PETER AND PAUL ON BAPTISMS AND THE HOLY GHOST

[theefaith]

The ritual of baptism was a cultural practice marking the beginning of the disciples' new life as the student of the teacher. The reason the eunuch knew about it was because all teachers baptized students. This was a well known cultural practice.

Really?
Then why did God send a John to prepare the way thru baptism?

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)

John 4:4 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptism!

 

[Tong2020]

mk 16:16 faith and baptism

The person of Jesus Christ, His identity, life, works, and words. NT

Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

In verse 15, Jesus commanded the eleven apostles to preach the gospel. What is the gospel?

In verse 16, it says "He who believes .....". Believes what? Obviously, the gospel they were to preach. What do you say is the gospel they preached? Is it baptism?

It is not faith and baptism.

Tong
R1161

 

[theefaith]

Mk 16:16

acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

more scripture reference for baptism!

Baptism!


Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put withi n you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Matt 28:19 ( Disciples by baptism not faith alone)
Mk 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Mark 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)

John 4:4 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.(Baptism)

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 4:5 
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark and the church there is no salvation!)

 

[Candidus]

Peter and Paul preached differently on Baptisms and the Holy Ghost.

Baptisms:

The twelve preached salvation upon baptism (Acts 2:38 Mark 16:16).

Acts 2:38 teaches that the Holy Ghost is received upon belief/repentance. Those that thus saved are then exhorted to be baptized as a witness to the remission of sins they already received.

Mark 16:16 in many scholars opinions, is not real Scripture. If you accept it as Scripture then you are not a Christian unless you handle poisonous snakes and drink poison, because in Mark 16 it says that those things WILL accompany those that believe! For the first 5000 years of Christianity, the later part of verses in Mark have ZERO evidence that they existed.

Paul was not sent to baptize (1 Corinthians 1:17)

Correct! Paul was sent to preach the Gospel and get people saved. Paul is clear, baptism has nothing to do with it!

The Holy Ghost:

The twelve preached the receiving of the Holy Ghost upon baptism (Acts 2:38).

Look at the Greek. They received the Holy Ghost when they repented. For those that were saved, they were commanded to be baptized as a testimony of the remission of sins.

Paul preached that the Holy Ghost was received upon belief (Ephesians 1:13).

Correct! Paul preached the same exact thing as Acts 2:38.

Therefore, Paul did not teach anything different than what Jesus or Peter preached!

 

[theefaith]

Why does Paul say

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 4:5 
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)

paul was sent to baptize cos all apostles are sent to baptize and he did baptize
Matt 28:19
I was not sent to baptize means primarily not sent to baptize but to preach.

mark 16:16 is not scripture cos it opposed salvation by faith alone
I thought all scripture was inspired
And since when is the Bible alone replaced by a consensus of scripture scholars?

 

[Tong2020]

Mark 16:16 in many scholars opinions, is not real Scripture. If you accept it as Scripture then you are not a Christian unless you handle poisonous snakes and drink poison, because in Mark 16 it says that those things WILL accompany those that believe! For the first 5000 years of Christianity, the later part of verses in Mark have ZERO evidence that they existed.

Curious. Is that the only reason why such opinion?

Tong
R1162

 

[theefaith]

Cos it is truth revealed by God!

 

[Tong2020]

@theefaith

Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

In verse 15, Jesus commanded the eleven apostles to preach the gospel.

In verse 16, it says "He who believes .....". Believes what gospel?

Certainly the gospel could not be to believe and be baptized, which is what is asked in response to the gospel.

Tong
R1163

 

[Candidus]

Curious. Is that the only reason why such opinion?

Tong
R1162

1). It teaches nonsense. It contradicts everything else said in Scripture concerning salvation by grace through faith.

2). 500 years is a long time for it not to exist; can you admit that this is problematic?

3). It teaches that you must pick up poisonous serpents and drink poison if you are a Christian. Is this a normal occurrence in your Church?

4). It is omitted in every known manuscript for roughly the first 500 years of Christianity, and "POOF!" it appears!

Are not these four facts reason enough?

 

[theefaith]

@theefaith

Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

In verse 15, Jesus commanded the eleven apostles to preach the gospel.

In verse 16, it says "He who believes .....". Believes what gospel?

Certainly the gospel could not be to believe and be baptized, which is what is asked in response to the gospel.

Tong
R1163

both are required faith and baptism
Matt 28:19 teach all nation make disciples by baptism
Acts 8 Philip an apostle preached Jesus!
How does the eunuch know about baptism? Why does he so earnestly desire it as if his salvation depends on it?

 

[Tong2020]

1). It teaches nonsense. It contradicts everything else said in Scripture concerning salvation by grace through faith.

2). 500 years is a long time for it not to exist; can you admit that this is problematic?

3). It teaches that you must pick up poisonous serpents and drink poison if you are a Christian. Is this a normal occurrence in your Church?

4). It is omitted in every known manuscript for roughly the first 500 years of Christianity, and "POOF!" it appears!

Are not these four facts reason enough?

I just don't believe that the Bible we have today are corrupted by such supposed additions and which you claim are not scriptures. Of the four reasons, I am interested in number 2 & 4. Can you kindly provide any reference where those are coming from? Thanks.

Tong
R1166

 

[theefaith]

1). It teaches nonsense. It contradicts everything else said in Scripture concerning salvation by grace through faith.

2). 500 years is a long time for it not to exist; can you admit that this is problematic?

3). It teaches that you must pick up poisonous serpents and drink poison if you are a Christian. Is this a normal occurrence in your Church?

4). It is omitted in every known manuscript for roughly the first 500 years of Christianity, and "POOF!" it appears!

Are not these four facts reason enough?

such as what? Is Mary the mother of God?

 

[theefaith]

1). It teaches nonsense. It contradicts everything else said in Scripture concerning salvation by grace through faith.

2). 500 years is a long time for it not to exist; can you admit that this is problematic?

3). It teaches that you must pick up poisonous serpents and drink poison if you are a Christian. Is this a normal occurrence in your Church?

4). It is omitted in every known manuscript for roughly the first 500 years of Christianity, and "POOF!" it appears!

Are not these four facts reason enough?

What is the it? What are you referring to

 

[Enoch111]

Peter and Paul preached differently on Baptisms and the Holy Ghost.

That is a VERY SERIOUS MISUNDERSTANDING of Peter and Paul.

1. Both were taught by Christ.
2. Both were commissioned by Christ.
3. Both were commanded to preach the Gospel.
4. Both were commanded to baptize believers.
5. Both were commanded to disciple the saints.
6. Both were martyred for Christ.
7. There is only one Gospel, only one baptism with the Holy Spirit, and only one Christian baptism by immersion in water.

The major fallacy of those who try to put a wedge between Peter and Paul is that they are expecting AN EXACT CORRESPONDENCE in how they communicated their preaching and teaching. But since each one had a different personality and a different background, it is reasonable to expect that they would communicate differently.

Everything is in perfect harmony with Christ and His apostles, and within the New Testament. Therefore it would be absurd to imagine that there was conflict and contradiction among the apostles.

 

[theefaith]

Eph 4:5

 

[Tong2020]

both are required faith and baptism
Matt 28:19 teach all nation make disciples by baptism
Acts 8 Philip an apostle preached Jesus!
How does the eunuch know about baptism? Why does he so earnestly desire it as if his salvation depends on it?

Well you just keep repeating stating the same thing. If for you, you are saved by your faith and by getting yourself baptized, let it be so then with you.

On my part, I believe my salvation is by grace and is through faith. Fallen Mankind is saved because of and out of the grace of God. Scriptures says that salvation belongs to God and that God is the Savior and that there is no other. That said, man therefore is not the savior of himself nor of others, nor is man a 'co-savior' of God. There is nothing that man could do to save himself. For if there was, there really then was no need for Jesus Christ.

Paul, in scriptures clearly teaches that we are saved by grace through faith. He did not say through faith and baptism. In saying "through faith", he does not mean to say that faith is that which saves us. For faith is no savior, nor is baptism, nor is good works, but Jesus Christ is.

Now, why through faith? It's because, without faith, it is impossible to please God, and that whatever is not from faith is sin.

Tong
R1167

 

[Marymog]

Peter and Paul preached differently on Baptisms and the Holy Ghost.

Baptisms:

The twelve preached salvation upon baptism (Acts 2:38 Mark 16:16)

Paul was not sent to baptize (1 Corinthians 1:17)

The Holy Ghost:

The twelve preached the receiving of the Holy Ghost upon baptism (Acts 2:38).

Paul preached that the Holy Ghost was received upon belief (Ephesians 1:13).

So Scripture contradicts itself?

 

[theefaith]

Well you just keep repeating stating the same thing. If for you, you are saved by your faith and by getting yourself baptized, let it be so then with you.

On my part, I believe my salvation is by grace and is through faith. Fallen Mankind is saved because of and out of the grace of God. Scriptures says that salvation belongs to God and that God is the Savior and that there is no other. That said, man therefore is not the savior of himself nor of others, nor is man a 'co-savior' of God. There is nothing that man could do to save himself. For if there was, there really then was no need for Jesus Christ.

Paul, in scriptures clearly teaches that we are saved by grace through faith. He did not say through faith and baptism. In saying "through faith", he does not mean to say that faith is that which saves us. For faith is no savior, nor is baptism, nor is good works, but Jesus Christ is.

Now, why through faith? It's because, without faith, it is impossible to please God, and that whatever is not from faith is sin.

Tong
R1167

there is only one savior one new covenant and one salvation.
grace is received thru baptism.
Why is faith not a work? Don’t you have to choose to believe?

 

[Doug]

Acts 2:38 teaches that the Holy Ghost is received upon belief/repentance. Those that thus saved are then exhorted to be baptized as a witness to the remission of sins they already received.

This, while having good intent, goes beyond scripture....no where does scripture say that baptism is to be a witness.

 

[Doug]

Mark 16:16 in many scholars opinions, is not real Scripture. If you accept it as Scripture then you are not a Christian unless you handle poisonous snakes and drink poison, because in Mark 16 it says that those things WILL accompany those that believe! For the first 5000 years of Christianity, the later part of verses in Mark have ZERO evidence that they existed.

Maybe it has been deemed not scripture because they can not reconcile it to other scripture.
I do not think Mark 16 applies to the church in this dispensation.
Mark 16 is for those who believe the gospel of the kingdom in the tribulation.