Physcial Healing or Spiritual Healing?

[heavenforbid]

Well God can do both physical and spiritual healing, obviously ones salvation is the ultimate healing though, not every born again believer may get their physical healing here on earth, but they are ultimately healed and blessed with new bodies in heaven, we don't have to carry any sicknesses or infirmities into heaven, praise God. So that's the good way of looking at it, anyone who is saved is healed in heaven.

You can scream that while you're in hell!

 

[lforrest]

You can scream that while you're in hell!

I don't see your point, and wish you would be more clear. If that is a general statement and not a personal attack, as I hope it isn't, then of course. There is no healing or hope of heaven for those in hell.

 

[bbyrd009]

hell after death is a lie, that cannot be demonstrated by the most learned theologian.

 

[BreadOfLife]

All deteriorating health is self-inflicted. Whether these result from deficiencies, as is likely most common, or not, the problem is ultimately a spiritual one, so even a physical deficiency may be seen as a manifestation of a spiritual issue, at least in a sense.

Of course it is not PC to tell a friend "Hell no, i won't pray for you for that, because you will just keep ignoring the answer to prayer," even if it is what they most need to hear. This has lost me a few friends, and in my chosen pursuits, i expect to lose a few more. The payoff, seldom though it is, is worth it

This post is both asinine and uncharitable.

First of all - not "ALL" deteriorating heath is self-inflicted. Millions of people die from things that they had absolutely nothing to do with like cancer from being exposed to toxic waste or radiation. Some people contract diseases from blood transfusions during surgery or some other physical trauma.

As to your comment that you should STOP praying for some people because they "ignore" the answer is astounding.
They need MORE prayer - not less. Who are YOU to usurp the will of God??

 

[BreadOfLife]

hell after death is a lie, that cannot be demonstrated by the most learned theologian.

More nonsense . . .

[SIZE=10pt]Jesus spoke of Hell being eternal SEVERAL times. Not only did Jesus and the Apostles teach it – EVERY SINGLE early Church father taught it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Hell is a very real place. It is ETERNAL. Here are a few Scriptural references to back it up:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Is. 33:11, 14[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"My spirit shall consume you like fire. . . . On Zion sinners are in dread, trembling grips the impious: 'Who of us can live with the consuming fire? Who of us can live with the everlasting flames?'" [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Matt. 25:31-34, 41, 46[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"He will separate them one from another. . . . Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. . . .' Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels . . .' And these will go off to[/SIZE] [SIZE=10pt]ETERNAL punishment[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt], but the righteous to eternal life"[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Matt. 26:24[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"The Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Mark 9:47–48[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, where the worm does not die,[/SIZE] [SIZE=10pt]and the fire is not quenched.[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]"[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Luke 3:16-17[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fan is in his hand to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn in[/SIZE] [SIZE=10pt]UNQUENCHABLE fire[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]"[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]2 Thess. 1:6-9[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"For it is surely just on God's part to repay with afflictions those who are afflicting you. . . . at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his mighty angels, in blazing fire, inflicting punishment on those who do not acknowledge God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of[/SIZE] [SIZE=10pt]ETERNAL ruin[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt], separated from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power."[/SIZE]


[SIZE=10pt]**Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary defines the following words:
ETERNAL - (having infinite duration; everlasting)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]UNQUENCHABLE - (unending or un-ceasing)[/SIZE]

 

[Josho]

You can scream that while you're in hell!

That's not your decision, I know I'm heavenbound because I have done all that's required, I repent whenever I sin, and God is a God of grace and forgiveness. Now if I wasn't born again, it's still not your decision either, because you wouldn't know my last words here on earth. Ya know Bob Marley was a Rasta for most of his life, but he repented and asked the Lord into his life in his final days here on earth.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's not your decision, I know I'm heavenbound because I have done all that's required, I repent whenever I sin, and God is a God of grace and forgiveness. Now if I wasn't born again, it's still not your decision either, because you wouldn't know my last words here on earth. Ya know Bob Marley was a Rasta for most of his life, but he repented and asked the Lord into his life in his final days here on earth.

Never heard that about Bob Marley - but I hope you're right.

You're correct about ANY person knowing whether or not you'll go to Hell.
That is between you and God - and NOBODY else.

 

[bbyrd009]

More nonsense . . .

[SIZE=10pt]Jesus spoke of Hell being eternal SEVERAL times. Not only did Jesus and the Apostles teach it – EVERY SINGLE early Church father taught it.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Hell is a very real place. It is ETERNAL. Here are a few Scriptural references to back it up:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Is. 33:11, 14[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"My spirit shall consume you like fire. . . . On Zion sinners are in dread, trembling grips the impious: 'Who of us can live with the consuming fire? Who of us can live with the everlasting flames?'" [/SIZE]


[SIZE=10pt]Matt. 25:31-34, 41, 46[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"He will separate them one from another. . . . Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. . . .' Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels . . .' And these will go off to[/SIZE] [SIZE=10pt]ETERNAL punishment[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt], but the righteous to eternal life"[/SIZE]


[SIZE=10pt]Matt. 26:24[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"The Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Mark 9:47–48[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, where the worm does not die,[/SIZE] [SIZE=10pt]and the fire is not quenched.[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]"[/SIZE]


[SIZE=10pt]Luke 3:16-17[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fan is in his hand to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn in[/SIZE] [SIZE=10pt]UNQUENCHABLE fire[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]"[/SIZE]


[SIZE=10pt]2 Thess. 1:6-9[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]"For it is surely just on God's part to repay with afflictions those who are afflicting you. . . . at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his mighty angels, in blazing fire, inflicting punishment on those who do not acknowledge God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of[/SIZE] [SIZE=10pt]ETERNAL ruin[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt], separated from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power."[/SIZE]


[SIZE=10pt]**Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary defines the following words:
ETERNAL - (having infinite duration; everlasting)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]UNQUENCHABLE - (unending or un-ceasing)[/SIZE]

i think you will see that Christ never used the term "hell," and your refs even point to the real fire. And, ps, "eternal" got defined for you as well. It's Passover all over again.

 

[BreadOfLife]

i think you will see that Christ never used the term "hell," and your refs even point to the real fire. And, ps, "eternal" got defined for you as well. It's Passover all over again.

This is an asinine argument.
You think that because Jesus didn't use the WORD "Hell" that is doesn't exist??

Jesus never used the word "Incarnation" - but he taught it.
Jesus never used the word "Trinity" - but he taught it.
Jesus never used the word "Bible" - but that's where we find His teachings.

Jesus indeed taught about the reality of Hell.
You can deny it until you're blue in the face but it's still there in the Scripture verses I presented . . .

 

[bbyrd009]

As the Lexicon of the original shows, "hell" is a scribed interpretation that deliberately mischaracterizes Gehenna, sorry.

 

[BreadOfLife]

As the Lexicon of the original shows, "hell" is a scribed interpretation that deliberately mischaracterizes Gehenna, sorry.

Okay - instead of your silly denials - explain the meaning of the following verses - if they are NOT talking about eternal punishment:

Is. 33:11, 14
"My spirit shall consume you like fire. . . . On Zion sinners are in dread, trembling grips the impious: 'Who of us can live with the consuming fire? Who of us can live with the everlasting flames?'"

Matt. 25:31-34, 41, 46
"He will separate them one from another. . . . Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. . . .' Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels . . .' And these will go off to ETERNAL punishment, but the righteous to eternal life"

Matt. 26:24
"The Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born."

Mark 9:47–48
"It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, where the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched."

Luke 3:16-17
"He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fan is in his hand to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn in UNQUENCHABLE fire"

2 Thess. 1:6-9
"For it is surely just on God's part to repay with afflictions those who are afflicting you. . . . at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his mighty angels, in blazing fire, inflicting punishment on those who do not acknowledge God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty ofETERNAL ruin, separated from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power."

And what is "Gehenna".
Please explain that to me.

 

[bbyrd009]

explain the meaning of the following verses - if they are NOT talking about eternal punishment:

children "hear" words very literally, and are led astray by phrases like "stay here for the present," and accept as gospel things that trusted people tell them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eShplm5oyL4

when we begin seeking God in earnest--after we reject the Hippy we all get sent, iow--we naturally gravitate to "those who are called by His Name," or Religion, because it is the religious, the Strong Men, who have appropriated God, and just like it seems like a good idea to go to a bank for money, it seems appropriate to go to the religious to find God. No one i know dives into the Book on their own after getting a revelation, like Paul did. Surely it happens sometimes, but this is not the path for most, right.

So then what happens is, we get spoon-fed the Book from a pov that assures us it "knows" these things they are teaching us, and we don't find passages like "He who says he knows does not yet know," or any of the other passages that call into question or outright repudiate the doctrines that we are taught as absolute truth; because we have not realized that there is some interest to be paid for this education; we went to a Corporation to learn about God, not realizing that the Corporation has hidden motives. Now just like J&J or any other corporation, they have stated motives also, that being to provide us a product for consumption, which is benign enough, but the point here is that we are seeking answers from a Book that actually only illuminates questions, and so since we find what we seek, we get indoctrinated into accepting that pastors should get money for showing us facts from the Book, and we don't get around to reading about 2Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, watching over them--not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; or 11It is necessary to silence them; they overthrow whole households by teaching what they shouldn't in order to get money dishonestly until we crack the Book for ourselves, because these and many other passages--like for instance direct instructions from Christ about leaving town two by two, and many others--are never going to be heard in a sermon from a pastor, because after all he got where he is the same way a seeker got into his pew; by being led.

And i am not meaning to put this system down, ok, it is a great system, because after all you find what you seek, and i don't know about you but i came seeking to escape hell, i feared hell in the afterlife, and these people seemed quite confident that they had found a way to "go to heaven"--after they died of course--and that comforted me for like 40 years or so, until the weight of other Scripture that i read extra-curricularly--the parts that whisper--just got to be too heavy. And questions about people "pointing to" some kingdom in the future, "over there" iow, and questions about passages like "you do not know where you came from, or where you are going" just got me mean looks or reprimands, whatever. So the Book had become the Word, and if i didn't like it i could just leave--with prejudice, apparently.

Now this might seem like a cruel setup, the way i am describing it, but actually it is a perfect system, a great way to absorb some Scripture--which after all is all true, if you can find It, because you do have to seek--and get you started on a path, wherein you either have found what you seek, or become dissatisfied with what you have found, after contemplating what your "first love" actually was, or whatever. Comparing the gifts of the Spirit to the examples who are now teaching your kids, perhaps. Reading that Paul assures us that as soon as he left, the wolves would take over. Finding "works unto rebound" (repentance) practiced, but not preached. A hundred, a thousand different ways--for a Catholic who has dared to start reading the Book on their own, i guess this would be even easier; but i mean no offense here, ok, no one is any better off in any other religion, or even out of it for that matter--none of these describe one's heart, what God judges.

So, all that being said, i am ow going to give you my opinion on the passages you quoted; because an opinion is all that i have, ok, and i hope you come to see that that is all the pope has, too. Btw gotta love this pope, huh? I am a firm believer in not bothering to join the mafia to change it from within, but he is on a different path, and that would be judging. So,

Is. 33:11, 14
"My spirit shall consume you like fire. . . . On Zion sinners are in dread, trembling grips the impious: 'Who of us can live with the consuming fire? Who of us can live with the everlasting flames?'"

first of all, you might reflect upon the disagreement in other translations--many translations; "Your own breath will turn to fire and consume you," seems to be the intent there, even KJV http://biblehub.com/isaiah/33-11.htm. So this changes the meaning of the passage considerably, but you might even notice that the question is "who can live?" in these conditions, and v15 gives the answer; 15The one who lives righteously and speaks rightly, who refuses gain from extortion, whose hand never takes a bribe, who stops his ears from listening to murderous plots and shuts his eyes to avoid endorsing evil-- http://biblehub.com/isaiah/33.htm. Further insight might be gained by seeing that "everlasting" there is not "eternal," but we have a big problem @ "eternal" anyway, maybe we'll get back to that.

So the short answer--which can be seen just by reading the chapter, i think--is that some imaginary future eternal existence is not even being discussed by Isaiah; he is talking about life, today.
Reading it in MSG first might help http://www.biblestudytools.com/msg/isaiah/33.htmlalthough it is suspect, and you lose the symbology.
(18[SIZE=1.3em] [/SIZE]In your mind you'll go over the old terrors: "What happened to that Assyrian inspector who condemned and confiscated? And the one who gouged us of taxes? And that cheating moneychanger?"
19 Gone! Out of sight forever! Their insolence nothing now but a fading stain on the carpet!)


See? All in Erets, ok? 12b [SIZE=19.5px]Earth to earth - and the sooner the better. [/SIZE]

 

[bbyrd009]

Matt. 25:31-34, 41, 46
"He will separate them one from another. . . . Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. . . .' Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels . . .' And these will go off to ETERNAL punishment, but the righteous to eternal life"

ok, personally i would avoid this one until you have got a better conception of "kingdom" and "eternal," defined for yourself, but my answer in this venue climate is that the kingdom is right beside you, and God is outside of time, Einstein even proved that clocks moving at the speed of light are essentially stopped from our pov. But since that is like a cop out, i will also say that i don't mean to imply that there will not be a tomorrow, but that we are compelled by religion to dwell in tomorrow, when we are assured in other places that "the kingdom is very near you," and "on earth as it is in heaven."

So iow imo the Book can be read one way, or another, and "you do not know where you are going, or where you come from," so any understanding that leads you into believing that you do know where you are going--or know anything else, for that matter, as Scripture plainly states--should be suspect. Therefore it would be pointless for me to provide some other guess, but i will anyway, along the lines of something like "those who come, and inherit the kingdom prepared for them, which exists right now, very near to you, these are the ones who understand, and the others, who do not grasp this message, and seek to save their souls, will lose them. And it will 'eternally' be this way, iow this principle of the kingdom coming to earth is not going to change, that is what is happening, right now, and you can either manifest this, a la Joan of Arc or Gandhi, say, or not, but either way, you are going to die anyway, physically, so you might consider that "eternal punishment" to a God who is defined as Love might just be your everlasting remorse at having waited for the kingdom to come to you in some unknown afterlife--or even getting a mansion in the Sky, where no Wind blows--who knows. Get your vision up out of your navel, maybe, and Understand I AM.

Yes, the sun will come up tomorrow--yet tomorrow never comes, does it? You have not spent one second in tomorrow yet, and you never will. Samuel--accepted--assured Saul and his sons--rejected--that they would be there with him; "you and your sons will be here with me." All go to the same place. So the point might be to see that the Book will give you enough rope to hang yourself, if you are intent upon hanging yourself, so to speak. You can read water or wine; and the old wine is better, they say.

 

[bbyrd009]

ya, so rather than fight this, or point out that "For it is surely just on God's part to repay with afflictions those who are afflicting you" happens just great in the now, right here on earth, as described, i'll just skip the pre-chewed verses there, and go right to

And what is "Gehenna".
Please explain that to me.

and say that i cannot do much better for that than i already did, where i quoted Strong's at Gehenna, and you might see that it is in Erets, earth, (if the references to mythical Greek gods is not clue enough)
http://biblehub.com/greek/1067.htm
and imo don't skip looking into "gay" and "Hinnom" from which Gehanna derive, for further insight. Gehenna is a symbolic place, that represents your "final resting place," you, who are consumed with saving your own soul, and so it is the premises, the assumptions, that must be changed, and it is me that the Book is talking about when it talks about "two men in a bed," or the other homosexual references, etc. The war is in the mirror, and "my 16 year old daughter is pregnant, i am in hell" is likely a perfectly valid euphemism for Gehenna, being as how theologians admit that a current hell as we understand it cannot even be demonstrated from Scripture.

 

[BreadOfLife]

ok, personally i would avoid this one until you have got a better conception of "kingdom" and "eternal," defined for yourself, but my answer in this venue climate is that the kingdom is right beside you, and God is outside of time, Einstein even proved that clocks moving at the speed of light are essentially stopped from our pov. But since that is like a cop out, i will also say that i don't mean to imply that there will not be a tomorrow, but that we are compelled by religion to dwell in tomorrow, when we are assured in other places that "the kingdom is very near you," and "on earth as it is in heaven."

So iow imo the Book can be read one way, or another, and "you do not know where you are going, or where you come from," so any understanding that leads you into believing that you do know where you are going--or know anything else, for that matter, as Scripture plainly states--should be suspect. Therefore it would be pointless for me to provide some other guess, but i will anyway, along the lines of something like "those who come, and inherit the kingdom prepared for them, which exists right now, very near to you, these are the ones who understand, and the others, who do not grasp this message, and seek to save their souls, will lose them. And it will 'eternally' be this way, iow this principle of the kingdom coming to earth is not going to change, that is what is happening, right now, and you can either manifest this, a la Joan of Arc or Gandhi, say, or not, but either way, you are going to die anyway, physically, so you might consider that "eternal punishment" to a God who is defined as Love might just be your everlasting remorse at having waited for the kingdom to come to you in some unknown afterlife--or even getting a mansion in the Sky, where no Wind blows--who knows. Get your vision up out of your navel, maybe, and Understand I AM.

Yes, the sun will come up tomorrow--yet tomorrow never comes, does it? You have not spent one second in tomorrow yet, and you never will. Samuel--accepted--assured Saul and his sons--rejected--that they would be there with him; "you and your sons will be here with me." All go to the same place. So the point might be to see that the Book will give you enough rope to hang yourself, if you are intent upon hanging yourself, so to speak. You can read water or wine; and the old wine is better, they say.

In other words - you DON'T have an answer so you post a long diatribe that leads to nothing.
Just as I thought . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

ya, so rather than fight this, or point out that "For it is surely just on God's part to repay with afflictions those who are afflicting you" happens just great in the now, right here on earth, as described, i'll just skip the pre-chewed verses there, and go right to


and say that i cannot do much better for that than i already did, where i quoted Strong's at Gehenna, and you might see that it is in Erets, earth, (if the references to mythical Greek gods is not clue enough)
http://biblehub.com/greek/1067.htm
and imo don't skip looking into "gay" and "Hinnom" from which Gehanna derive, for further insight. Gehenna is a symbolic place, that represents your "final resting place," you, who are consumed with saving your own soul, and so it is the premises, the assumptions, that must be changed, and it is me that the Book is talking about when it talks about "two men in a bed," or the other homosexual references, etc. The war is in the mirror, and "my 16 year old daughter is pregnant, i am in hell" is likely a perfectly valid euphemism for Gehenna, being as how theologians admit that a current hell as we understand it cannot even be demonstrated from Scripture.

Gehenna was a valley south of Jerusalem where there was a constant burning heap of garbage. It was basically the city dump. It stood on the ground where some of the kings of Judah sacrificed their children and was deemed to be cursed (Jer. 7:31, 19:2-6). It became a Jewish and Christian analogue of HELL.

This is the word that Jesus uses for Hell because the people He was speaking to ALL had an understanding of it being a cursed place of constantly burning rubbish.

 

[bbyrd009]

In other words - you DON'T have an answer so you post a long diatribe that leads to nothing.
Just as I thought . . .

well, as you think, so are you, BoL. Sometimes nothing is a pretty cool hand

 

[bbyrd009]

Gehenna was a valley south of Jerusalem where there was a constant burning heap of garbage. It was basically the city dump. It stood on the ground where some of the kings of Judah sacrificed their children and was deemed to be cursed (Jer. 7:31, 19:2-6). It became a Jewish and Christian analogue of HELL.

This is the word that Jesus uses for Hell because the people He was speaking to ALL had an understanding of it being a cursed place of constantly burning rubbish.

...on Earth, yes. I suggest that Understand I AM, especially when put with the many other clues in Scripture, some of which i mentioned, might lead some to see that this future place that is being "pointed to" as Eternity serves a really good purpose, for those who were/are the meanest in the jungle, and live in fear--now at least many might fear hell in an afterlife, and so practice works, even if from an impure heart. But surely you can see how self-centered this is, and i guess this will sound pretty strange, but your dog, whom you prolly love unconditionally, does not do this, right? So why do we love them like we do?

This touches on Expectations, which i suggest that one lose, entirely. You do not know where you come from. You do not know where you are going. These are one's most accurate statements about the past and the future. And as to the present, He who says he knows does not yet know, which i'm maybe mostly faking it here, but this is why you don't see me trying to defend my beliefs, or get defensive with you some other way, because i have nothing to defend; i prefer to leave myself open to future revelation, which is not possible, see, once you know something, as Religion seems to insist upon.

Notice also that once you know something, you are led to defend it. In my walk, i am seeing many believers--who are sick--now, and who do not understand why their faithful "prayers" for good health are not being answered; such that they are led to cry "miracle" at bone-marrow transplants being "successful" now...a very sad thing, to me. Have you ever tried shaking an old Pentecostal lady's faith? Her faith is in her beliefs, so you practically cannot do it. She has a belief that she can eat anything and it will not "defile" her, and no amount of pointing out that she must have protein and carbs and nutrients to function will prevail.

She has faith in her beliefs now, and feels no need to change her mind, as she lays dying there, from a "successful" bone-marrow transplant. She cannot see that it is her beliefs that are killing her--and imo eating all of those hot dogs is just a manifestation of those beliefs. And you can bet that she has some expectations about her future, too, lol. Well, it would be funny if it wasn't so sad; because she is not the typical carpy religious person, that you are familiar with, i guess. At least not around me. So anyway, i have seen Seven times worse off, and i suspect that i have seen Saved, but as through a fire, too.

Now i understand that there are plenty of passages wherein one might postulate some expectations of the future, ok, i'm not denying that there are. But if i can weep and gnash my teeth right now over something stupid that i did 20 years ago, imo it becomes possible to reflect upon the chance that i might weep and gnash my teeth right there next to Samuel, with Saul and his sons, over things that i did not do when i had the chance. Here on Earth. Where the Kingdom is, and is coming. And all i can suggest to you is that if someone else points to another kingdom, don't bother following them.

23If anyone tells you then, Look, here is the Messiah!' or, Over here!' do not believe it!

 

[BreadOfLife]

...on Earth, yes. I suggest that Understand I AM, especially when put with the many other clues in Scripture, some of which i mentioned, might lead some to see that this future place that is being "pointed to" as Eternity serves a really good purpose, for those who were/are the meanest in the jungle, and live in fear--now at least many might fear hell in an afterlife, and so practice works, even if from an impure heart. But surely you can see how self-centered this is, and i guess this will sound pretty strange, but your dog, whom you prolly love unconditionally, does not do this, right? So why do we love them like we do?

This touches on Expectations, which i suggest that one lose, entirely. You do not know where you come from. You do not know where you are going. These are one's most accurate statements about the past and the future. And as to the present, He who says he knows does not yet know, which i'm maybe mostly faking it here, but this is why you don't see me trying to defend my beliefs, or get defensive with you some other way, because i have nothing to defend; i prefer to leave myself open to future revelation, which is not possible, see, once you know something, as Religion seems to insist upon.

Notice also that once you know something, you are led to defend it. In my walk, i am seeing many believers--who are sick--now, and who do not understand why their faithful "prayers" for good health are not being answered; such that they are led to cry "miracle" at bone-marrow transplants being "successful" now...a very sad thing, to me. Have you ever tried shaking an old Pentecostal lady's faith? Her faith is in her beliefs, so you practically cannot do it. She has a belief that she can eat anything and it will not "defile" her, and no amount of pointing out that she must have protein and carbs and nutrients to function will prevail.

She has faith in her beliefs now, and feels no need to change her mind, as she lays dying there, from a "successful" bone-marrow transplant. She cannot see that it is her beliefs that are killing her--and imo eating all of those hot dogs is just a manifestation of those beliefs. And you can bet that she has some expectations about her future, too, lol. Well, it would be funny if it wasn't so sad; because she is not the typical carpy religious person, that you are familiar with, i guess. At least not around me. So anyway, i have seen Seven times worse off, and i suspect that i have seen Saved, but as through a fire, too.

Now i understand that there are plenty of passages wherein one might postulate some expectations of the future, ok, i'm not denying that there are. But if i can weep and gnash my teeth right now over something stupid that i did 20 years ago, imo it becomes possible to reflect upon the chance that i might weep and gnash my teeth right there next to Samuel, with Saul and his sons, over things that i did not do when i had the chance. Here on Earth. Where the Kingdom is, and is coming. And all i can suggest to you is that if someone else points to another kingdom, don't bother following them.

23If anyone tells you then, Look, here is the Messiah!' or, Over here!' do not believe it!

As usual, you long confused diatribe doesn't address the point at hand - which is the reality of Hell.
You droned on about all sorts of things, including bone marrow transplants bu completely danced around my Scriptural evidence for Hell.

Good job . . .

 

[bbyrd009]

As usual, you long confused diatribe doesn't address the point at hand - which is the reality of Hell.
You droned on about all sorts of things, including bone marrow transplants bu completely danced around my Scriptural evidence for Hell.

Good job . . .

Your evidence for hell does not stand up to the Theological debate that acknowledges that a present hell cannot even be verified, with all due respect. I could google it for you, if you like.
But as i said, i have no desire to sway the fearful from a concept of a future hell, if that is all that keeps them in check.
Have a good day.