Please stay away from the pope!!!

[Rach1370]

I can't assume to know which is which ? how is that.

Unless you are all knowing, then you can't know if some one's opinion comes from ignorance or from what they have researched. You simply cannot, as you are not God. If you know someone quite well, then you may know what is behind their opinion...but I doubt that you know anyone on this board well enough to make that call.

I have the bloody doctrine at hand of the RCC. but i think you do not and are just pushing what you have been lead to believe. as i have said i was a protestant, so i do know.

Does the language really help?? You know it's not permitted here, and really doesn't do anything to help your point...in fact if anything, it only hurts your case. It also perhaps distracts from the fact that you are guessing that I have not looked into Catholic doctrine. And that's all it is...a guess. There is, admittedly, much Catholic doctrine I haven't dug into, but on the subjects I've been speaking about...those, I have researched on...and not just on wikipedia...from Catholic sites. Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me ignorant. It doesn't necessarily make any Protestant ignorant. Many Protestants were raised Catholic, and so would know the doctrines quite well, and yet they left the RCC and disagree with you. So ignorance doesn't always = differences with the RCC

And i would not of known jack if i did not seek into the truth, now would i.

I have no argument here...it is always better to know what you're talking about. But your assumption is that others have not sought the truth as well.

If i stayed as a protestant i would of been just one of the people choked, like in the story of the parable of the sower. as i see many of my friends are stuck and can not grow in strength in the Lord and just fall away, lead by the tempting of Satan.

So you are saying that if one seeks the truth and does some actual digging, one must come to the conclusion that the RCC is right, and Protestantism is wrong? Wow...that's an interesting perspective. Faulty...but interesting. I would say that in equal doses there are those 'being choked' in both Catholic and Protestant circles. But also in both are genuine loving Christians. It's not so much a question of which denomination, I believe, but those who truly hear the call and give themselves wholly to Jesus...and follow Him through thick and thin. Both denominations have faulty doctrines, which don't help...but in the end it really comes down to the people, and to whom the Spirit chooses.

 

[lawrance]

Gee if no one can tell that one is ignorant, is that new age stuff ?

Most RC do not know there doctrine much at all but only just the simple stuff and wonder in to other denominations due to Satan having sway in there lives.

More like growing in Christ and only in him is the way, step by step day by day.

I found the protestant doctrines fall well behind the RCC and the protestants are trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

 

[Warrior]

Lets not make this a Catholic protastant war or judging. I am not judging the pope, That is God's Job, but the pope thinks of himself as a leader who needs to be "Honored" And have you seen the pope's "Throne" He sits on in the vatican? Don't follow the pope, Follow Jesus Christ.

 

[aspen]

Lets not make this a Catholic protastant war or judging. I am not judging the pope, That is God's Job, but the pope thinks of himself as a leader who needs to be "Honored" And have you seen the pope's "Throne" He sits on in the vatican? Don't follow the pope, Follow Jesus Christ.

No one is following the Pope, Warrior.

 

[Warrior]

No one is following the Pope, Warrior.

The people in rome are following him. They bow to the pope and it is an ABOMINATION

 

[neophyte]

In one of your above non-Catholic posts,one [ Rach ,i believe] of you wrote:" Many Protestants were raised Catholic, and so would know the doctrines quite well, and yet they left the RCC and disagree with you. So ignorance doesn't always = differences with the RCC"
I disagree,because if those Catholics really understood those God derived doctrines then they would have never left His Apostolic Church of the Bible.

a few Bible verses that I've read reminds me that Jesus commanded His first ambassadors [ presbyters/priests , apostle/ pope ]to be sent out and teach His Teachings ;-
Matt. 28:18-20, and " On behalf of Christ, therefore, we are acting as ambassadors, God, as it were, appealing through us" [ 2 Cor. 5 v 20 ]

"Every high priest taken from among men is appointed for men in the things pertaining to God, that he may offer gifts and sacrifices for sins [ Hebrews 5 v 1 }

We see where the Apostles ordained priests ie Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Titus and Matthias - see Acts 13 v 3 , 14 v 22, 1: 24-26 and Titus 1 v 5 .

" Then, having fasted and prayed and laid hands on them, they let go " [ Acts 13 v 3. ]

The authority for priests, popes comes from Luke 22 v 19, Luke 10 v 16.

Only a "Bishop" can give the Sacrament of Holy Orders ,as found in Titus 1 v 5 - For this reason I left Crete, that thou shouldst set aright anything that is defective and shouldst appoint prespyters in every city, as I myself directed thee to do ".

" Do not lay hands hastily upon anyone " [ 1 Tim. 5 v 22 ].

Pope- the bishop of Rome, vicar of Christ on earth, successor of St. Peter, visable head of the whole earthly/ universal Church until Jesus returns, as Jesus is the Real Teacher and it was Jesus alone that instituted a substitute teacher for His Church. Jesus the Real Shepherd never would leave His earthly sheep without a shepherd, until Jesus, the Real Shepherd returns.

 

[aspen]

The people in rome are following him. They bow to the pope and it is an ABOMINATION

You mean Catholics, like me? Do you really believe people are worshiping the Pope when they show his office respect? Do you think Asian people are worshiping each other when they bow? Com'mon.....

The only people who are confused about worshiping and bowing are Christian literalists.

Hope you never called your teacher, teacher or your father, father. Hope you never referred to a temp coworker as an employee or a substitute teacher as teacher because they were just standing in for the real employee and teacher - gee sort of like the Pope......hmm. no wonder we do not call him Jesus.

Fact is, we are all called to stand in the place of Jesus as a witness of His love to the world. Rather than condemning the Pope over a title, pehaps you should work on standing in the place of Jesus until He returns.

 

[Warrior]

You mean Catholics, like me? Do you really believe people are worshiping the Pope when they show his office respect? Do you think Asian people are worshiping each other when they bow? Com'mon.....

The only people who are confused about worshiping and bowing are Christian literalists.

You are lost here. I am not going to judge, but When people bow to the pope and So called" Honor " him that is not good at all. The pope thinks we arent going to notice. Look up what idolatry means, then look up the pope being bowed to AN ABOMANATION and not to mention the pope sits on a throne. ONLY THE LORD GOD HAS A THRONE.

Look in the bible Exodus 20:3 - It clearly states we shall have NO other gods before The Lord God Himself.
Exodus 20:4"You shall not make for yourself a carved image - any likeness of anything that is in Heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Exodus 20:5 - you shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God.

Look at what God says Himself, and yet People in the vatican are Bowing down to an earthly man ( pope ) who carves himself as heavenly image. Open your eyes and Keep Jesus!! Not man

 

[aspen]

You are lost here. I am not going to judge, but When people bow to the pope and So called" Honor " him that is not good at all. The pope thinks we arent going to notice. Look up what idolatry means, then look up the pope being bowed to AN ABOMANATION and not to mention the pope sits on a throne. ONLY THE LORD GOD HAS A THRONE.

Look in the bible Exodus 20:3 - It clearly states we shall have NO other gods before The Lord God Himself.
Exodus 20:4"You shall not make for yourself a carved image - any likeness of anything that is in Heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Exodus 20:5 - you shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God.

Look at what God says Himself, and yet People in the vatican are Bowing down to an earthly man ( pope ) who carves himself as heavenly image. Open your eyes and Keep Jesus!! Not man

Do you really believe I have not looked up idolatry? Do you pray in front of a cross or the alter when you bow your head in church as you pray? Are you committing idolatry?

Catholics are honoring the office of the Pope, not the man. The man is a sinner, just like all of us. The office of Pope was set up by Jesus - you might want to look up Matt 16.

Again, we are all supposed to be standing in the place of Christ as a witness of His love, until He returns - we are called to be 'little Christs'

By the way, how are you not making a judgment about me?

 

[Warrior]

Do you really believe I have not looked up idolatry? Do you pray in front of a cross or the alter when you bow your head in church as you pray? Are you committing idolatry?

Catholics are honoring the office of the Pope, not the man. The man is a sinner, just like all of us. The office of Pope was set up by Jesus - you might want to look up Matt 16.

Again, we are all supposed to be standing in the place of Christ as a witness of His love, until He returns - we are called to be 'little Christs'

By the way, how are you not making a judgment about me?

No, I am not judging you. It is God's job. I don't know your heart like God does, but The pope is CLEARLY endorsing sin. Whoever bows down to another earthly man is a sinner. We should bow to Jesus Only. When I pray, yes I am on my knees, I don't pray to a cross. I pray to the one and only Christ the Savior in My Heart. I dont judge, but it is just a fact that what they are doing with the pope in rome is clearly a sin........Lets not argue, just focus on Jesus Christ.

 

[aspen]

No, I am not judging you. It is God's job. I don't know your heart like God does, but The pope is CLEARLY endorsing sin. Whoever bows down to another earthly man is a sinner. We should bow to Jesus Only. When I pray, yes I am on my knees, I don't pray to a cross. I pray to the one and only Christ the Savior in My Heart. I dont judge, but it is just a fact that what they are doing with the pope in rome is clearly a sin........Lets not argue, just focus on Jesus Christ.

You are making a judgment about me when you condemn the teachings of my church - I am not mad, I am just stating a truth. And it does not say do not bow down to an Earthly man - the verses condemning idolatry include bowing down to statues.

I am concerned because I do not believe you understand the teachings of the church you are condemning. Also, if you are truly interested in focusing on Jesus, you need to admit that this thread you started is an invitation to argue, which has become a distraction.

Catholic doctrine and Protestant doctrines really disagree in some areas - I think Protestant charges against Catholics for bowing down and repetitious prayer are manufactured / based in ignorance / unfounded.

 

[Rach1370]

Gee if no one can tell that one is ignorant, is that new age stuff ?

New age?? No...I'm not new age...at all.

Most RC do not know there doctrine much at all but only just the simple stuff and wonder in to other denominations due to Satan having sway in there lives.

You are still assuming that any opinion other than RCC is erroneous. That is not true. Many people, both Catholic and Protestant believe and follow Jesus. If the RCC fits you better and helps you walk towards Jesus, great. But for many others, it is Protestant denominations that do that. For you to state that anyone not in the RCC is being lead astray by Satan, is ignorance, assumption, and just plain wrong. You cannot have any idea of how or where Jesus is leading others. You cannot possibly know my life, my relationship with Jesus, how or what I think or live. You cannot know when I repent and grow, what Jesus uses to speak to me...anything. And then ditto that for everyone else!

In one of your above non-Catholic posts,one [ Rach ,i believe] of you wrote:" Many Protestants were raised Catholic, and so would know the doctrines quite well, and yet they left the RCC and disagree with you. So ignorance doesn't always = differences with the RCC"
I disagree,because if those Catholics really understood those God derived doctrines then they would have never left His Apostolic Church of the Bible.

Opinion, and one that does not reflect reality. There are people here on this board who were raised Catholic...who once they did understand the doctrines, turned Protestant. I know of many others too. But, as I have said repeatedly, being either Catholic or Protestant doesn't exclude you from being a bible believing Christian. I believe Catholic doctrine is faulty in places, but I also acknowledge that some Protestant doctrine is faulty as well. The real error lies in saying that one denomination or the other is entirely wrong, and those who follow it cannot be Christian.
My point above was this...yes, there are those like MrR who were Protestant who became Catholic...and there are those who were Catholic and became Protestant. We should not assume that just because some differ in opinion in regards to 'denomination', that this means they are wrong, unsaved and ignorant. It comes down to Jesus, who follows Him, who loves Him...and I have no doubt that many Catholics are believing Christians who love and follow Jesus. And I certainly know that many Protestants are as well. This is not changed by me saying I disagree with the position of the Pope, or you saying that many Protestant denomination's position on homosexuals in the Church is wrong (which it absolutely is). Disagreeing with doctrine is both inevitable and important...but it should never be an excuse to label others false and unsaved, at least in general...deeper information and knowledge may very well lead to that conclusion...but nothing being discussed on this thread warrants that. Discussing and disagreeing on doctrine is one thing, insulting and labelling is another, which is what I believe MrR is doing.

 

[aspen]

You make a lot of sense to me, Rach.

 

[Rach1370]

You make a lot of sense to me, Rach.

Well...I'm trying! It's ridiculous to say Catholics cannot be Christian, because I know some who are. And it's also ridiculous to say Protestants cannot be Christian, for the same reason. It is evident that within these people's lives there is something greater that has saved them and is now guiding them. Jesus can be the only answer. So yes, while there will be debates over doctrine, it's petty supposition at best to lay claim to a person being unsaved only due to their denomination.

 

[neophyte]

Rach, please forgive me if you think that I said"all" Protestants are not saved , no where does the pope say this, nor does the Catholic Church teach this as a" doctrine".I believe that some Catholics along with some Protestants together are not saved.Only Jesus/God really knows who are not saved.
If one verse helped me to understand that the only Church that Jesus founded existed back then not invented 15 hundred years later by many conlicting minds of mere men.This is that verse [ Matt. 18: 15-18 . Now if Jesus only gave us One Church why then follow any other? Also that One Church was under the perpetually promise of Jesus to protect His One True Church along with all of its 'doctrines' [ Matt.16: 15-19]. Now, from what i read and comphehend from the Holy Bible is that Jesus formed His only Church on His apostles, not on any future men with their individual" churches".The only Church that is based on Apostolic Teaching along with Holy Scripture is the Catholic Church and also later the EOC, both are of apostolic origin and both follow the same doctrine. Furthermore the Holy Bible tells us that it is the Church [ Christ's Apostolic Church because Jesus only founded 'one' church ] is the place that we find 'all' Truth [ 1 Tim. 3: 15 ] and it has the final authority on matters of all Christian faith [ Matt.18: 17-18 ] Jesus introduced and commands us to preserve the following- One Lord, one faith, one Baptism, one God and Father of all [ Eph. 4: 3-6 ] only found in that Apostolic Church that Jesus left for "all" of us. If a former Catholic says that he/she understood the Catholic Church especially the Eucharist and still left the Church, then that person was never truly a Catholic.One must understand Christ's Church along with "all" of Her Teachings. [ I address Christ's Church as being of the famine gender because Jesus is the Spouse of His Church. And Jesus never divorced His Church to remarry many times other different conflicting churches ] So the question I ask any Christian brother or sister is why would they want to belong to any other church that was invented by men or women ? Jesus told His apostles/successors the following found in these verses " Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven " [ Matt. 16:19 ]

" That all may be one, even as thou, Father, in me and I in thee, that they also may be one in us " [John 17 v 21 ]

This verse proves all authority was given to His apostles, the nucleus of Christ's Apostolic/ Universal derived from the Greek word meaning Catholic Church [ Luke 10 v 16 ]

 

[lawrance]

New age?? No...I'm not new age...at all.



You are still assuming that any opinion other than RCC is erroneous. That is not true. Many people, both Catholic and Protestant believe and follow Jesus. If the RCC fits you better and helps you walk towards Jesus, great. But for many others, it is Protestant denominations that do that. For you to state that anyone not in the RCC is being lead astray by Satan, is ignorance, assumption, and just plain wrong. You cannot have any idea of how or where Jesus is leading others. You cannot possibly know my life, my relationship with Jesus, how or what I think or live. You cannot know when I repent and grow, what Jesus uses to speak to me...anything. And then ditto that for everyone else!



Opinion, and one that does not reflect reality. There are people here on this board who were raised Catholic...who once they did understand the doctrines, turned Protestant. I know of many others too. But, as I have said repeatedly, being either Catholic or Protestant doesn't exclude you from being a bible believing Christian. I believe Catholic doctrine is faulty in places, but I also acknowledge that some Protestant doctrine is faulty as well. The real error lies in saying that one denomination or the other is entirely wrong, and those who follow it cannot be Christian.
My point above was this...yes, there are those like MrR who were Protestant who became Catholic...and there are those who were Catholic and became Protestant. We should not assume that just because some differ in opinion in regards to 'denomination', that this means they are wrong, unsaved and ignorant. It comes down to Jesus, who follows Him, who loves Him...and I have no doubt that many Catholics are believing Christians who love and follow Jesus. And I certainly know that many Protestants are as well. This is not changed by me saying I disagree with the position of the Pope, or you saying that many Protestant denomination's position on homosexuals in the Church is wrong (which it absolutely is). Disagreeing with doctrine is both inevitable and important...but it should never be an excuse to label others false and unsaved, at least in general...deeper information and knowledge may very well lead to that conclusion...but nothing being discussed on this thread warrants that. Discussing and disagreeing on doctrine is one thing, insulting and labelling is another, which is what I believe MrR is doing.

I am not a RC Rach. and i can't be a protestant anymore because i do not protest.
I see it this way, all protestants are catholic but just protesting ones, but it's this protesting we are on about ? and when we grow as all people should be encouraged to, we can find truth.

I once went to attack the RCC as a protestant, but found out i was wrong and it took me some years to even say the word Catholic to other people, as i know how they think, but i know they have no idea of where i am coming from now. and i have moved onwards and i feel fantastic in my self and i would like others to come into Christ, so to speak. not just swallowing some rat bag so called men of this worlds jibba jabba, saying we will show you how to be saved the easy way.

 

[Caffus]

Catholics are not supposed to worship anyone but God...just like protestents....it is not in catholic doctrine to worship anyone but God. I was protestent..then I was Wiccan , then I was Catholic and now I'm just a general Christian who doesnt think anyone on earth knows all Gods truth..of course including myself. The Bible is very difficult to interperate which is why there is SO many differant beliefs all comming from the SAME book all claiming to be BIBLICAL. The catholic Chruch wants its memebers to be in unityin doctrine and belief...that is why they have one leader The Pope. How many differant doctrines are in the protestent side of Gods body??? Probably millions! Also..you are right some Catholics probably are worshiping the Pope....unknowingly...just as some protestents worship Christian music artist and leaders at times. ..with out relizing it. We are to help and love eachother as the body of Christ and to love unbelivers as well.

 

[aspen]

Catholics are not supposed to worship anyone but God...just like protestents....it is not in catholic doctrine to worship anyone but God. I was protestent..then I was Wiccan , then I was Catholic and now I'm just a general Christian who doesnt think anyone on earth knows all Gods truth..of course including myself. The Bible is very difficult to interperate which is why there is SO many differant beliefs all comming from the SAME book all claiming to be BIBLICAL. The catholic Chruch wants its memebers to be in unityin doctrine and belief...that is why they have one leader The Pope. How many differant doctrines are in the protestent side of Gods body??? Probably millions! Also..you are right some Catholics probably are worshiping the Pope....unknowingly...just as some protestents worship Christian music artist and leaders at times. ..with out relizing it. We are to help and love eachother as the body of Christ and to love unbelivers as well.

I agree.

 

[Rach1370]

I am not a RC Rach. and i can't be a protestant anymore because i do not protest.
I see it this way, all protestants are catholic but just protesting ones, but it's this protesting we are on about ? and when we grow as all people should be encouraged to, we can find truth.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought from what you had said that you were now Catholic..sorry! We are probably more on the same page then we think, then. I don't necessarily consider myself 'Protestant' either...just Christian and bible believing. I easily acknowledge that there are many faulty doctrines in both denominations...no one and nothing is exempt from making those mistakes. I believe that it is foolish to place all your beliefs in, for example, a 'baptist' basket, just because you're baptist. If you go to a baptist church, fine...but you wade through what they teach and support and compare it all to the Bible. Same goes for any denomination, both Catholic and Protestants.

I once went to attack the RCC as a protestant, but found out i was wrong and it took me some years to even say the word Catholic to other people, as i know how they think, but i know they have no idea of where i am coming from now. and i have moved onwards and i feel fantastic in my self and i would like others to come into Christ, so to speak. not just swallowing some rat bag so called men of this worlds jibba jabba, saying we will show you how to be saved the easy way.

Agreed. Following man made doctrines is foolish. It's about Jesus, not denomination. I don't think denominations are bad...but one must be careful to attend a church that teaches the bible, not that church's particular doctrines.

 

[Caffus]

CB Deacon....all the Christian Churches claim to get all there differant doctrines FROM THE BIBLE, even though they CAN NOT all be true.

I think I would still agree with catholic doctrien more than one of the millions of diferant protestant doctrines. Just makes more sense to me that it would more likely be correct. The doctrine of Hell....I dont think I'll ever understand in this life and I hope it is not true that there is eternal punishment. Punishment I would think should be done in love to effect a change and redeem a person, like in purgatory. I know the Catholic doctrine also teaches eternal hell.....but I just dont understand the piont...so I cant really claim to be Catholic, I'm also not very religouse.....but I do try and pray and comunacate with God all day.