Peter the Rock?

[Truthnightmare]

All scripture is God inspired….really, you need a confirmation that ONLY God is the Supreme authority of His own Knowledge, His own word?

LAME!



You repetitively ARGUE, AGAINST the Soul Supremacy of Gods OWN inspired Scripture being the ONLY Authoritative word of God and APPROVED of God.




ANY man or group of men can Start “church”.
ANY man or group of men WHO Start a “church” claiming it is a HOUSE of God, IT IS by establishment claiming to BE ….
IN ACCORDANCE with Gods Word!

ANY man or group of men who “establish” a church….can set the time of Service, the music, seating arrangement, a dress code, an altar design, blah, blah, blah….

NO ONE was given permission to change, make up or add to Gods own Word, what God Himself has Not revealed AND then attribute “THEIR” word, “AS Gods Approved Word”…

Your “church” has a plethora of garb, elaborate adornments and man-made gestures and trinkets …. Historically and Modernly “catholic” men have made-up, and call “catholic” traditions….which were NEVER “traditions” God taught, established, inspired or approved.

Your “church” teaches from books and letters outside of Scripture, attributing them to being as trustworthy as scripture.

QUOTE God teaching Scripture IS NOT SUFFICIENT

It’s so much that has not been said… I will not reveal such… this is just one of the writings of Catholicism..

St. Bernardine of Sienna says:

"St. Bernardine of Sienna does not hesitate to say that: "all obey the commands of Mary, even God himself" (Glories of Mary, Liguori, 202).​

But it’s so much worse, one would be surprised to know what a confession room really is.. done.

 

[Truthnightmare]

It is further employed to signify the Church Militant of the New Testament. Even in this restricted acceptation, there is some variety in the use of the term. The disciples of a single locality are often referred to in the New Testament as a Church (Revelation 2:18; Romans 16:4; Acts 9:31), and St. Paul even applies the term to disciples belonging to a single household (Romans 16:5; 1 Corinthians 16:19, Colossians 4:15; Philemon 1-2). Moreover, it may designate specially those who exercise the office of teaching and ruling the faithful, the Ecclesia Docens (Matthew 18:17), or again the governed as distinguished from their pastors, the Ecclesia Discens (Acts 20:28).
...
local ministry was of Apostolic institution: and, further, that towards the later part of the Apostolic Age
...
The purpose of these writings was to instruct Timothy and Titus regarding the manner in which they were to organize the local Churches.
...
benefactions to the local Church
...
an office in the local Churches, held by a single person, and carrying with it Apostolical authority.
...
the particular local Churches were conscious of an essential principle of solidarity binding all together into a single system.
...

...https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm

That’s a darn good explanation.

 

[Truthnightmare]

The idea that the church was built on a guy that Got rebuked, then denied Christ, then went outside a cried about it after being told such things would happen….

Then later being scolded by Paul for being a hypocrite…

This is the rock our church was built on? No way!

 

[Taken]

problem is individual interpretation. Often no two people agree on meaning of a text.

Scripture teaches….
What God wants a man to KNOW…Gods Knowledge….God Reveals…which is what we call the Scriptures.

God UNDERSTANDING of His Knowledge…is uniquely another thing….that ONY God gives His UNDERSTANDING of His own Knowledge….to men.

I read Gods Knowledge, His Word.
I study His Word.
I ponder and read and study some more.
Then whatever the topic, I pray TO God, asking for God to give me His Understanding….and I wait for His Answer.
Once His answer is revealed…
I then AGAIN read and study while regarding His Answer…and am satisfied to have gained a bit of Wisdom from God….and I simply repeat that process, over and over and over.

I know what I do. I have no clue what every other person does. God offered me a one on one relationship with Him and I accepted that, and who better understands God, than God Himself? Thus it is Him, I ask and Trust when He Answers.

2 Tim 2:
[7] Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

It’s so much that has not been said… I will not reveal such… this is just one of the writings of Catholicism..

St. Bernardine of Sienna says:



But it’s so much worse, one would be surprised to know what a confession room really is.. done.

I can imagine hinky, even dastardly things occur in private, when so much hinky things openly occur.

 

[RedFan]

John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."

How in the world did the Apostle John ever get the notion to write this???

Like, did he read some book that spurred his vivid imagination???

That has been a subject of inquiry by scholars for quite some time. I might recommend the attached article if you want to take a deep dive here.

 

[David in NJ]

That has been a subject of inquiry by scholars for quite some time. I might recommend the attached article if you want to take a deep dive here.

What about the Apostle John's subscription to 'My Daily Bread' !!!

Have you ever considered that?

 

[Taken]

Side note - Hello @David in NJ . Hope all is well with you and yours. God bless.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[David in NJ]

Anf yet, no matter how you try to twust it - Sola Scriptura is simply NOT supported by the very Scriptures it purports to be our "SOLE" Authority . . .

WRONG.

Private interpretation is individual interpretation, such as you would find in every non-Catholic sect that began with the opinions of a single man.

The coeporate interpretations of the Church are anything but "private".

LORD Jesus said that sola scriptura was the authority by which Life came into existence!

The LORD also said that HE will judge the world by sola scriptura!

Furthermore, anyone who rejects sola scriptura has no hope and no Salvation.

 

[David in NJ]

Side note - Hello @David in NJ . Hope all is well with you and yours. God bless.

Glory to God,
Taken

Thank You Brother,

Temp here today is 22 degrees and today i must do the unthinkable and the thing i hate =auto mechanic

MUST DO today = replace front wheel bearing hubs = while outside in temps in the 20's

Please lift up prayer that the hubs 'RELEASE' as rust can weld them in place.

Did my wifes car when it was in the 40's and it took a lot of HAMMER-IN

 

[Taken]

Thank You Brother,

Temp here today is 22 degrees and today i must do the unthinkable and the thing i hate =auto mechanic

MUST DO today = replace front wheel bearing hubs = while outside in temps in the 20's

Please lift up prayer that the hubs 'RELEASE' as rust can weld them in place.

Did my wifes car when it was in the 40's and it took a lot of HAMMER-IN

Last week was very cold in the 20’s. Pipes all wrapped, some turned off. Nearly a dozen spigots everywhere. “hauling” water to the animals 2X a day. Breaking up Trying to keep ice from forming in their water tubs. Burr the wind. We had to switch out a tire on a trailer…..and need a front end job on the truck…weather warming, but rain, rain, rain and muddy.
Always something to maintain or fix… ;-)

 

[ScottA]

How many denominations were in the early church?

I couldn't say...but that is not the issue. It's the number of nations, or not even that, but rather that there were many nations and peoples ("all flesh") included in the foretold outpouring of the spirit of God upon all flesh by Joel, that came to fruition on Pentecost as confirmed by Jesus and then Peter.

The point being, that if any denomination or single sect (i.e. the Catholic church) set themselves apart--they are apart from God--by their own doing. That is not what Jesus assigned Peter to in His narrative confirming that He was the Christ. He assigned Peter over the apostles and then let him know by the witness of Cornelius "that God shows no partiality", after which Jesus did not send Peter to or over the gentiles, but Paul...thus showing a fraudulent "apostolic secession" by the Catholics.

 

[ScottA]

WRONG.
Preaching by the Apostles by the Holy Spirit BEGAN on Pentecost.

They were the Catholic Church - not some other entity or "denomiation".

Yes - unfortunately YOU declare a lot of things that aren't true.

One last comment--then I loose you:

"Denominations" is not the issue. You are completely under the wrong impression. It's the number of nations, or not even that, but rather that there were many nations and peoples and tongues ("all flesh") included in the foretold outpouring of the spirit of God upon all flesh by Joel, that came to fruition on Pentecost as confirmed by Jesus and then Peter.

The point being, that if any denomination or single sect (i.e. the Catholic church) set themselves apart--they are apart from God--by their own doing. That is not what Jesus assigned Peter to in His narrative confirming that He was the Christ. He assigned Peter over the apostles and then let him know by the witness of Cornelius "that God shows no partiality", after which Jesus did not send Peter to or over the gentiles, but Paul...thus showing a fraudulent "apostolic secession" by the Catholics.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No it doesn’t…

ekklésia: an assembly, a (religious) congregation
Original Word: ἐκκλησία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: ekklésia
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-klay-see'-ah)
Definition: an assembly, a (religious) congregation
Usage: an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers

The English word "church" comes from the Greek word kyriakos, "belonging to the Lord" (kyrios). 1577 /ekklēsía ("church") is the root of the terms "ecclesiology" and "ecclesiastical."]

First of all – “Ekklesia” is where we get the Latin word for “Church”, which is “Iglesia”.

Anyway, the word in question was “Catholic”, not “Church” . . .

 

[ScottA]

That's an empty and impotent claim as the very same can bve said yabout YOU . . .

That was not the response given by Nicodemus, but worse.

 

[Illuminator]

Scripture teaches….
What God wants a man to KNOW…Gods Knowledge….God Reveals…which is what we call the Scriptures.

2 Tim 2:
[7] Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

The problem is you only accept what Paul wrote, and not all that he said, which is preserved in the passed down offices, which you reject. You contradict yourself.

God UNDERSTANDING of His Knowledge…is uniquely another thing….that ONY God gives His UNDERSTANDING of His own Knowledge….to men.

I read Gods Knowledge, His Word.
I study His Word.
I ponder and read and study some more.
Then whatever the topic, I pray TO God, asking for God to give me His Understanding….and I wait for His Answer.
Once His answer is revealed…
I then AGAIN read and study while regarding His Answer…and am satisfied to have gained a bit of Wisdom from God….and I simply repeat that process, over and over and over.

The same reformist rhetoric over and over again...

I know what I do. I have no clue what every other person does. God offered me a one on one relationship with Him and I accepted that, and who better understands God, than God Himself? Thus it is Him, I ask and Trust when He Answers.

2 Tim 2:
[7] Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

Glory to God,
Taken

You have no way of knowing all that Paul said, or any of the other Apostles, or all that Jesus said. All that they said and taught is preserved, for example, in the offices that Paul perpetuated through Timothy and Titus.
You don't even have bishops. So your objection against apostolic succession is just an excuse.

 

[ScottA]

WRONG.

Private interpretation is individual interpretation, such as you would find in every non-Catholic sect that began with the opinions of a single man.

The coeporate interpretations of the Church are anything but "private".

"Corporate interpretations" by one sect or group is indeed "individual", and that individual has a name. Peter knew that name--because Jesus called him by it, but apparently you do not.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I was referring to your belief that the Catholic Church was the church of the apostles or early followers of Christ.

You would have to appeal to history in order to show continuity of Christ's Church.
Where would you like me too start?

1st century Bishop and lifelong student of the Apostle John wrote the following at the end of the 1st century before his martyrdom in Rome:
Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

“Follow your Bishop . . .”
“Obey your clergy . . .”
“The Eucharist . . .”
“The “Catholic Church” . . .
Does that sound like YOU denomination?

In the 2nd century document, Against Heresies - Irenaeus lists all of the Popes from his own time going ALL the way back to Peter, showing this continuity.

 

[BreadOfLife]

LORD Jesus said that sola scriptura was the authority by which Life came into existence!

I need you to show me where the SCRIPTURES say this.

The LORD also said that HE will judge the world by sola scriptura!

Can you show me where the SCRIPTURES say this?

Furthermore, anyone who rejects sola scriptura has no hope and no Salvation.

WHERE do the SCRIPTURES make this claim??
If you can't produce any SCRIPTURAL proof of your claims - you are nothing but a liar . . .

And here's what the Bible says about Liars . . .
Rev. 21:8
“But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters AND ALL LIARS—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Good luck with that . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

One last comment--then I loose you:

"Denominations" is not the issue. You are completely under the wrong impression. It's the number of nations, or not even that, but rather that there were many nations and peoples and tongues ("all flesh") included in the foretold outpouring of the spirit of God upon all flesh by Joel, that came to fruition on Pentecost as confirmed by Jesus and then Peter.

The point being, that if any denomination or single sect (i.e. the Catholic church) set themselves apart--they are apart from God--by their own doing. That is not what Jesus assigned Peter to in His narrative confirming that He was the Christ. He assigned Peter over the apostles and then let him know by the witness of Cornelius "that God shows no partiality", after which Jesus did not send Peter to or over the gentiles, but Paul...thus showing a fraudulent "apostolic secession" by the Catholics.

In post #442 – YOU stated the following:
“No. Preaching by the apostles by the Holy Spirit came later.”

I corrected you by pointing out that it started at Pentecost – and now you’re changing the argument.
Discussion with you is fruitless because you move the goal posts every time you are proven wrong.

So, I release YOU . . .