Is the Pope Catholic or is He Christian ?Listen hear me out Siblings. There are many false prophets on this earth, and the pope is the biggest one. He has so many people fooled. They bow down to the pope and they "Honor" him, but they really are worshipping him and they dont know it. I once had a dream about the pope. He was coming out of his little window with a sniper rifle, Snatching away Christians with his sniper rifle. Please listen to me. The pope is a false prophet, and he is leading people to think he is important. He is not supossed to have people bow down to him . Jesus Christ is the only one !!!
Please stay away from the pope!!!
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aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
If you are not a Catholic you are not a Christian end of story, as protestants are Catholic to you know, as are Orthodox.
'general universal apostolic church' = Catholic. that is what the word Catholic means.
Generally speaking it is universal and apostolic and a body of people who aspire to this = church.
It is universal in that it is not limited to a country etc.
Apostolic as in relating to the apostles as well.
Denominations come from people, and people are faulty and sinful, so no, not all can be correct. But as people, Christians, we need to be careful in reading our bibles and praying. We need to trust the Spirit to lead us to where He wants us in this life. And we must do our best with the understanding we have, to attend a church who we believe preaches the closest truth to scripture. Naturally this will lead people to different Churches, as well all have different opinions, and you know, I actually think that God has a purpose behind much of this. Each Church and denomination has its strengths and weaknesses. In the Reformation, the RCC was forced to address a lot of it's weaknesses, and thus grew to be a more biblical Church. For the Protestant Churches we are too eager to accept 'new' ideas, where as the RCC seems to be able to hold, and encourage us to stay true...like not accepting gay clergy.
There will always be faulty doctrine, wherever we turn, but that doesn't mean we must accept it, or walk away from it. We turn to the Bible and test everything against God's word, working to bring people and 'the Church' back to the truth.
I think you must understand that many 'off shoots' of Protestantism are actually considered cults. And yes, they have many, many faulty doctrines. But so many 'Protestant' Churches are very true to scripture. The RCC is not evil, as many would say. Many of their doctrines are godly and biblical. But they too have ideas that are not found in scripture...they come from tradition and an imposed need for 'rules'. The idea of purgatory is one I cannot agree to, for the simple reason that it teaches that Jesus' work on the cross was not enough to deal with sin, once and for all. It teaches the need for us to 'work off' our sins, and that is not biblical. I don't love the idea of hell, of people suffering, but I trust God, I know Him to be loving and fair. So I will leave it to Him, realising how great a price He paid for those sins, knowing that only He has the right to make such decisions.
And I think it's great you're not 'religious'! Religion drags us down in rules and hypocrisy. Only Jesus saves, and we must live to be like Him, not the Pharisees!
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Rach,
I do not think of Protestant denominations as cults. We are still part of the Christian body.
If you are able to be vulnerable to be loved by God and reflect His love to your neighbor - you are a Christian. Vulnerability requires experiencing God's love, referred to as justification.
You are certainly an adopted child of God - bless you sister!
Pray for the salvation of humanity!!
I do not think of Protestant denominations as cults. We are still part of the Christian body.
If you are able to be vulnerable to be loved by God and reflect His love to your neighbor - you are a Christian. Vulnerability requires experiencing God's love, referred to as justification.
You are certainly an adopted child of God - bless you sister!
Pray for the salvation of humanity!!
I wasn't saying Protestant denominations were cults! Far from it! I'm saying that many of the cults we see today branched off from Protestantism. The most recognized of these would be Mormonism, which came about in the 1820's and the Jehovah's Witnesses which began emerging in the 1870's. These came to be long after the Reformation which began in 1517, and both of them began in Protestant circles. That is all I meant by the comment. There are many other 'churches' that may fit into what others believe as 'Protestantism' because of there roots within it, but are now clearly cults. My point was that we shouldn't make the mistake of assuming that the doctrines of these cults should be labelled as 'Protestant' doctrines. Orthodox Protestantism, I believe, is very bible believing. We may find some faulty doctrines that sneak in here and there, just as in the RCC, but in general, they teach the basic tenants of our faith; Jesus, the Trinity...etc.
I would probably want to clarify this a lot more. Yes, Christians, true Christians will find love the centre of everything, because this is what Jesus teaches and offers Himself. But just because someone loves doesn't make them saved. Only Jesus saves, only belief and trust in Him. So yes, A Christian will love his neighbour. But just because someone loves his neighbour, doesn't make him saved. It's a fairly important distinction, I think!
And I don't know that I really understand what point you're trying to make with the vulnerability. Being loved by God doesn't necessitate us being vulnerable, it should make us free and strong! But, please, tell me what you mean, because I fear I'm not understanding you very well!
Amen.
"The Lord is not slow to fulfil his promise as some count slowness, but is patient towards you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." -2 Peter 3:9
We must remember that every day that passes us by, no matter how weary we are or how much we long to go 'home', that it is another day that Jesus brings more souls to himself. I do not believe in universal reconciliation, but I do believe that God is patiently giving every person a chance to turn towards Him. He loves us all, and we must pray like He does, wanting the salvation of all.
Rach, you wrote in your post: "We may find some faulty doctrines that sneak in here and there, just as in the RCC, but in general, they teach the basic tenants of our faith; Jesus, the Trinity...etc.
Would you care to point out any Catholic doctrine that you believe is ''faulty" as you claim ?
Would you care to point out any Catholic doctrine that you believe is ''faulty" as you claim ?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Hmm....
Thanks for clarifying.
You are right about post-protestant movements like JW and Mormonism.
My dividing line between Christian and nonchristian doctrine is the teaching of the correct nature of God as a Trinity.
As far as your emphasis on correct doctrine - I guess my emphasis is on the justification and sanctification of the heart. Learning to love, simply because we have experienced God's love is the whole point of Christianity. Without love, correct doctrine means nothing.
Furthermore, I am a bit concerned about your comments regarding Catholicism......
As I've said before, a big problem I have with the RCC is how they seem to place significant emphasis on our own 'payment' of sin. Purgatory, penance. The Bible simply does not teach this doctrine. Jesus took ALL our sins, that one time on the cross. There is nothing we can or could do to pay for our sins, past, present, future. Sure, the bible teaches we need to live godly lives, but we do that through the power of the Holy Spirit, whom we receive after our sins have been paid for by Christ.
I believe correct doctrine is important. We are told in scripture that faulty doctrine is truly dangerous, so we must assume that having correct views about what the bible teaches is essential. Of course there are both closed and open hand issues, which does make a difference. Erroneous doctrine in open hand issues can be dicey, but not threatening to one's salvation. Getting doctrine wrong on closed hand issues, like the Trinity and Jesus' humanity and divinity, can be more than dangerous.
I think that love is a biblical issue that will take a person a lifetime to understand and execute even somewhat perfectly. There seems so much more to the love Jesus has and shows to others than we seem capable of at times. Jesus loves while he cares, loves while he teaches, loves while he rebukes, loves as he suffers and dies. And he will love even as he comes back in perfect righteousness and judgement. A lot to learn there!!
As far as my comments regarding Catholicism...which ones in general concerned you? I must confess it tickles me just a bit. I'm probably one of the ones here who has the least...um...'hate on' for the RCC, and yet people seem to think I'm out to get it! Yes, I believe that the RCC has some issues...has some faulty doctrines. But I also said that I believe the same of the Protestant denominations. And I can say both confidently, even though as a human, I too am faulty. I can say it because both the RCC and the Protestant denominations, while under Jesus, who is the head of the 'Church', are lead, put together and guided by people....people who are sinful and makes mistakes. No one should try and claim that their church is perfect. That everything that comes out of it is perfect. It simply is not so...and as long as it has fallen people within it, teaching through it, etc, it will not be perfect. So, I am sorry if my comments concerned you, but I fully believe everything I have said. I believe the Bible is the only reliable and perfect source, and I truly see that some of the things the RCC believe, are just not found it in. But I say exactly the same of my own 'religion'...there are many things I believe we get wrong to. I have a big problem with the 'prosperity gospel', and needless to say, allowing homosexuals to take the pulpit is wrong also.
When it comes down to it, I know no matter what I say will end up offending people. And I'm sorry for it, I'm not one of those people who say things just to get a bite. But my concern always has to be whether I'm offending God. I want to speak His truth, and I believe His truth to be this: whether I'm talking of purgatory or the prosperity gospel...anything that teaches a Jesus + something else gospel, is wrong. Jesus...just Him...is enough for us. And beyond that, it shouldn't matter what denomination we're talking about.
Yeah..the pope is not the true teaching if you believe in what the protestant religion teachings about faith and how to worship to yourself.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Yeah - that damn Pope.....
Sitting in the Vatican, praying for the world
Directing the faithful to God.......
What a bastard
Sitting in the Vatican, praying for the world
Directing the faithful to God.......
What a bastard
Perhaps he needs to pray 'closer to home'. There is a lot of problems in his 'house'. Now, I don't know the pope, he may be a lovely Christian man who truly believes in what he is doing. I am free to disagree with the position of pope without needing to hate him. It has nothing to do with the man, or how he prays. It has to do with the RCC setting up a position that exults one man over every other man. It God had wanted us to still have a 'high priest', Jesus would not have needed to come. In fact, we are told that Jesus is now our High Priest. The pope is often called 'his holiness', and to me, that is just wrong...Jesus is the only true holy person. And also, I believe too many RC people place to much regard and awe, almost worship, to this man, this office. It doesn't matter what the RCC's intention is for the role, this happens...it's idolatry.
So yes, my concerns about the position are many and heavy...and I do worry that the men who step into the position have all along their 'career' of Catholic Priest, have supported the doctrines and position of Pope. It's not an irrational dislike of Catholicism or thinking that the Pope is antichrist! It's a biblical concern that a man is being placed where Jesus should be...a position that is being bowed to, rather than what Jesus has revealed to us...the Holy Spirit lives with us, we need no 'representative' to go before God.
So yes, my concerns about the position are many and heavy...and I do worry that the men who step into the position have all along their 'career' of Catholic Priest, have supported the doctrines and position of Pope. It's not an irrational dislike of Catholicism or thinking that the Pope is antichrist! It's a biblical concern that a man is being placed where Jesus should be...a position that is being bowed to, rather than what Jesus has revealed to us...the Holy Spirit lives with us, we need no 'representative' to go before God.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Yes, the Catholic Church has problems - like all churches do. I have no doubt the Pope is praying for the church. Catholics do it during every Mass.
Would any of you non-Catholics please point out from the bible where Jesus said His Church would be perfect?
Rach, you do know that Jesus did tell us that His Church would contain "good and bad" members, don't you? This tension of there being "good " and "bad" members of the Church is one foretold by Jesus in [ Matt. 13:24- 30.; John 16:12-13] and that not all members of His one Church would go to heaven [ Matt. 7: 21-23 ]
The only church to ever receive the Holy Spirit was His Church and that was at Pentecost 1st. century.
His apostles are the nucleus of His Church along with their future successors. Jesus' Church is called catholic [ "universal" in Greek ] because it is God's gift to all the worlds people.Jesus told His apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations " [ Matt 28: 19-20 ] .
Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, [ I hope you don't think that Jesus only taught His apostles for the 1st century christians alone ] along with their successors, the popes and the bishops," He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me " [ Luke 10:16 ] along with the power and authority to forgive sins [ John 20: 23 ] and [ 1st Tim. 2: 3-4 ] Jesus promised to protect His only apostolic Church [ Matt.16: 15-19 ] and to always guide His Church into all truths [ John 16:12-13 ]. We can be confident that His Church teaches the truth of Jesus.[ 1st. Timothy 3:14 ],
Why do you reject the only Church that Jesus left for "all" of us ???
Rach, you do know that Jesus did tell us that His Church would contain "good and bad" members, don't you? This tension of there being "good " and "bad" members of the Church is one foretold by Jesus in [ Matt. 13:24- 30.; John 16:12-13] and that not all members of His one Church would go to heaven [ Matt. 7: 21-23 ]
The only church to ever receive the Holy Spirit was His Church and that was at Pentecost 1st. century.
His apostles are the nucleus of His Church along with their future successors. Jesus' Church is called catholic [ "universal" in Greek ] because it is God's gift to all the worlds people.Jesus told His apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations " [ Matt 28: 19-20 ] .
Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, [ I hope you don't think that Jesus only taught His apostles for the 1st century christians alone ] along with their successors, the popes and the bishops," He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me " [ Luke 10:16 ] along with the power and authority to forgive sins [ John 20: 23 ] and [ 1st Tim. 2: 3-4 ] Jesus promised to protect His only apostolic Church [ Matt.16: 15-19 ] and to always guide His Church into all truths [ John 16:12-13 ]. We can be confident that His Church teaches the truth of Jesus.[ 1st. Timothy 3:14 ],
Why do you reject the only Church that Jesus left for "all" of us ???
Seriously? Do you guys even read my posts? How many times have I already said that NO Church is perfect? Several, I believe...go back and check. You seem to only see where I mention the RCC has issues....selective reading, it seems.
Okay...just let me say... :blink:
I read your post.
God left us only with His Church, not a church or cult starting from the 16th century onward.So why do you reject His One True Universal and Apostolic Church as i 've described above?
God left us only with His Church, not a church or cult starting from the 16th century onward.So why do you reject His One True Universal and Apostolic Church as i 've described above?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
aspen2,you call yourself 'Catholic" yet you refuse to acknowlege the only One True Universal [ Catholic, Greek word ] and Apostolic Church.
If you refuse to accept the following then you are not a real Catholic;
1-The Church is One- [ Rom.12:5. 1 Cor. 10;17, 12:13 ]
2-The Church is Holy- [ Eph. 5:25-27, Rev. 19:7-8, ]
3- The Church is Catholic- [ Matt. 28:19-20, Rev. 5:9-10 ]
4- The Church is Apostolic-[ Eph. 2:19-20 ]
If you refuse to accept the following then you are not a real Catholic;
1-The Church is One- [ Rom.12:5. 1 Cor. 10;17, 12:13 ]
2-The Church is Holy- [ Eph. 5:25-27, Rev. 19:7-8, ]
3- The Church is Catholic- [ Matt. 28:19-20, Rev. 5:9-10 ]
4- The Church is Apostolic-[ Eph. 2:19-20 ]
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
'Separated brothers' is what the Pope calls Protestants. He does not teach that they are part of a cult that never received the Spirit! Big difference.
Do you see what kind of damage you are doing here? Do you really believe that anyone is going to join the Catholic Christ because some new guy is preaching Catholicism over Christianity? You need to check yourself.
Right now, you are fulfilling all the expectations of anti-catholics who read your posts and helping everyone else see a very ugly side to our church.
I agree with you aspen2 ,yes, they [ the non-Catholic Christians] are indeed our "brothers and sisters in Christ". My problem is that many non-Catholics have a difficulty in accepting that Catholics are indeed Christian.The reason they don't understand is from much false historical data and misinformation on exactly what the Catholic Church really teaches. Ignorance of Catholicism is the biggest enemy of the Catholic Church. One of the very early Christians, St. Jerome, once wrote; '' To be ignorant of Scripture is to be ignorant of Christ." That is very true, because of ignorance fed me I once earlier left the Church for a funtamentalist/evangelical church.
Luther, near the end of his life, with much dissapointment wrote: " There are now as many gospels as there are minds ". I apologise for my seemingly crude manner of writing, I am not very educated, lack writing skills and not very commuter adept, but I do agree with you aspen2 that I haven't any excuse for the bad manners or hardness of heart that I unintentionally project in my posts, please forgive me. I will try to damper it down. After having left the Catholic Church earlier in my life because of ignorance fed me by much anti-Catholic teachings I have become very defensive of the Catholic Church. I often use the following borrowed quote to explain my stance on reverting back "Home'' to the Catholic Church; " Twenty-five years ago I found Jesus then Twenty-five years later I found His Church".
Luther, near the end of his life, with much dissapointment wrote: " There are now as many gospels as there are minds ". I apologise for my seemingly crude manner of writing, I am not very educated, lack writing skills and not very commuter adept, but I do agree with you aspen2 that I haven't any excuse for the bad manners or hardness of heart that I unintentionally project in my posts, please forgive me. I will try to damper it down. After having left the Catholic Church earlier in my life because of ignorance fed me by much anti-Catholic teachings I have become very defensive of the Catholic Church. I often use the following borrowed quote to explain my stance on reverting back "Home'' to the Catholic Church; " Twenty-five years ago I found Jesus then Twenty-five years later I found His Church".
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