Please HELP Dan. 2:45

[DaDad]

Hi Retrobyter,

Well, since I think you're CRAZY for even TRYING to explain the significance of each of the two "INTELLIGENT DESIGN sequences," why don't you just cut to the chase and provide them. (THIS ought to be rich.)

I believe you will find your answer as follows:

2 Peter 3:3
3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
...
17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.


And once again, please cease with the false religious greeting. Your hypocrisy is unbecoming.

Goodluck,
DD

 

[Retrobyter]

SHALOM, DaDad.

Hi Retrobyter,




I believe you will find your answer as follows:

2 Peter 3:3
3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
...
17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.


And once again, please cease with the false religious greeting. Your hypocrisy is unbecoming.

Goodluck,
DD

It's not a "false religious greeting" to wish you PEACE! I do pray that you receive His peace! Nor am I hypocritical to tell you that I love you as a brother when I sign my post "In the Messiah's love." I just believe that in THIS matter, you've reached WAY BEYOND what the Scriptures provide! Let GOD be true and EVERY MAN a LIAR! Repeat after me: "I'm NOT God; therefore I AM lying (about SOMETHING), whether I know it or not!"

 

[DaDad]

I do pray that you receive His peace!

Well, since I think you're CRAZY ... (THIS ought to be rich.)

So which side of your mouth are you speaking from at this moment?






To All,

I believe Jesus addressed hypocrisy as follows:

Matt. 12:34
33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. 36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”


And if one man questions another, then let the latter defend the Gospel. But if one man slanders another, then let the former be held accountable.


With Best Regards,
DD

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, DaDad.

(First, you quoted my statement:
I do pray that you receive His peace!

Then, you quoted my statement:

Well, since I think you're CRAZY ... (THIS ought to be rich.))

So which side of your mouth are you speaking from at this moment?



To All,

I believe Jesus addressed hypocrisy as follows:

Matt. 12:34
33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. 36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”


And if one man questions another, then let the latter defend the Gospel. But if one man slanders another, then let the former be held accountable.


With Best Regards,
DD

Ridiculous. It's not a personal affront to you to question your theory! And, there you go again accusing me of hypocrisy and now slander! Just answer the question and quit falling back to a "poor me" strategy!

 

[DaDad]

...

Goodluck,
DaDad

 

[DaDad]

To All,

Has anyone noticed that the "mystery" of GOD's Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE remains unsolved? Certainly there have been denials as to the INTELLIGENT DESIGN of this sequence; there have been attempts to accrue this sequence to anyone but GOD (presumably so that they can deny disobedience of Scripture); and there were tangents which attempted to divert attention from the question. But in all these "contributions" to this Topic, NONE were able explain why GOD specified the 4,3,5,2,1 sequence.

In some circles, if an individual did not know an answer they would say: "I don't know." But it would seem that in this "community" we've seen every response except: "I don't know." Which is in contrast to when Jesus did not know the day or the hour, he said HE DID NOT KNOW. So is there a lesson to be learned here? Are we to judge the "prophets" as Scripture demands? And do we judge righteously?


1 Cor. 14:29
Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.

Dan. 2:45
... the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold ...


With Best Regards,
DD

To All,

It looks like the "great minds" in this Forum have continued to come up empty. However I believe that GOD's Word is PERFECT, and we can know HIS plan and purpose for HIS creation. Otherwise, GOD wouldn't have provided HIS Word and HIS promise:

Jeremiah 33:3

3 Call to me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things which you have not known.




So who will Ignore GOD's Design and what will be his/her reward?

Hosea 4:6
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge;


Versus who will ponder GOD's Design, and what will be his/her reward?

Psalms 91

9 Because you have made the Lord your refuge,
the Most High your habitation,
10 no evil shall befall you,
no scourge come near your tent.


11 For he will give his angels charge of you
to guard you in all your ways.
12 On their hands they will bear you up,
lest you dash your foot against a stone.
13 You will tread on the lion and the adder,
the young lion and the serpent you will trample under foot.


14 Because he cleaves to me in love, I will deliver him;
I will protect him, because he knows my name.
15 When he calls to me, I will answer him;
I will be with him in trouble,
I will rescue him and honor him.
16 With long life I will satisfy him,
and show him my salvation.



With Best Regards,
DD

 

[shturt678]

Dan.2:45, "...crushed the iron (a metal that was peculiarly distinctive of Rome, having been used in Roman armor and weapons and being symbolic of the cruel hardness which Rome displayed in dealing with her adversaries), the bronze (metal used for implements of war of course, can be shown to have been distinctive of that which the Greeks emphasized and developed above all other nations), the clay (marriage, intermarriage with iron for an improper means for attaining an end in as in v.43), the silver (a term that is synonymous with money in Hebrew and in other languages, marked in a peculiar way the more commercial spirit of Medo-Persia whcih sought to acquire wealth and expressed its ambitions and its sense of values in terms of money acquired), and the gold (gold was in a peculiar sense the metal that distinguished Babylon, having been used more profusely by her than by other nations in images, shrines, and adornments fo the temples of the gods).

Old Jack, ie, we can agree to disagree,

btw from the lowest of paygrade 'minds,' me, from the material drawn from an ancient language class

 

[DaDad]

Dan.2:45, "...crushed the iron

Hi shturt678,

I believe most can read, and probably wish they couldn't, -- because their doctrines contradict the Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE world empire sequence, -- which you so skilfully avoided addressing. GOOD JOB!



To All,

Once again another contributor to this Forum has craftily avoided answering what Scripture stipulates, and History fulfills. And so I would propose that the Great Stone will indeed smash not only the Metropolis modeled world empires, but also those doctrines which defy the TRUTH of Scripture.


With Best Regards,
DD

 

[shturt678]

Hi shturt678,

I believe most can read, and probably wish they couldn't, -- because their doctrines contradict the Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE world empire sequence, -- which you so skilfully avoided addressing. GOOD JOB!

To All,

Once again another contributor to this Forum has craftily avoided answering what Scripture stipulates, and History fulfills. And so I would propose that the Great Stone will indeed smash not only the Metropolis modeled world empires, but also those doctrines which defy the TRUTH of Scripture.


With Best Regards,
DD

Thank you for your response, and caring!

Dan.2:45, "Stone" = Kingdom of the Godman Christ = Kingdom of God. Christ's Kingom outlasts them all, and conquers them. It's the power that has the hardness of stone that endudres and yet grows till, mountain like, it towers over and fill the entire world.

btw if you're without sin, cast the first 'stone,' old Jack ^_^ lol with you sir, ie, watch out for that 'Stone,' if you bump into the "Kingdom of Christ," ACQUIRE IT ASAP (Matt.13:44, etc.)

One cannot help to agape the "Kingdom of Christ."

 

[Floyd]

Thank you for your response, and caring!

Dan.2:45, "Stone" = Kingdom of the Godman Christ = Kingdom of God. Christ's Kingom outlasts them all, and conquers them. It's the power that has the hardness of stone that endudres and yet grows till, mountain like, it towers over and fill the entire world.

btw if you're without sin, cast the first 'stone,' old Jack ^_^ lol with you sir, ie, watch out for that 'Stone,' if you bump into the "Kingdom of Christ," ACQUIRE IT ASAP (Matt.13:44, etc.)

One cannot help to agape the "Kingdom of Christ."

Jack; I don't understand how you can be convinced that Satan is bound now (since the cross) with so much evil perpetrated in the last 2000 years? One only has to look at the book of Acts alone to see that after Christ's Ascension, Evil was still evident everywhere!
How do you reconcile all the evil still in the world; as Satan is the author of evil?
How do you reconcile the statement by Christ and Paul that "Satan is the god (prince) of this world" ; and Paul's was after Christ's Ascension?
I have watched your posts with interest, as I believe you are sincere; and I am sure you understand what I am saying here! Therefore, I know you will answer truthfully the above sincere questions.
Regards, Floyd.

 

[Purity]

How do you reconcile all the evil still in the world; as Satan is the author of evil?

Hmmm let me see.

Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one (flesh personified) , and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. 1 John 3:12

Let me see here...what else did John say about this..thats right - lets ask John.

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 John 2:16

John, when you mean "all" that is in the world, do actually mean all here?

Yes Purity! The flesh is the adversary and the false accuser or styled devil and satan which was put to death through the death of Jesus Christ on the cross.

No... couldn't be true!.

Yes Purity it is - Paul here expounds it very clear in Heb 2:14,15.

So when Paul states the devil is DEAD do you mean the devil was his fleshly propensities which were prompting him to sin, which temptations he overcame by obeying His Fathers word.

Yes Purity.

Boy, and I thought all this time it was some supernatural fiery creature which rules in a place of eternal fire.

No Purity - that was introduced long ago through Egyptian Metaphysics and passed down through the ECF's.

Glad you could clear this up for me John, but maybe you might like to talk with Floyd here as he has that dreaded infection - maybe a demon?.

No Purity - he is deceived along with many others who have taken up believing in many gods.

 

[Floyd]

Your defence of Satan, again confirms your eventual fate!
Only those who deny Christ Jesus, and defend Satan are due the fate of Rev.20!
Floyd. Satan's Motivation

Hmmm let me see.

Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one (flesh personified) , and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. 1 John 3:12

Let me see here...what else did John say about this..thats right - lets ask John.

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 John 2:16

John, when you mean "all" that is in the world, do actually mean all here?

Yes Purity! The flesh is the adversary and the false accuser or styled devil and satan which was put to death through the death of Jesus Christ on the cross.

No... couldn't be true!.

Yes Purity it is - Paul here expounds it very clear in Heb 2:14,15.

So when Paul states the devil is DEAD do you mean the devil was his fleshly propensities which were prompting him to sin, which temptations he overcame by obeying His Fathers word.

Yes Purity.

Boy, and I thought all this time it was some supernatural fiery creature which rules in a place of eternal fire.

No Purity - that was introduced long ago through Egyptian Metaphysics and passed down through the ECF's.

Glad you could clear this up for me John, but maybe you might like to talk with Floyd here as he has that dreaded infection - maybe a demon?.

No Purity - he is deceived along with many others who have taken up believing in many gods.

Your defence of Satan; and denial of Christ Jesus; means your place in Rev.13-14 and 20!
Floyd. Satan's Motivation

 

[DaDad]

Hi shturt678

Dan.2:45, "Stone"

If you don't want to answer the question as presented, please do not feel obligated to post distractions from the question as presented.

With Best Regards,
DD





To All,

This Topic was created to address the Intelligent Design of Daniel 2:45, Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE World Empires. If any would divert the focus of this Scripture to other considerations, please fee free to create a New Topic.

With Best Regards,
DD



POST #1



To All,


INTRODUCTION

Daniel Chapter 2 outlines the sequence of world empires, which most would propose is as follows:

1. Head of Gold, -- Babylonian
2. Breast of Silver, -- Medo/Persian
3. Belly of Bronze, -- Grecian
4a Legs of Iron, -- Roman
4b Feet of Clay, -- Revived Roman

However, verse 45 provides the following text:

Dan. 2:45
the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold

... which appears to deliberately propose a 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE World Empire scenario.


I have argued that this appears to align with world history, in that today's FIFTH empire of Clay is "divided" between 3-superpowers:

Dan 2:41
And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom


... and that a residue Iron exists in virtually all governments in this empire of Clay, because when the Roman Empire collapsed, there was no conqueror to establish a NEW model. So the disparate kingdoms, fifedoms, and regions simply retained the Roman Representative Republic model (Iron), and became independent governments (Clay), as evidenced by our own Pledge of Allegiance:

... and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation under GOD, indivisible ...


PROBLEM

Many people have insisted that the 1,2,3,4a/4b model is complete and that the 4,3,5,2,1 sequence does not alter that the world empires end at the Roman Empire. However, they leave it there, without any explanation for the significance of the 4,3,5,2,1.


NEED ASSISTANCE

I believe that GOD is the PERFECT Intelligent Designer, but I cannot come up with an alternate rationale for the 4,3,5,2,1.


PLEASE help identify why GOD added this sequence in the Perfection of HIS WORD:

Dan. 2:45
the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold




Thanks in advance,
DD




PS:
COROLLARY
I believe that GM uses an intelligent design in the firing order of their pre-LS series 8-cylinder engines: 1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2. And I would expect that if GM is intelligent, that GOD is much more so.
Perhaps someone can explain how that expectation is either misguided, or misplaced.

 

[Floyd]

Hi shturt678


If you don't want to answer the question as presented, please do not feel obligated to post distractions from the question as presented.

With Best Regards,
DD





To All,

This Topic was created to address the Intelligent Design of Daniel 2:45, Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE World Empires. If any would divert the focus of this Scripture to other considerations, please fee free to create a New Topic.

With Best Regards,
DD



POST #1



To All,


INTRODUCTION

Daniel Chapter 2 outlines the sequence of world empires, which most would propose is as follows:

1. Head of Gold, -- Babylonian
2. Breast of Silver, -- Medo/Persian
3. Belly of Bronze, -- Grecian
4a Legs of Iron, -- Roman
4b Feet of Clay, -- Revived Roman

However, verse 45 provides the following text:

Dan. 2:45
the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold

... which appears to deliberately propose a 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE World Empire scenario.


I have argued that this appears to align with world history, in that today's FIFTH empire of Clay is "divided" between 3-superpowers:

Dan 2:41
And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom


... and that a residue Iron exists in virtually all governments in this empire of Clay, because when the Roman Empire collapsed, there was no conqueror to establish a NEW model. So the disparate kingdoms, fifedoms, and regions simply retained the Roman Representative Republic model (Iron), and became independent governments (Clay), as evidenced by our own Pledge of Allegiance:

... and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation under GOD, indivisible ...


PROBLEM

Many people have insisted that the 1,2,3,4a/4b model is complete and that the 4,3,5,2,1 sequence does not alter that the world empires end at the Roman Empire. However, they leave it there, without any explanation for the significance of the 4,3,5,2,1.


NEED ASSISTANCE

I believe that GOD is the PERFECT Intelligent Designer, but I cannot come up with an alternate rationale for the 4,3,5,2,1.


PLEASE help identify why GOD added this sequence in the Perfection of HIS WORD:

Dan. 2:45
the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold




Thanks in advance,
DD




PS:
COROLLARY
I believe that GM uses an intelligent design in the firing order of their pre-LS series 8-cylinder engines: 1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2. And I would expect that if GM is intelligent, that GOD is much more so.
Perhaps someone can explain how that expectation is either misguided, or misplaced.

Hi DD.
IMO; I suspect that your 5th power is not valid due to it not being in the "prophetic area", and Israel still "lo-ammi".
My own guess work is based on that premise (which may or may not be valid).
The lo-ammi aspect is probably + or - a few years overlap on their readoption by Jehovah God (Jehovah here meaning Elohim in Covenant Relationship with Israel); in which case if my guess is correct; the 5th power must be just prior to, "the Day of The Lord" (i.e. the Day of Jehovah Zebaoth); and be of the nations of the "prophetic area", (defined as that of all the previous Empires of the know world of the history of Israel.
They will probably be a mix of the previously military Roman Empire, and 10 or 9 of their minor states towards the end of their power cycle.
As I stated DD, this is only my own tentative conclusion; and is not meant as bait for extensive discussion; as at present nobody knows the exact answer to your points.
Regards.
Floyd. America in prophecy:

[SIZE=13.5pt]Confederation of 10 Nations[/SIZE]

 

[DaDad]

Hi Floyd,

IMO; I suspect that your 5th power is not valid due to it not being in the "prophetic are

Please allow the following:

Dan. 2:45
the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE

Dan. 2:41
41 And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom; but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the miry clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle.



One can argue various points regarding expectations, but I believe this FIFTH empire of Clay is clearly both in Scripture AND History.


With Best Regards,
DD

 

[Floyd]

Hi Floyd,


Please allow the following:

Dan. 2:45
the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE

Dan. 2:41
41 And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom; but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the miry clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle.



One can argue various points regarding expectations, but I believe this FIFTH empire of Clay is clearly both in Scripture AND History.


With Best Regards,
DD

Yes DD; it is in Scripture, and in history relative to Israel IMO also.
I hope in my lifetime to see the result.
Floyd.

 

[DaDad]

Hi Floyd,

it is in Scripture, and in history relative to Israel IMO also.

If you accept Scripture and history (i.e., "divided" empire of Clay, -- between THREE Superpowers), you should arrive to Daniel 7, which details those same THREE Superpowers:

Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S.
Bear, Russia
Leopard (actually a "Tiger"), China

... plus find the one-world-government:

"dreadful", U.N.



As to finding Israel, -- you might consider that this Book is written to the Nations, NOT Israel. The ONLY prophecy for Israel is given under the Mantle of Jeremiah in Chapter 9. And it is ONLY under this Mantle that Israel is cited, -- other than it's involvement in international events as cited in Chapter 11 per the attack on the Neve Shalom.which occurred in November, 1986..


And such you might consider accepting the Prophecies of Daniel in the context which they are provided.


With Best Regards,
DD

 

[Purity]

Your defence of Satan, again confirms your eventual fate!
Only those who deny Christ Jesus, and defend Satan are due the fate of Rev.20!
Floyd. Satan's Motivation

I believe you have that the wrong way round Floyd.

Here is how it should read...

Your denial of Satan being a fallen angel, again confirms your eventual fate! Ah the manifestation of the Sons of God because this world groans in flesh and sin not some imaginary fiery creature of your liking.

Rom 8:19

 

[DaDad]

Your denial of Satan being a fallen angel,

Hi Purity,

This will be your last advisement that this Topic addresses the Intelligent Design of Daniel 2:45 Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE. The next time you detract from this Topic, I will request that a Moderator intervene.


Phil 1:15
15 Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. 16 The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel; 17 the former proclaim Christ out of partisanship, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me ...


DD

 

[Floyd]

Your defence of Satan, again confirms your eventual fate!
Only those who deny Christ Jesus, and defend Satan are due the fate of Rev.20!
Floyd. Satan's Motivation