DD
This is a common case of hypocrisy as I was replying to the wrong teaching in Floyd's post. Maybe your post should be directed to him?
P.
Please HELP Dan. 2:45
- Thread starter DaDad
- Start date
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This is a common case of hypocrisy as I was replying to the wrong teaching in Floyd's post. Maybe your post should be directed to him?
P.
To All,
Back to the Topic, where I would propose that Daniel 2:45 Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE, depicts a FIVE world empire scenario, as evidenced today where the FIFTH empire of Clay is "divided" between the THREE Superpowers.
With Best Regards,
DD
Back to the Topic, where I would propose that Daniel 2:45 Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE, depicts a FIVE world empire scenario, as evidenced today where the FIFTH empire of Clay is "divided" between the THREE Superpowers.
With Best Regards,
DD
Thank you for caring!DaDad said:
I still strongly feel, ie, my favorite 'topic,' Dan.2:45, should be contextually understood in light of v.44, "or as much as thou didst see that a stone was torn loose...." I sort of told a white lie, ie, my favorite 'topic' is the stone in v.44.
Dan.2:44, "....shall raise up a kingdom..." meaning? Clue #1: The N.T. "Kingdom of God" is grounded in Daniel - "the Kingdom (malkhu) of God." I wonder if "it shall eternally not be destroyed" solves the crux? I'll let you construe the stone topic in v.44 with v.45's topic?
Old Jack
Hi shturt678,
When you are interested in addressing this passage, please feel free to join us.
With Best Regards,
DD
Please feel free to address any discussion you might like to host. In the meantime, this Topic is reserved for the discussion of Daniel 2:45 Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE.shturt678 said:
When you are interested in addressing this passage, please feel free to join us.
With Best Regards,
DD
Thank you for your response again!DaDad said:
You're a bright Christian, and it surprises me that you don't consider Dan.2:44 as an integral part of the OP - yet you considered Dan.2:41 as part of the OP?
Old Jack
btw the solution lies in the context that v.45 is within in light of IIPet.1:20, 21.
To All,
INTRODUCTION
Daniel Chapter 2 outlines the sequence of world empires, which most would propose is as follows:
1. Head of Gold, -- Babylonian
2. Breast of Silver, -- Medo/Persian
3. Belly of Bronze, -- Grecian
4a Legs of Iron, -- Roman
4b Feet of Clay, -- Revived Roman
However, verse 45 provides the following text:
Dan. 2:45
the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold
... which appears to deliberately propose a 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE World Empire scenario.
Where are the Christians, who can hear from the Holy Spirit and share with the greater body of believers? Do we only have the religious?
With Best Regards,
DD
INTRODUCTION
Daniel Chapter 2 outlines the sequence of world empires, which most would propose is as follows:
1. Head of Gold, -- Babylonian
2. Breast of Silver, -- Medo/Persian
3. Belly of Bronze, -- Grecian
4a Legs of Iron, -- Roman
4b Feet of Clay, -- Revived Roman
However, verse 45 provides the following text:
Dan. 2:45
the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold
... which appears to deliberately propose a 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE World Empire scenario.
Where are the Christians, who can hear from the Holy Spirit and share with the greater body of believers? Do we only have the religious?
With Best Regards,
DD
DD:DaDad said:
not wishing to be controversial with you on this subject; as I feel as I said previously that what you are seeking will be apparent when we are closer to the events.
However; your comment;
"Where are the Christians, who can hear from the Holy Spirit and share with the greater body of believers? Do we only have the religious?"
This seems to imply that you think there is a hierarchy of believers, some who can, some who cannot hear from the HS!?
If that is the case, and you are one of the fortunate "hearers"; please enlighten those of us not so blessed.
Floyd.
Jack, you didn't answer the above points?Floyd said:
Floyd.
Fromm DD.
Has anyone noticed that the "mystery" of GOD's Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE remains unsolved? Certainly there have been denials as to the INTELLIGENT DESIGN of this sequence; there have been attempts to accrue this sequence to anyone but GOD (presumably so that they can deny disobedience of Scripture); and there were tangents which attempted to divert attention from the question. But in all these "contributions" to this Topic, NONE were able explain why GOD specified the 4,3,5,2,1 sequence.
From Floyd.
DD, this is my take on this at present:
Daniel 2:35 and 2:45.
Occasionally a comment is made regarding the differences in the order of the Kingdoms of the above two verses. Most people however read them and do not question, or see the differences especially in early Bible study.
Chapter two of Daniel’s book, concerns the dream which was had by King Nebuchadnezzar, which troubled him to the extent that he could not sleep.
He summoned to his presence his “magicians, astrologers, and sorcerers”; who were commanded to give the interpretation of the dream which he had dreamed!
They asked the King to give the dream to them, so that they could give him the meaning. The King refused, stating that they should know the dream, and that would convince him that they could give the true interpretation!
When they could not, the King ordered that they all be put to death, which was underway, when the executioners came to Daniel. Daniel requested an audience with the King, which was granted; and he requested a small time, so that he would be able to tell the King both the dream and its meaning.
Daniel and his companions prayed to God; and the secret was revealed to Daniel in a “night vision”.
Daniel prayed to God with thanks and praise for the revelations, which is incorporated in Dan.2:20-23.
He then went to Arioch the King’s Captain, appointed to execute all Babylon’s wise men, asking him not to continue the executions, as he had the dream and its interpretation for the king to hear.
Daniel was immediately granted presence to the King who requested confirmation of the statement by Arioch. Daniel confirmed that he was able to tell the King what his dream was, and after witnessing to the “God of Heaven”, Who was able to give and reveal “secrets”; and that He had “made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what would be in the latter days”
Daniel then commenced to give the dream the King had received, a great image of a man, Dan.2:32-33:
- A head of gold. (Babylonia)
- Chest and arms of silver. (Medo-Persia)
- Belly and thighs of bronze. (Greece)
- Legs of iron. (Rome)
- Feet part iron and clay. ( Probably Rev Chapter 13http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/chapter13.html[SIZE=medium] )[/SIZE]
Dan. 2:34 shows the King observing as “stone was cut without hands” (an act of God alone), which struck the feet, “and crushed them in pieces”!
Dan. 2:35 shows “the stone” striking the image in the order of 4,5,3,2,1, above. The stone then “became a great mountain and filled the whole earth”!
Daniel then explained to Nebuchadnezzar that he was “that head of Gold”, and that the metals below him would be inferior kingdoms which would subsume his, in the same land area, (this is considered the “prophetic area); until the “feet and toes” would be the most unstable (mix of iron and clay, the toes representing ten kings V 43-44).
The feet of iron and clay #5 above, has not yet existed. That it will have initially 10 kings, and is at the lower extremities of the legs;
#4 above, indicates that it is the extremities of the Roman Empire, and is made up of those countries that were at the end of the power of Rome, and at the southern or lower end of the legs. Those countries coincide with the listings given in Scripture, see: Confederation of 10 Nationshttp://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Confederation of 10 Nations.htm
It is interesting to note that in Dan.2:45, the order of Empires is not the same as v35. This probably because “the stone” deals with those areas which will again have power in the order given; 4,3,5,2,1; so as to be most effective with the degrees of power then exerted.
“The stone” is of course Christ Jesus Messiah, at His second Advent, dealing with the whole world!
Thank you for the head's up brother Floyd, and thank you too brother DaDad!Floyd said:
Wasn't my old age this time, wrapped up my hospital ministry pretty much yesterday, ie, pretty much all day in the hospital with another in bad shape, and family members, ie, Jacksters back and will respond soon.
Old Jack,
Agape those 'head's up'!
Thank you again!Floyd said:
Making sure we stay on topic, ie, Dan.2:45, "a stone was torn loose....the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold, ie, I already explained the choice of metals which were descriptive symbolically of the successive empires previously stated, however it was suggested my response was off topic? Dan.2:44, "the God of heaven shall raise up a Kingdom which shall eternally not be destroyed" The stone = Kingdom.
The on topic point: the binding of Satan at the Cross means that he personally shall not prevent the heralding of the gospel to all the nations regarding the Christian era Kingdom. Once the nations were without this heralding, all were under the deception of Satan, personally. One nation alone had the valid Word of God.
After the Cross, Satan can only work through the antichristian propaganda (deceptive activity) and the antichristian seduction. Not Satan personally, seats himself in the very sanctuary of God (IIThess.2:4), but the Antichristian personified, ie, "propaganda," ie, Satan's agencies, where Satan is worshipped unknowingly of course where the worshippers actually think they are worshipping our Lord. "Sanctuary of God" compose the Kingdom = Stone thus still on topic.
What do you think will be the result of mass worship of Satan, ie,through his agencies, where they think they are worhipping our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?
Old Jack trying squeeze into the Stone.
DD; this is my modified submission.
Floyd.
Daniel 2:35 and 2:45
[SIZE=16pt]Occasionally a comment is made regarding the differences in the order of the Kingdoms of the above two verses. Most people however read them and do not question, or see the differences especially in early Bible study.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Chapter two of Daniel’s book, concerns the dream which was had by King Nebuchadnezzar, which troubled him to the extent that he could not sleep.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]He summoned to his presence his “magicians, astrologers, and sorcerers”; who were commanded to give the interpretation of the dream which he had dreamed![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]They asked the King to give the dream to them, so that they could give him the meaning. The King refused, stating that they should know the dream, and that would convince him that they could give the true interpretation![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]When they could not, the King ordered that they all be put to death, which was underway, when the executioners came to Daniel. Daniel requested an audience with the King, which was granted; and he requested a small time, so that he would be able to tell the King both the dream and its meaning.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel and his companions prayed to God; and the secret was revealed to Daniel in a “night vision”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel prayed to God with thanks and praise for the revelations, which is incorporated in Dan. 2:20-23.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]He then went to Arioch the King’s Captain, appointed to execute all Babylon’s wise men, asking him not to continue the executions, as he had the dream and its interpretation for the King to hear.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel was immediately granted presence to the King who requested confirmation of the statement by Arioch. Daniel confirmed that he was able to tell the King what his dream was, and after witnessing to the “God of Heaven”, Who was able to give and reveal “secrets”; and that He had “made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what would be in the latter days”[/SIZE]. These “latter days correspond to Gen. 49:1; Num. 24:14; Deut. 4:30; and 31:29. The whole of this prophecy from the dying Jacob, is pertinent to Daniel’s prophecy; particularly V.24; which reveals the origin of “the Stone of Israel”! That “Stone” is the one mentioned in Dan. 2:25, 35 and 45; and He is the “Christ” of God, the Saviour of Christians; and the Messiah of Israel and prophecy!
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel then commenced to give the dream the King had received, a great image of a man, Dan. 2:32-33:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]1) A head of gold. (Babylonia)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]2) Chest and arms of silver. (Medo-Persia)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]3) Belly and thighs of bronze. (Greece)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]4) Legs of iron. (Rome)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]5) Feet part iron and clay (Probably Rev Chapter 13[/SIZE])
[SIZE=16pt]Verse 2:34 shows the King observing as “a stone was cut without hands” (an act of God alone), which struck the feet, “and crushed them in pieces”![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Dan. 2:35 shows “the stone” apparently striking the image in the order of 4,5,3,2,1, above. The stone then “became a great mountain and filled the whole earth”! However; V.34 clearly states that the “feet of iron and clay” were struck first! The apparent anomaly of the different order of “crushing” in V.45; in all probability does not exist, because we are told in V.35 that the areas of the Kingdoms are “crushed together”; which probably means at the same time![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel then explained to Nebuchadnezzar that he was “that head of Gold”, and that the metals below him would be inferior Kingdoms which would subsume his, in the same land area, (this is considered the “prophetic area”); until the “feet and toes” would be the most unstable (mix of iron and clay, the toes representing ten Kings Vs 43-44).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The feet of iron and clay #5 above, has not yet existed. That it will have initially 10 Kings, and is at the lower extremities of the legs; #4 above, indicates that it is the extremities of the Roman Empire, and is made up of those countries that were at the end of the power of Rome, and at the southern or lower end of the legs. Those countries coincide with the listings given in Scripture, see: Confederation of 10 Nations[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]It is interesting to note that in Dan. 2:45, the order of Empires is not the same as v35. This probably because “the stone” (Christ Jesus Messiah) deals with those areas which will again have power in the order given; 4,3,5,2,1; so as to be most effective with the degrees of power then exerted; and to have maximum and expeditious effect. The fact that in V.45 the “clay” is in the middle of the image, may well represent is infiltration into the whole body of the image, and the countries and land areas that each represents. That would mean that the “clay” had spread westwards including Greece, Rome in its old boundaries; east to old Persia (Iran) and beyond; north to Babylonia (Iraq) and the Caucuses etc. These are apparently limits of the old Empire, and the “Prophetic area”![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]“The stone” is of course as mentioned Christ Jesus Messiah, at His second Advent, dealing with the whole world, not just the old “prophetic area”![/SIZE]
Floyd.
Daniel 2:35 and 2:45
[SIZE=16pt]Occasionally a comment is made regarding the differences in the order of the Kingdoms of the above two verses. Most people however read them and do not question, or see the differences especially in early Bible study.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Chapter two of Daniel’s book, concerns the dream which was had by King Nebuchadnezzar, which troubled him to the extent that he could not sleep.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]He summoned to his presence his “magicians, astrologers, and sorcerers”; who were commanded to give the interpretation of the dream which he had dreamed![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]They asked the King to give the dream to them, so that they could give him the meaning. The King refused, stating that they should know the dream, and that would convince him that they could give the true interpretation![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]When they could not, the King ordered that they all be put to death, which was underway, when the executioners came to Daniel. Daniel requested an audience with the King, which was granted; and he requested a small time, so that he would be able to tell the King both the dream and its meaning.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel and his companions prayed to God; and the secret was revealed to Daniel in a “night vision”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel prayed to God with thanks and praise for the revelations, which is incorporated in Dan. 2:20-23.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]He then went to Arioch the King’s Captain, appointed to execute all Babylon’s wise men, asking him not to continue the executions, as he had the dream and its interpretation for the King to hear.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel was immediately granted presence to the King who requested confirmation of the statement by Arioch. Daniel confirmed that he was able to tell the King what his dream was, and after witnessing to the “God of Heaven”, Who was able to give and reveal “secrets”; and that He had “made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what would be in the latter days”[/SIZE]. These “latter days correspond to Gen. 49:1; Num. 24:14; Deut. 4:30; and 31:29. The whole of this prophecy from the dying Jacob, is pertinent to Daniel’s prophecy; particularly V.24; which reveals the origin of “the Stone of Israel”! That “Stone” is the one mentioned in Dan. 2:25, 35 and 45; and He is the “Christ” of God, the Saviour of Christians; and the Messiah of Israel and prophecy!
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel then commenced to give the dream the King had received, a great image of a man, Dan. 2:32-33:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]1) A head of gold. (Babylonia)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]2) Chest and arms of silver. (Medo-Persia)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]3) Belly and thighs of bronze. (Greece)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]4) Legs of iron. (Rome)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]5) Feet part iron and clay (Probably Rev Chapter 13[/SIZE])
[SIZE=16pt]Verse 2:34 shows the King observing as “a stone was cut without hands” (an act of God alone), which struck the feet, “and crushed them in pieces”![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Dan. 2:35 shows “the stone” apparently striking the image in the order of 4,5,3,2,1, above. The stone then “became a great mountain and filled the whole earth”! However; V.34 clearly states that the “feet of iron and clay” were struck first! The apparent anomaly of the different order of “crushing” in V.45; in all probability does not exist, because we are told in V.35 that the areas of the Kingdoms are “crushed together”; which probably means at the same time![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel then explained to Nebuchadnezzar that he was “that head of Gold”, and that the metals below him would be inferior Kingdoms which would subsume his, in the same land area, (this is considered the “prophetic area”); until the “feet and toes” would be the most unstable (mix of iron and clay, the toes representing ten Kings Vs 43-44).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The feet of iron and clay #5 above, has not yet existed. That it will have initially 10 Kings, and is at the lower extremities of the legs; #4 above, indicates that it is the extremities of the Roman Empire, and is made up of those countries that were at the end of the power of Rome, and at the southern or lower end of the legs. Those countries coincide with the listings given in Scripture, see: Confederation of 10 Nations[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]It is interesting to note that in Dan. 2:45, the order of Empires is not the same as v35. This probably because “the stone” (Christ Jesus Messiah) deals with those areas which will again have power in the order given; 4,3,5,2,1; so as to be most effective with the degrees of power then exerted; and to have maximum and expeditious effect. The fact that in V.45 the “clay” is in the middle of the image, may well represent is infiltration into the whole body of the image, and the countries and land areas that each represents. That would mean that the “clay” had spread westwards including Greece, Rome in its old boundaries; east to old Persia (Iran) and beyond; north to Babylonia (Iraq) and the Caucuses etc. These are apparently limits of the old Empire, and the “Prophetic area”![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]“The stone” is of course as mentioned Christ Jesus Messiah, at His second Advent, dealing with the whole world, not just the old “prophetic area”![/SIZE]
[/SIZE]Floyd said:
[SIZE=16pt][/SIZE]
Dan.2, "But the stone" This is the climax being the visible growth of "the stone which had smitten upon the statue." It grew to such gigantic proportions that it became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth." "Earth" must refer to the entire visible area that was beheld in the dream. The noun tur (Hebrew tsur) really means a rock mass or rock. In connections such as these a rock that fills the entire earth is surely a "mountain." So the vision begins with a huge statue; it ends with the hugest possible mountain. Then the interpretation of the dream:
Christ's Kingdom outlasts them all and conquers them. It's the power that ahs the hardness of stone that endures, and yet grows till, mountain-like, it towers over and fills the entire world. "Kingdom of Christ" brother Floyd, ie, not Christ Himself.
Old Jack's view
[/QUOTE]
Dan.2, "But the stone" This is the climax being the visible growth of "the stone which had smitten upon the statue." It grew to such gigantic proportions that it became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth." "Earth" must refer to the entire visible area that was beheld in the dream. The noun tur (Hebrew tsur) really means a rock mass or rock. In connections such as these a rock that fills the entire earth is surely a "mountain." So the vision begins with a huge statue; it ends with the hugest possible mountain. Then the interpretation of the dream:shturt678 said:
Christ's Kingdom outlasts them all and conquers them. It's the power that ahs the hardness of stone that endures, and yet grows till, mountain-like, it towers over and fills the entire world. "Kingdom of Christ" brother Floyd, ie, not Christ Himself.
Old Jack's view
[/QUOTE]
Why do you think your's above conflicts with what I posted?
Floyd.
Thank you for your response and question sir!Floyd said:
The "Stone" = / = Christ contextually here, ie, = "Kingdom of Christ."
Old Jack
This looks like nit-picking Jack!
We do not have common ground here to progress.
I hope we have Christ Jesus in common?
Floyd.
We do not have common ground here to progress.
I hope we have Christ Jesus in common?
Floyd.
Thank you for your response again!Floyd said:
Of course we have the common Godman Christ. We just have a different view of the "Kingdom of God" in Dan.2:45 regarding the "Stone." You believe that the "Stone" here is Christ where we can agree to disagree.
Old Jack
Daniel 2:35 and 2:45
[SIZE=16pt]Occasionally a comment is made regarding the differences in the order of the Kingdoms of the above two verses. Most people however read them and do not question, or see the differences especially in early Bible study.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Chapter two of Daniel’s book, concerns the dream which was had by King Nebuchadnezzar, which troubled him to the extent that he could not sleep.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]He summoned to his presence his “magicians, astrologers, and sorcerers”; who were commanded to give the interpretation of the dream which he had dreamed![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]They asked the King to give the dream to them, so that they could give him the meaning. The King refused, stating that they should know the dream, and that would convince him that they could give the true interpretation![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]When they could not, the King ordered that they all be put to death, which was underway, when the executioners came to Daniel. Daniel requested an audience with the King, which was granted; and he requested a small time, so that he would be able to tell the King both the dream and its meaning.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel and his companions prayed to God; and the secret was revealed to Daniel in a “night vision”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel prayed to God with thanks and praise for the revelations, which is incorporated in Dan. 2:20-23.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]He then went to Arioch the King’s Captain, appointed to execute all Babylon’s wise men, asking him not to continue the executions, as he had the dream and its interpretation for the King to hear.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel was immediately granted presence to the King who requested confirmation of the statement by Arioch. Daniel confirmed that he was able to tell the King what his dream was, and after witnessing to the “God of Heaven”, Who was able to give and reveal “secrets”; and that He had “made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what would be in the latter days”[/SIZE]. These “latter days correspond to Gen. 49:1; Num. 24:14; Deut. 4:30; and 31:29. The whole of this prophecy from the dying Jacob, is pertinent to Daniel’s prophecy; particularly V.24; which reveals the origin of “the Stone of Israel”! That “Stone” is the one mentioned in Dan. 2:25, 35 and 45; and He is the “Christ” of God, the Saviour of Christians; and the Messiah of Israel and prophecy!
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel then commenced to give the dream the King had received, a great image of a man, Dan. 2:32-33:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]1) A head of gold. (Babylonia)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]2) Chest and arms of silver. (Medo-Persia)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]3) Belly and thighs of bronze. (Greece)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]4) Legs of iron. (Rome)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]5) Feet part iron and clay (Probably Rev Chapter 13[/SIZE])
[SIZE=16pt]Verse 2:34 shows the King observing as “a stone was cut without hands” (an act of God alone), which struck the feet, “and crushed them in pieces”![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Dan. 2:35 shows “the stone” apparently striking the image in the order of 4,5,3,2,1, above. The stone then “became a great mountain and filled the whole earth”! However; V.34 clearly states that the “feet of iron and clay” were struck first! The apparent anomaly of the different order of “crushing” in V.45; in all probability does not exist, because we are told in V.35 that the areas of the Kingdoms are “crushed together”; which probably means at the same time![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel then explained to Nebuchadnezzar that he was “that head of Gold”, and that the metals below him would be inferior Kingdoms which would subsume his, in the same land area, (this is considered the “prophetic area”); until the “feet and toes” would be the most unstable (mix of iron and clay, the toes representing ten Kings Vs 43-44).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The feet of iron and clay #5 above, has not yet existed. That it will have initially 10 Kings, and is at the lower extremities of the legs; #4 above, indicates that it is the extremities of the Roman Empire, and is made up of those countries that were at the end of the power of Rome, and at the southern or lower end of the legs. Those countries coincide with the listings given in Scripture, see: Confederation of 10 Nations[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]It is interesting to note that in Dan. 2:45, the order of Empires is not the same as v35. This probably because “the stone” (Christ Jesus Messiah) deals with those areas which will again have power in the order given; 4,3,5,2,1; so as to be most effective with the degrees of power then exerted; and to have maximum and expeditious effect. The fact that in V.45 the “clay” is in the middle of the image, may well represent is infiltration into the whole body of the image, and the countries and land areas that each represents. That would mean that the “clay” had spread westwards including Greece, Rome in its old boundaries; east to old Persia (Iran) and beyond; north to Babylonia (Iraq) and the Caucuses etc. These are apparently limits of the old Empire, and the “Prophetic area”![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]“The stone” is of course as mentioned Christ Jesus Messiah, at His second Advent, dealing with the whole world, not just the old “prophetic area”![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]What has happened to DD?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Floyd.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Occasionally a comment is made regarding the differences in the order of the Kingdoms of the above two verses. Most people however read them and do not question, or see the differences especially in early Bible study.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Chapter two of Daniel’s book, concerns the dream which was had by King Nebuchadnezzar, which troubled him to the extent that he could not sleep.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]He summoned to his presence his “magicians, astrologers, and sorcerers”; who were commanded to give the interpretation of the dream which he had dreamed![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]They asked the King to give the dream to them, so that they could give him the meaning. The King refused, stating that they should know the dream, and that would convince him that they could give the true interpretation![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]When they could not, the King ordered that they all be put to death, which was underway, when the executioners came to Daniel. Daniel requested an audience with the King, which was granted; and he requested a small time, so that he would be able to tell the King both the dream and its meaning.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel and his companions prayed to God; and the secret was revealed to Daniel in a “night vision”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel prayed to God with thanks and praise for the revelations, which is incorporated in Dan. 2:20-23.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]He then went to Arioch the King’s Captain, appointed to execute all Babylon’s wise men, asking him not to continue the executions, as he had the dream and its interpretation for the King to hear.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel was immediately granted presence to the King who requested confirmation of the statement by Arioch. Daniel confirmed that he was able to tell the King what his dream was, and after witnessing to the “God of Heaven”, Who was able to give and reveal “secrets”; and that He had “made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what would be in the latter days”[/SIZE]. These “latter days correspond to Gen. 49:1; Num. 24:14; Deut. 4:30; and 31:29. The whole of this prophecy from the dying Jacob, is pertinent to Daniel’s prophecy; particularly V.24; which reveals the origin of “the Stone of Israel”! That “Stone” is the one mentioned in Dan. 2:25, 35 and 45; and He is the “Christ” of God, the Saviour of Christians; and the Messiah of Israel and prophecy!
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel then commenced to give the dream the King had received, a great image of a man, Dan. 2:32-33:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]1) A head of gold. (Babylonia)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]2) Chest and arms of silver. (Medo-Persia)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]3) Belly and thighs of bronze. (Greece)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]4) Legs of iron. (Rome)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]5) Feet part iron and clay (Probably Rev Chapter 13[/SIZE])
[SIZE=16pt]Verse 2:34 shows the King observing as “a stone was cut without hands” (an act of God alone), which struck the feet, “and crushed them in pieces”![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Dan. 2:35 shows “the stone” apparently striking the image in the order of 4,5,3,2,1, above. The stone then “became a great mountain and filled the whole earth”! However; V.34 clearly states that the “feet of iron and clay” were struck first! The apparent anomaly of the different order of “crushing” in V.45; in all probability does not exist, because we are told in V.35 that the areas of the Kingdoms are “crushed together”; which probably means at the same time![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Daniel then explained to Nebuchadnezzar that he was “that head of Gold”, and that the metals below him would be inferior Kingdoms which would subsume his, in the same land area, (this is considered the “prophetic area”); until the “feet and toes” would be the most unstable (mix of iron and clay, the toes representing ten Kings Vs 43-44).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The feet of iron and clay #5 above, has not yet existed. That it will have initially 10 Kings, and is at the lower extremities of the legs; #4 above, indicates that it is the extremities of the Roman Empire, and is made up of those countries that were at the end of the power of Rome, and at the southern or lower end of the legs. Those countries coincide with the listings given in Scripture, see: Confederation of 10 Nations[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]It is interesting to note that in Dan. 2:45, the order of Empires is not the same as v35. This probably because “the stone” (Christ Jesus Messiah) deals with those areas which will again have power in the order given; 4,3,5,2,1; so as to be most effective with the degrees of power then exerted; and to have maximum and expeditious effect. The fact that in V.45 the “clay” is in the middle of the image, may well represent is infiltration into the whole body of the image, and the countries and land areas that each represents. That would mean that the “clay” had spread westwards including Greece, Rome in its old boundaries; east to old Persia (Iran) and beyond; north to Babylonia (Iraq) and the Caucuses etc. These are apparently limits of the old Empire, and the “Prophetic area”![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]“The stone” is of course as mentioned Christ Jesus Messiah, at His second Advent, dealing with the whole world, not just the old “prophetic area”![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]What has happened to DD?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Floyd.[/SIZE]
Thank you for your response and caring again!
Rev.2:45: With all the pre-1900s Commentaries I access, with strange unanimity it's stated by all that the "Stone", ebhen, signifies the Kingdom of the Godman Christ, eg, Farrar, Montgomry, Keil-Deilizch, and my older Sermons in German slong with others. btw I normally agree to disagree with the former regarding their Premil. position.
The correctness of the details of this interpretaton will be further substantiated when the parallel chapters, viz., 7 & 8, of this book are examined a little more closely brother Floyd.
Old Jack
Rev.2:45: With all the pre-1900s Commentaries I access, with strange unanimity it's stated by all that the "Stone", ebhen, signifies the Kingdom of the Godman Christ, eg, Farrar, Montgomry, Keil-Deilizch, and my older Sermons in German slong with others. btw I normally agree to disagree with the former regarding their Premil. position.
The correctness of the details of this interpretaton will be further substantiated when the parallel chapters, viz., 7 & 8, of this book are examined a little more closely brother Floyd.
Old Jack
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