Peter’s mistake

[bigape]

First, lets look at Peter’s mistake..........
Matthew 26:70
"But he denied before [them] all, saying, I know not what thou sayest."

Matthew 26:72
“And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man.”

Matthew 26:74
“Then began he to curse and to swear, [saying], I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.”

Now, why did Peter do this?
It was because he was afraid of persecution.

Well here on the internet, we have the same thing happening all the time.
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Over and over again, I see people who might make any kind of a reference to the King James Bible and immediately they say.....“Oh, but I am not King James Bible Only”

This would be funny, if it wasn’t so sad.

What are you afraid of?!?
Are you ashamed, to take a stand that you actually believe that God was able to preserve His Word in one English Bible?

Man up and take a stand for the truth...........
Jeremiah 12:5
“If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and [if] in the land of peace, [wherein] thou trustedst, [they wearied thee], then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?”

 

[Disciple]

I stick to the KJV only, I dont read the other versions for my own personal reasons, and Idk if they are right.
I know that all prophecy of scripture comes by inspiration of God, read this reference, its the reason i dont know if the other versions are right or not.
Reference; Revelations 22:19

 

[bigape]

Hello Disciple, and welcome

You asked.......

“i dont know if the other versions are right or not”

Well, let me ask you, how many truths are there?
There is only one truth, just as there is only one Bible.
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The KJB has been around for 400 years, and all that time Satan has been attacking it.

Then about 130 years ago, Satan discovered a new way to attack it.
(By convincing people that it is just one version of the truth!)
And his plan has worked.

God is not the author of confusion, Satan is.
And what is more confusing, than dozens of different Bibles, in the same language!

Satan’s plan, is that we will just give up and admit that we can’t know what God had to say to us in His Word.

But the Bible that I am holding in my hands, is God’s Word.
And I praise the LORD for the faith He has given me to accept that!

 

[Disciple]

I strongly beleive that the KJV is the word of God, and have found faults in other versions, I have discerned for my self what is right and what is wrong, but for me to say that others shouldnt read anything other than KJV is beyond me, I can only discern for myself and not for others, read that verse I put in my last post, I feel that is what the other versions have done: taken from and added to the prophecy of Scripture, and that verse clearly says not to.
*
As for me, I refuse to study any other version other than the KJV, it is trustworthy and true.

BTW; I love this post, I had a strong desire to make one with this same concept but I guess I didnt have the words to do it, I guess the Holy Ghost had me waiting on you.

 

[bigape]

Hello again Disciple

You said.......

“.....but for me to say that others shouldnt read anything other than KJV is beyond me”

You know, I have never done that.
All the Lord has called me to do, is to point out the foolishness of being tricked into thinking that you(or anyone), must study 2 or 3(or more) English Bibles, to get the truth, or to help in their study.

This really doesn’t help at all. What it does is casts doubt upon a person’s faith in God’s Word.

 

[Disciple]

Oh, sorry I didnt mean you, and I beleive that you were called to post this.. Im just saying that Ive discerned for myself that they are not for me, and I beleive others need to discern for themselves, with the help of this post and the Spirit. I feel like people go to some altered version of the Holy book for understanding rather than go to God who is the God of wisdom and understanding. His word is living quick and powerful, and He is the one to give wisdom and help you to understand, not you turning to altered versions of the book.
And like you said he is not the God of confusion, but those books are: they interpret the word
privately into different versions when Gods word says that 'no prophecy of scripture is of ANY private interpretation'.

 

[Angelina]

 Hi BA,

2 Timothy 3:16

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Thanks for your interesting post. I like to read the NKJV.

Blessings and thanks for your post! 

 

[bigape]

 Hi BA,

2 Timothy 3:16

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Thanks for your interesting post. I like to read the NKJV.

Blessings and thanks for your post! 

That’s great, and welcome to the forum, Angelina.

Never forget that the Bible you hold in your hands(your NKJV), is God’s perfect Word.
(And don’t let ANYBODY, tell you otherwise!)

 

[Martin W.]

I do not use the KJV for the same reason I do not use the Greek New testament , or the Hebrew Old Testament.

It is because they are not written in the language I am fluent in.

I find it much more beneficial to read 100 pages of a translation written in my native tongue , than stumble through 10 pages of a translation written in 1600's England and full of words I am not familiar with. Some examples :::



...... Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble. .....

.......doth thou open thine eyes upon such an one, and bringest me into judgment with thee?

..... Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;

..... Turn from him, that he may rest, till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day.





In order to figure out the above verses I must constantly refer to a modern translation to figure out what it is saying. . If I stick with a modern version my understanding and reading speed increases tenfold.

 

[aspen]

Why would God wait 1600 years to create a Bible that is accurate?

How is putting trust in the government of England any better than trusting the government of Rome in 325 AD?? Were King James' intentions more pure than Constantine's?

Seems like misplaced faith to me.

 

[Martin W.]

What are you afraid of?!?
Are you ashamed, to take a stand that you actually believe that God was able to preserve His Word in one English Bible?

Hi bigape

「 神 愛 世 人 ， 甚 至 將 他 的 獨 生 子 賜 給 他 們 ， 叫 一 切 信 他 的 ， 不 至 滅 亡 ， 反 得 永 生 。

The above is John 3:16 and is obviously not KJV . I happen to believe that God can get his message across even in Chinese . I feel it would be an error to claim Asia is using the wrong version.

Some good news here bigape , I think you will be blessed by it as well. The christian church is seeing HUGE growth in other parts of the world. It reminds me of the fervor of the early church.. Very encouraging.

more here
http://www.wnd.com/i...w&pageId=245201

Meanwhile we North Americans are still trying to decide the merits of the 600 year old King's British language.

Reminds me of the handful of Catholics who still insist everything be done in Latin. It amounts to the same thing.

That is the stand I take . Thank you and Best wishes.
Martin.

 

[bigape]

Hi bigape

「 神 愛 世 人 ， 甚 至 將 他 的 獨 生 子 賜 給 他 們 ， 叫 一 切 信 他 的 ， 不 至 滅 亡 ， 反 得 永 生 。

The above is John 3:16 and is obviously not KJV . I happen to believe that God can get his message across even in Chinese . I feel it would be an error to claim Asia is using the wrong version.

Some good news here bigape , I think you will be blessed by it as well. The christian church is seeing HUGE growth in other parts of the world. It reminds me of the fervor of the early church.. Very encouraging.

more here
http://www.wnd.com/i...w&pageId=245201

Meanwhile we North Americans are still trying to decide the merits of the 600 year old King's British language.

Reminds me of the handful of Catholics who still insist everything be done in Latin. It amounts to the same thing.

That is the stand I take . Thank you and Best wishes.
Martin.

As you can clearly see, from my quote “that you posted”, I am only talking about, Bible’s translated into English.

Just as you(& I), believe that God was able to give an accurate Bible to people who speak Chinese, so also do I believe that God has given English speaking people, an accurate Bible.

If we who speak English, had an accurate Bible 400 years ago, why keep coming up with new Bible’s, unless of course the intent is to confuse people.

 

[Joshua David]

As you can clearly see, from my quote “that you posted”, I am only talking about, Bible’s translated into English.

Just as you(& I), believe that God was able to give an accurate Bible to people who speak Chinese, so also do I believe that God has given English speaking people, an accurate Bible.

If we who speak English, had an accurate Bible 400 years ago, why keep coming up with new Bible’s, unless of course the intent is to confuse people.

I would say that I like the King James Version, but we all must realize that it is only a translation of the original. I avail myself of many different study tools including different translations. Though I have found that when most people try to use different translations, they are doing it with the 'buffet' mentality in mind. They are looking over all their options and then pick the translation that best suits what they wanted to say anyway instead of trying to figure out what the original text meant in the first place. I try to understand what the original meaning of the words meant in Greek and Hebrew, with lexicons and other translation tools because I am in no way even a beginner of learning that language. Also it is important to keep in mind the differences between the Latin Vulgate and also the Septuagint. I have no problem believing that the Lord has preserved his Word. All I am saying is that it is important to understand that while the word has been preserved, our understanding of language, even the English language has changed.

For instance, ask any teenage if they are 'groovy' and they will look at you like you have lost your mind. Or take the word 'gay' which originally meant 'happy'. If you ask someone if they are gay today, it would have a totally different meaning. Does the different meaning lie in the word? Of course not. It is the exact same word, the word hasn't changed. What has changed is our understanding of the word. This is the reason that it is important to understand the culture of the people at the time that it was written, and not to read our own understanding into what the Word says.

Just my 2 cents

Joshua David

 

[Disciple]

I just open my KJV and see what God is telling me by his Spirit..

 

[Joshua David]

I just open my KJV and see what God is telling me by his Spirit..

Do you ever try to study the meanings of the original Greek or Hebrew? Do you ever try to find out the culture of the time to see if certain words or phrases held certain meanings that might be different than the meanings of the English Translations?

Here is a big one.. Do you ever really question your understanding of the scripture? Do you ever consider that what you believe may not be the right way to look at things? I do. I realize that I am human. And while the Word of God my be perfect, I am far from it. I realize that I make mistakes. And most importantly, I realize that I do not know everything. Very rarely, will I ever tell someone that they are wrong. And usually it is only on a concrete Salvation issue, such as someone claiming to be Jesus Christ, someone saying that Jesus isn't the only way to God, you can walk down an aisle, shake a preachers hand, repeat a simple prayer, and then go out and live like the devil, without giving God another thought, and think you are saved. Things like that. As far as things like, my understanding of the end times, the timing of the rapture, the relationship of Israel to the Church, the Antichrist, I try my best to refrain from telling someone that they are wrong. I have my beliefs on all those subjects, and I have scriptural evidence to support my beliefs, and may even argue passionately for my beliefs, but I am not above challenging my own beliefs.

Case in point. Take the subject of Once Saved Always Saved. There have been times when I have fully believed that you can be saved and lost and saved and lost and saved and lost. There have been times when I feel that once you are saved, you can not lose your salvation no matter what. There have also been times when I have felt that you can be saved, and if you lose your salvation, then you are lost for good, there is no coming back. At different points in my life, I have believed every single one of these positions, as well as having scripture to support every single one of these positions. Now I could have stopped with my first decision and said, this is right, and anyone who says anything to contradict this is wrong. But if I did that I would have stopped learning, I would have stopped growing. If I only listened to people who believed exactly like I believed, and never considered that I might be wrong in my interpretation, then I never could have grown into a deeper understanding of his word. That is the reason that I try to be as respectful as I can to what other's believe, even if I do not agree with them. Because who knows. God may open my eyes to a deeper revelation of his word and I will change my view on things, like the rapture, the church, or the endtimes. It's possible.

I guess my main point is this. When we not only believe that we are right, but refuse to consider even the possibility that we are wrong, then it is impossible for us to learn. When you only consider that which you already believe, that is not learning.. it is just reinforcing that which you already believe.

Joshua David

 

[bigape]

Hello Joshua David and welcome

You started off by saying............

“I would say that I like the King James Version, but we all must realize that it is only a translation of the original. I avail myself of many different study tools including different translations.”

Of course you are right, but you must be careful using this phrase “only a translation”, because it is God’s Holy Word.
You also failed to mention that the originals are gone(no longer exist).
But we are to have faith in God, that He can keep His promise to us and preserve His Word for us, forever..........
Psalms 12:6-7
V.6 The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
V.7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

I also use study tools, such as Strong’s concordance and good commentaries, but I ALWAYS keep in mind, that God’s Word is the last word!
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Next you said........

“Though I have found that when most people try to use different translations, they are doing it with the 'buffet' mentality in mind. They are looking over all their options and then pick the translation that best suits what they wanted to say anyway instead of trying to figure out what the original text meant in the first place.”

I also agree with this: This was Satan’s plan, in producing all these modern versions of the Bible; To take away the solid foundation that God’s Word gives us.

As for...“trying to figure out what the original text meant in the first place”, the ONLY TOOL we need to do this, is the Holy Spirit within us.

Study tools are nice, but NOTHING COMPARES to the Word of God!
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You continue by saying.......

“I try to understand what the original meaning of the words meant in Greek and Hebrew, with lexicons and other translation tools because I am in no way even a beginner of learning that language.”

I also seek the original meaning of Bible words, by seeing what men have to tell me about their meaning.....But I never trust men’s opinion over the Holy Spirit, because man opinion’s change, but the Holy Spirit(who gave us the Bible), remains the same.
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Finally you talk about the new meanings many English Words found in the KJB.
And once again, I fully agree.

But, all a person needs is a good English dictionary or a Strong’s concordance, and they can quickly get over this hump.

I recall as a baby Christian, I was treading in Genesis, and came to this verse.......
Genesis 4:5
“But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.”

I asked myself, “what in the world is a countenance and how does it fall”:
But a quick trip to an English dictionary and I found out that countenance means “facial expression” and it falling means “a sad look on his face”!
And I never forgot what it meant!

This is what “Bible study” is all about!

 

[Joshua David]

Bigape,
I agree with all of what you said... Let me try to better articulate the my point. There are some words in the KJV, and in all other translations to some degree, that are translated a certain way. And in some cases, two different words in Hebrew, may be translated into the exact same word in English. But if you never check the original words in Hebrew, it will not even enter into your mind that the same word in two different sentences, could be pointing to two different things.

I am a very firm believer in allowing the "Holy Spirit" to lead your bible study. But I also have to acknowledge that as of yet unglorified humans, we all can have trouble really understanding what the Holy Spirit is trying to teach us. When we are in our glorified bodies, and have our glorified minds, minds that is completely unclouded by sin, then we will finally see things clearly. I have prayed for the Holy Spirit to lead me in my study, and there are other Christian brothers and Sisters, who have prayed the exact same thing, and yet we have arrived at completely different conclusions. We both believed that we were right, and we both believed that the Holy Spirit led us to the conclusion that we arrived at. We both claimed that the Holy Spirit led us there. So where is the fault? Is it with the Holy Spirit? Absolutely Not! The fault is in our own limited understanding. Most people stop there, and just assume that the other person is wrong. Others like myself, can admit that maybe, our understanding of the topic is incomplete, so we continue to study further, and we enrich our understanding of the scriptures more and more. Just remember, if you 'already know' the answer, then you can never 'learn' the answer. Those of us who have children, especially teenagers see this all the time. They know it all! And no matter how patiently you try to tell them what is right, they won't learn from you because they already know the answer. I believe most of us Christians treat the Holy Spirit the same way. We already assume that what we think is right and that we "know" the answer, and just like the teenager, we fail to learn.

There are also tons of Christians who use the "Holy Spirit" as a crutch to not study at all.. When I ask them if they have even looked at the Original Greek they say, I don't need to, you may have the Greek, but I have the Holy Spirit. In other words they never studied the topic at all, they were just repeating what they heard in church, or from their pastor, or from their friend. God desires us to be like the Bereans, not parrots. He wants us to study, to contemplate, to feast on his word. To learn from the Holy Spirit, we have to be teachable, and to be teachable, we have to admit that we may be wrong.

Some of my most enjoyable experiences is when I get together with a Brother or Sister in Christ, and we debate an issue, that we may not see exactly the same on. This is 'iron sharpening iron' that pushes me to really dig into the Word. So if you agree with me or not, let us come and reason together, and may be both come away 'sharper' for it.

Joshua David.

 

[Robbie]

I've always wondered how bad Peter cursed... like what words did he say... did he drop the hebrew equivalent to the F Bomb? haha... or did he go full on mental like the Dad on Christmas Story when he was battling the furnace... I love how we see how imperfect Peter was and how he'd just blow it yet the Lord would use him dispite all his imperfections... it gives me the hope that our Father can use me for good even though I'm such a blow it... haha

 

[bigape]

Hello again Joshua David

Nice to talk to you.

You said.....

“There are some words in the KJV, and in all other translations to some degree, that are translated a certain way. And in some cases, two different words in Hebrew, may be translated into the exact same word in English. But if you never check the original words in Hebrew, it will not even enter into your mind that the same word in two different sentences, could be pointing to two different things.”

I agree with this statement........but; I was a Christian for several years, before I even knew there was a Strong’s concordance, where I could look up the original GK or HB words, yet God wonderfully blessed my study of His Word, protecting me from getting off track.

The Lord takes up the slack and blesses every believer, regardless of how little he may know or have access to..........
Luke 12:48
“But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”
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Next you said........

“I am a very firm believer in allowing the "Holy Spirit" to lead your bible study. But I also have to acknowledge that as of yet unglorified humans, we all can have trouble really understanding what the Holy Spirit is trying to teach us.”

I firmly disagree with this. Any Christian, who’s heart is right and who is diligently studying God’s Word, will not have any trouble understanding what the Holy Spirit is trying to teach them.

We as Christians, do not have to worry about being led astray, as long as we are being honest with ourselves and daily exposing ourselves to God’s Word.

Believers, who study God’s Word, have this promise from Him.......
Hebrews 4:12
“For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

If our heart is not right, God’s Word will reveal this to us.
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Next you give an interesting example..........

“I have prayed for the Holy Spirit to lead me in my study, and there are other Christian brothers and Sisters, who have prayed the exact same thing, and yet we have arrived at completely different conclusions. We both believed that we were right, and we both believed that the Holy Spirit led us to the conclusion that we arrived at. We both claimed that the Holy Spirit led us there. So where is the fault?”

The fault is someone, isn’t rightly dividing the Word of God.

The Bible never contradicts itself and always says the same thing to all people.
Therefore, what is needed, is more study.

Also, the Holy Spirit, will NEVER contradict the Bible!
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Next you talk about, having a teachable spirit.........

“Most people stop there, and just assume that the other person is wrong. Others like myself, can admit that maybe, our understanding of the topic is incomplete, so we continue to study further, and we enrich our understanding of the scriptures more and more. Just remember, if you 'already know' the answer, then you can never 'learn' the answer. Those of us who have children, especially teenagers see this all the time. They know it all! And no matter how patiently you try to tell them what is right, they won't learn from you because they already know the answer. I believe most of us Christians treat the Holy Spirit the same way. We already assume that what we think is right and that we "know" the answer, and just like the teenager, we fail to learn.”

You are right, most people do not have a teachable spirit, so they will never learn.

But.......when the Bible(rightly divided), makes something clear, we can say “I already know the answer”. Because the Bible never changes.
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Next you said.......

“There are also tons of Christians who use the "Holy Spirit" as a crutch to not study at all.. When I ask them if they have even looked at the Original Greek they say, I don't need to, you may have the Greek, but I have the Holy Spirit. In other words they never studied the topic at all, they were just repeating what they heard in church, or from their pastor, or from their friend. God desires us to be like the Bereans, not parrots. He wants us to study, to contemplate, to feast on his word. To learn from the Holy Spirit, we have to be teachable, and to be teachable, we have to admit that we may be wrong.”

I have resisted the temptation to use this phrase...“use the Holy Spirit as a crutch”, because God’s Holy Spirit, can not be used as a crutch.
These poor people, who are set in there ways, do not know the true Holy Spirit.
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Finally you said........

“Some of my most enjoyable experiences is when I get together with a Brother or Sister in Christ, and we debate an issue, that we may not see exactly the same on. This is 'iron sharpening iron' that pushes me to really dig into the Word. So if you agree with me or not, let us come and reason together, and may be both come away 'sharper' for it.”

Boy am I glad to hear that.
Most people I find on the net, would rather stop posting, than continue a discussion, where they might be proven wrong.

Looking forward to further discussions.

 

[Joshua David]

Bigape,

I agree with this statement........but; I was a Christian for several years, before I even knew there was a Strong’s concordance, where I could look up the original GK or HB words, yet God wonderfully blessed my study of His Word, protecting me from getting off track.

Oh I believe that there are things in the bible that even a sincere child can understand, without the first outside resource. This is the milk of the word of God. God's plan of salvation is rather simple, it is people who try to make it difficult to understand. I just think when we get past the milk, and we won't get get into the real meat of the word, we need to take those things into consideration.

I firmly disagree with this. Any Christian, who’s heart is right and who is diligently studying God’s Word, will not have any trouble understanding what the Holy Spirit is trying to teach them.

We as Christians, do not have to worry about being led astray, as long as we are being honest with ourselves and daily exposing ourselves to God’s Word.

Maybe I didn't communicate that right. I wasn't saying that the Holy Spirit would lead you astray. I was saying that our own lack of understanding can lead us astray. The word of God is so beautiful, so deep, so alive, so wonderful, so rich that I do not believe it is possible to fully understand everything that the Word of God would teach you, while in this life. This is the reason that we must constantly study, why we must dig deeper, why we can't just rest on what the preacher says, but we must digest the word for ourselves. Look at it this way, if it was possible to learn everything there was to know, then I wouldn't need to study anymore. If I need to study and learn more, then by definition, I need to admit that I don't know everything, and I need to rely on the Holy Spirit to teach me. If I do this, then at least in my opinion, I have to acknowledge that I have an incomplete grasp of the Word, and that there are somethings that are missing... These missing things are what can lead you astray.

The fault is someone, isn’t rightly dividing the Word of God.
The Bible never contradicts itself and always says the same thing to all people.
Therefore, what is needed, is more study.


Also, the Holy Spirit, will NEVER contradict the Bible!

I fully agree. The problem comes in when Christians never challenge what they have already been taught. To them it almost seem sacrilegious to do so. They know that they are right, and refuse to consider anyone or anything that contradicts that they already know. Again the problem is not with the Holy Spirit, but with our ability to learn. I am sure that there are things we all 'know'. Things that we were taught as a little kid, that we never questioned because it came from the pastor, or a Sunday school teacher. But the problem is that it didn't come from the Holy Spirit, it came from traditions of men, supported by a few scriptures. If we start with this error, then it affects how we see all the other scriptures. Yes, the Holy Spirit can lead us to the truth, but only if we remain teachable, and that is, unfortunately very rare in my experience.

I have resisted the temptation to use this phrase...“use the Holy Spirit as a crutch”, because God’s Holy Spirit, can not be used as a crutch.
These poor people, who are set in there ways, do not know the true Holy Spirit.

I agree, that was the reason that I put the words Holy Spirit in quotes. But I have been on other Christian forums where the discussions have turn from being respectfully polite, to downright venomous. I have had my Salvation questioned, and have even been called a worker of the Devil for believing in what I believe. And each person on the discussion ( including myself) have claimed that they have the Holy Spirit to guide them in their study. So do we conclude that the only real Christians who truly hear from the Holy Spirit are the ones who believe exactly like we do? That we are absolutely right and therefore, anyone who disagrees with us is by definition wrong, and are not rightly dividing the Word of God? Did not Paul and Barnabas split up because they disagreed over the subject of Mark? Who was right in this instance? The bible doesn't say. Just because a brother or sister disagrees with you does not mean that they are not hearing from the Holy Spirit too. That is all I am saying.

Boy am I glad to hear that.Most people I find on the net, would rather stop posting, than continue a discussion, where they might be proven wrong.


Looking forward to further discussions.

I am looking forward to that as well.

Joshua David