understand and they do not think they are personally ignorant or are twisting scripture to their own destruction (2 Peter 3:15-16). They think that only the Catholic Church did that. They didn't like the authority of The Church telling them what scripture means because now they could read it themselves and interpret it anyway they feel (which has led to 30,000 different churches). These "common people" then started their own churches which is what brought about false doctrines (Protestantism) and The English Reformation.

The mindset of sola Scriptura and sola Fide brought about the Reformation. The Reformation was the beginning of the downfall of Christianity.

 

[H. Richard]

The underlined statement is Historically inaccurate and more anti-Catholic rhetoric.

What you should have written to be more accurate is: A bible in the hands of the common people, written in their own language, led man to think he was a prophet of scripture and he interpreted scripture to his own personal interpretation further believing that prophesy comes by a man and not by men moved by the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20-21). They do not believe there is anything in scripture that is hard to understand and they do not think they are personally ignorant or are twisting scripture to their own destruction (2 Peter 3:15-16). They think that only the Catholic Church did that. They didn't like the authority of The Church telling them what scripture means because now they could read it themselves and interpret it anyway they feel (which has led to 30,000 different churches). These "common people" then started their own churches which is what brought about false doctrines (Protestantism) and The English Reformation.

The mindset of sola Scriptura and sola Fide brought about the Reformation. The Reformation was the beginning of the downfall of Christianity.

No, just your brand of Christianity.

 

[epostle1]

What you have proved is the excuse that they gave for killing them. I can't see God wanting men to kill others for what they believe. I think He reserves that for Himself.

Where does the scriptures teach that murder is acceptable in light of the commandment not to kill.

For the third time in this thread, Tyndale was executed by the Emperor, not the Catholic Church.

 

[epostle1]

No, just your brand of Christianity.

The Protestant revolt failed. 1.1 billion people remain. Some downfall.

 

[mjrhealth]

If you want to disobey Jesus. Go ahead. I plan to listen to him.

You dont you listen too your churches teachings.

this bit

Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Mar 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition

The catholic church can only produce catholics, only Christ can produce christians

 

[epostle1]

Stop Supporting Wycliffe's Current Bible Translations For Muslims, PCA Advises Churches

Saint Thomas More commented that searching for errors in the Tyndale Bible was similar to searching for water in the sea, and charged Tyndale's translation of The Obedience of a Christian Man with having about a thousand falsely translated errors. Bishop Tunstall of London declared that there were upwards of 2,000 errors in Tyndale's Bible, having already in 1523 denied Tyndale the permission required under the Constitutions of Oxford (1409), which were still in force, to translate the Bible into English.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale

Don't take offense Tyndale fans, it's been re-translated.

Luther's Protestant Bible came out in 1520 and before his Bible the Catholic Bible had been translated into Spanish, Italian, Danish, French, Norwegian, Polish, Bohemian, Hungarian and English, there was exactly 104 editions in Latin; 38 editions in German language, 25 editions in Italian language, 18 in French. In all 626 editions of the Bible with 198 in the language of the laity, had been edited before the first Protestant Bible was sent forth into the world.

 

[epostle1]

You dont you listen too your churches teachings.

this bit

Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Mar 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition

The catholic church can only produce catholics, only Christ can produce christians

The Catholic Church doesn't brainwash her members with anti-fundamentalist lies. Why are you making false accusations about Tradition you know nothing about? I would be happy to explain it (for the 100th time) but not now, you are way off topic.

 

[epostle1]

Can somebody explain to me why every Tyndale site I went to is viciously anti-Catholic? I don't get it.

What did we do to them?

 

[mjrhealth]

Can somebody explain to me why every Tyndale site I went to is viciously anti-Catholic? I don't get it.

What did we do to them?


because, teh catholics, Usurped Gods authority, Sorry "tried to", they murdeerd teh Jews, Gods chosen people, the sold salvation at a price to bulk up there treasuries, they offered salvation to men if they died in battlle, they killed any one who refused to join the "church", they killed any one who opposed the "church", they set up there own authority and than demanded that everone believe them, they make a mockery of God, they slander His name, they tread the grace of God underfoot, they make a mockery of the good works of christ, would you like me to go on, yet men flock to her like men to a brothel to taste of her wares, she is the great harlot , and teh mother of them all, that is all religion Jws to SDAS. She isthe mother of them all.

Now if you love her than you cant love God for you can only serve one master, which is it going to be,

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

 

[epostle1]

Can somebody explain to me why every Tyndale site I went to is viciously anti-Catholic? I don't get it.

What did we do to them?


because, teh catholics, Usurped Gods authority, Sorry "tried to", they murdeerd teh Jews, Gods chosen people, the sold salvation at a price to bulk up there treasuries, they offered salvation to men if they died in battlle, they killed any one who refused to join the "church", they killed any one who opposed the "church", they set up there own authority and than demanded that everone believe them, they make a mockery of God, they slander His name, they tread the grace of God underfoot, they make a mockery of the good works of christ, would you like me to go on, yet men flock to her like men to a brothel to taste of her wares, she is the great harlot , and teh mother of them all, that is all religion Jws to SDAS. She isthe mother of them all.

Now if you love her than you cant love God for you can only serve one master, which is it going to be,

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Scholarly documentation, please. (which anti-Catholics never provide)
Commandment #8, You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.


NOT ALL CHRISTIAN HATERS ARE EQUAL:
ABROAD WE’RE BEHEADED
AT HOME WE’RE BASHED
THE DIFFERENCES ARE PROFOUND;
SO ARE THE SIMILARITIES

 

[mjrhealth]

Scholarly documentation, please. (which anti-Catholics never provide)
Commandment #8, You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

A I said before if teh saints of heaven would come and tell you of there plight you would not believe them. the libraries are filled with te history of teh catholich church all which you chhose to ignore for you prefer you" religious" doctines over the truth than get mad when we dont believe your lies. Plenty here have shown you referenced and you have denied them all, Even SCF acknowledges teh sins of your church, yoiu choose to cover you eyes, stop your eras and Cry . nah nah nah nah.

Mores the pity

 

[heretoeternity]

A I said before if teh saints of heaven would come and tell you of there plight you would not believe them. the libraries are filled with te history of teh catholich church all which you chhose to ignore for you prefer you" religious" doctines over the truth than get mad when we dont believe your lies. Plenty here have shown you referenced and you have denied them all, Even SCF acknowledges teh sins of your church, yoiu choose to cover you eyes, stop your eras and Cry . nah nah nah nah.

Mores the pity



Why are you so hard on your "mother church"...seems the religion you are involved with is one of the harlot daughters mentioned in Revelation 17 wouldn't you agree? so you should take it easy on mama!

 

[mjrhealth]

Why are you so hard on your "mother church"...seems the religion you are involved with is one of the harlot daughters mentioned in Revelation 17 wouldn't you agree? so you should take it easy on mama!

Religin requires one to attend church and have its doctries I belong to no man made chuch which is the bit you cant seem to understand

Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I am secure in Christ and ther is nothing your church can do about it.

Christs church is no harlot unlike yours.

Joh_10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Joh_10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

You follow you pope i follow Christ, who is teh greater?? and in whom is the truth??

 

[heretoeternity]

Christ's church? You would have to follow His commandments and His teachings in the Gospels to enter that church MJR....don't think you qualify from what you are posting.

 

[mjrhealth]

don't think you qualify from what you are posting.

So muvch you dont know about Jesus, it is what happens to the religious and teh learend so much knowledge not much knowing.

 

[heretoeternity]

Why do you post false teachings? You claim you are a follower of Jesus but ignore His teachings, and continue to post irrelevant and false doctrines why?

 

[epostle1]

A I said before if teh saints of heaven would come and tell you of there plight you would not believe them. the libraries are filled with te history of teh catholich church all which you chhose to ignore for you prefer you" religious" doctines over the truth than get mad when we dont believe your lies. Plenty here have shown you referenced and you have denied them all, Even SCF acknowledges teh sins of your church, yoiu choose to cover you eyes, stop your eras and Cry . nah nah nah nah.

Mores the pity

Like I said, Scholarly documentation, please. (which anti-Catholics never provide) An anti-Catholic with a biased agenda is not scholarly. . An author with a Ph.D. in history is scholarly.
Commandment #8, You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

I don't ignore anything, what annoys me is Protestant propaganda, false histories, misrepresentations and exaggerations, mostly coming from Bible cults and religious con artists deceiving gullible people with stupid books.

What gets me mad is brainless assertions and meaningless generalizations that go unsupported, like what you do. . In a 2000 year period, one is bound to find a few scum bags, I don't deny that. But none of them taught errors. The few bad popes in history didn't teach anything. Yes, there were crazy Catholics dong bad things, but not a often as you want to believe. The last 3 popes have made apologies for the sins of some Catholics, and you tell me I am in denial??? How many Protestants have apologized for sins committed 1000 years ago??? It will never happen.

What you deny is the Holy Spirit superintending a bunch of sinners and hypocrites that teach infallibly. In doing so, you deny the authority of the same Church that gave us the Bible. Now you have to invent Bible-origin fantasies to force fit it into your system. Your argument against the Church is self-defeating.

​The Pope tells us to follow Christ, that is his job, but you don't think we should listen to the Pope. This is irrational.

If you want to discuss the Crusades or the Inquisition (which is very complicated) or bad popes, fine. But be specific. Open a thread, it doesn't belong in this one.


A satire on sola scriptura: