POLL: Have all Old Testament prophecies about the earthly kingdoms of Israel and Judah been fulfille

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

God makes a new heaven and a new earth and then the heavenly Jerusalem comes down

Revelation 21:1-2
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

Jeremiah 31 is about the earthly Jerusalem that will not be destroyed again ..... we should consider that literal .... just like some day Damascus will be destroyed .... never to be rebuilt again ..... Babylon will be destroyed never to be rebuilt again ..... we take those statements as literal .... and they are all still future .

Again, your reasoning is self-contradictory. The Jeremiah prophecy cannot be taken literally because it says Jerusalem will be rebuilt and not be removed again. An earthly Jerusalem will have to be removed, whether by a new earth being created or the new Jerusalem landing on top of it. So an earthly Jerusalem cannot be what GOD was referring to through the pen of Jeremiah.

Would you please show me some historical accounts of Christ slaying the wicked with the breath of His lips?

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. Woe unto you, [ye] blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! Matthew 23:13-16

And you think that Judah and Ephraim have been reunited as in... Eze 37:16-23

Yes, I do. Those whom Ezekiel prophesied about are the remnant in Christ who Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

You really think the State of Israel fulfills this today?

No I do not. It has nothing to do with Ezekiel's prophecy.

Show me David ruling over a reunited Israel. He is still in His grave awaiting his resurrection...

Do you seriously think that there will be two kings; reigning over Israel? There is one lord and his name is Jesus, the root of David who now sits on David's throne in the real Zion.

 

[tim_from_pa]

I don't think the children of Israel were to become many nations, but the promise to Abraham was that he'd be the father of many nations. That would include Israel, Judah and:

The 12 nations of the sons of Ishmael

• 
  And these are the names of the sons of Ishmael, by their names, according to their generations: the firstborn of Ishmael Nebajoth, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadar, Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah. These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles, twelve princes according to their nations. Genesis 25:13
  

The nation of Edom

• 
  Thus dwelt Esau in mount Seir. Esau is Edom. And these are the generations of Esau, the father of the Edomites in mount Seir. Genesis 36:8
  

The seed of Abraham in every nation

• 
  With these things I saw and beheld a vast multitude which no one was able to number out of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues standing before the throne and before the lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches in their hands. And they cry a great voice saying, "Our God the salvation, the one sitting upon the throne and the lamb." Revelation 7:9
  

You're wrong, as the promise of becoming many nations was part of the genealogical promises to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their seed.

Take note with this infallible scripture:

And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of
nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins

Clear cut, and there's others.

The nations you have listed above, grant it, are from Abraham, but are not the promised seed. The promised seed of physical descendents were to become many nations. And that promise went with Israel, specifically Joseph, not the Jews.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You're wrong, as the promise of becoming many nations was part of the genealogical promises to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their seed.

Take note with this infallible scripture:

Clear cut, and there's others.

The nations you have listed above, grant it, are from Abraham, but are not the promised seed. The promised seed of physical descendents were to become many nations. And that promise went with Israel, specifically Joseph, not the Jews.

Everything I posted is true concerning Abraham. No promises were made like that to Isaac. The promise was made to Jacob, so that would mean that the great multitude of peoples would be the nations that come from him. No promise was made to any of them that the seed would become many nations. Only that the land would be given to their seed.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Again, your reasoning is self-contradictory. The Jeremiah prophecy cannot be taken literally because it says Jerusalem will be rebuilt and not be removed again. An earthly Jerusalem will have to be removed, whether by a new earth being created or the new Jerusalem landing on top of it. So an earthly Jerusalem cannot be what GOD was referring to through the pen of Jeremiah.

Are you pretending to know the mechanics of how God makes the new heaven and new earth and exactly how he changes the original one ?

Like I said in my first post on this topic ..... guys like you wiggle and squirm yourselves into oblivion because your minds are slammed shut with preconceived notions.

And top top it all off .... I expected that from you from the start.

In other words I am a big dummy

To waste a even a split second of my time on you.

Yes I am.

 

[tim_from_pa]

Everything I posted is true concerning Abraham. No promises were made like that to Isaac. The promise was made to Jacob, so that would mean that the great multitude of peoples would be the nations that come from him. No promise was made to any of them that the seed would become many nations. Only that the land would be given to their seed.

That makes no sense. This was passed down from father to son as the birthright, like any inheritance. All 3 guys had nations and/or great number of seed (which goes together) promised to them. The title of this thread since you started the thread is


Have all Old Testament prophecies about the earthly kingdoms of Israel and Judah been fulfilled?

And now that I look at the title more carefully, I see you said prophecies. I mistook it for promises which is why you heard me talking about genealogy and birthrights and other national promises made. Not all the promises were fulfilled and certainly not the prophecies. There is too much prophesied to Israel and Judah which clearly did not take place yet clearly in the millennium. Wow! Sorry I read the wrong word. Now that I understand you said prophecies, that is a good portion of the bible, the scope being very large indeed. I don't think one thread will do this justice.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And now that I look at the title more carefully, I see you said prophecies. I mistook it for promises which is why you heard me talking about genealogy and birthrights and other national promises made. Not all the promises were fulfilled and certainly not the prophecies. There is too much prophesied to Israel and Judah which clearly did not take place yet clearly in the millennium. Wow! Sorry I read the wrong word. Now that I understand you said prophecies, that is a good portion of the bible, the scope being very large indeed. I don't think one thread will do this justice.

That's why I started another thread regarding the promises. Slowly working on that.

You do make a good point about promises to Abraham being passed on to Isaac, even though Isaac may not have received a promise directly. I'll have to consider that.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

My vote is YES.

I am issuing a challenge to everyone to refute this belief by way of scripture. Please post only one verse, or pericope (section of continuous verses) per post, and give your explanation why it hasn't been fulfilled. Long posts with numerous verses are strongly discouraged. Also please read through the entire thread before posting because what you want to post may have already been addressed. No point in rehashing verses that have already been covered.

I think I have been through every one, but I may have missed something.

The answer to your question is .... NO .... all prophecies about Israel and Judah have not been fulfilled


The day of the lord is still future .... and on the day of the Lord , Christ returns to deliver Jerusalem Israel from her earthly enemies (From Zechariah 14)

..................................................................

The Lord Comes and Reigns

A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.
I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.
On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.

The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.
The whole land, from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem, will become like the Arabah. But Jerusalem will be raised up high from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses, and will remain in its place. It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.

This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot
while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. On that day people will be stricken by the Lord with great panic. They will seize each other by the hand and attack one another. Judah too will fight at Jerusalem. The wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected—great quantities of gold and silver and clothing. A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.

Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations
that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.

On that day holy to the Lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the Lord’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar. Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord Almighty.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The answer to your question is .... NO .... all prophecies about Israel and Judah have not been fulfilled
The day of the lord is still future .... and on the day of the Lord , Christ returns to deliver Jerusalem Israel from her earthly enemies (From Zechariah 14)
..................................................................
The Lord Comes and Reigns

A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.
I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

The version of Zechariah 14:5 you used is a mistranslation (corruption actually) which consequently undermines your whole argument. This verse really says:

The valley between the hills will be filled in, yes, it will be blocked as far as Jasol [Azal], it will be filled in as it was by the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Zechariah 14:5, New Jerusalem Bible

This translation is the most accurate that I have found and changes everything. There will be no splitting of the Mt of Olives, because it has already 'split' (rend or tear apart is a better translation) during a major landslide that has been identified by Israeli geologists (located where the text 'Mount of Olives' is in the image below). Azal has been identified by Israeli archaeologists as being the valley called Wadi Yasul by the Arabs for millenia. There is an exact etymological correspondence between the Arabic Yasul and the Hebrew Azal. Its name in Hebrew, נחל אצל (Nahal Azal; Azal River or Valley), is visible on Google Maps directly below the read marker (A). Your interpretation says that people will flee east from Jerusalem through a split Mt of Olives to Azal; but that is physically impossible because Azal lies due south of both old Jerusalem and the Mt of Olives, as is evident on the map.

Again, that changes everything and means chapter 14 can't be read as a temporally contiguous prophecy.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

ChristRoseFromTheDead

Typical of people like you ..... when the bible does not agree with you ....... you blame the bible

Typical

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

ChristRoseFromTheDead

Typical of people like you ..... when the bible does not agree with you ....... you blame the bible

Typical

The bible says:

The valley between the hills will be filled in, yes, it will be blocked as far as Jasol [Azal], it will be filled in as it was by the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Zechariah 14:5, New Jerusalem Bible

and you do not agree with it. Isn't that rebellion?

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

The bible says:

The valley between the hills will be filled in, yes, it will be blocked as far as Jasol [Azal], it will be filled in as it was by the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Zechariah 14:5, New Jerusalem Bible

and you do not agree with it. Isn't that rebellion?

You are trying to change the subject now
Your original question was whether all prophecies for Judah & Israel have been fulfilled
Zech 14 shows there is more to come for Judah & Jerusalem, Israel

Now you try to wiggle away from that fact by switching subjects and saying verse 5 is rebellion
Verse 5 is about people fleeing
Verse 2 says half the people will be taken into exile and the other half remain in the city (Jerusalem)
And even if Israel is in rebellion , it has nothing to do with your original question in your OP

besides , the main message of Zech 14 is what God does to the nations who come against jerusalem , Israel , on the day of the Lord.

It tells of the plagues God throws at the nations who fought against jerusalem before the Lord comes back.

And that my friend means there are still old testament prophecies for the earthly kingdoms of Israel and Judah

I am puzzled why you dislike the fact God is not done with Israel yet

maybe you are jealous and want all of God's attention to be on you exclusively or something

If that is the case , it is based on selfish christian pride and anti-semitism

Neither of which is spiritually healthy

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Verse 5 is about people fleeing

Where does it say anything in this verse about people fleeing?

The valley between the hills will be filled in, yes, it will be blocked as far as Jasol [Azal], it will be filled in as it was by the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Zechariah 14:5, New Jerusalem Bible

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Where does it say anything in this verse about people fleeing?

The valley between the hills will be filled in, yes, it will be blocked as far as Jasol [Azal], it will be filled in as it was by the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Zechariah 14:5, New Jerusalem Bible

Now you appear to be blind as a bat

5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will
flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of
Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Now you appear to be blind as a bat

5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

Not blind. The version you displayed is from corrupted manuscripts. What Zechariah actually wrote is:

The valley between the hills will be filled in, yes, it will be blocked as far as Jasol [Azal], it will be filled in as it was by the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Zechariah 14:5, New Jerusalem Bible

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Not blind. The version you displayed is from corrupted manuscripts. What Zechariah actually wrote is:

The valley between the hills will be filled in, yes, it will be blocked as far as Jasol [Azal], it will be filled in as it was by the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Zechariah 14:5, New Jerusalem Bible

You are reading from the Catholic bible, that's why

They do not consider Israel is still in Gods plans either

They do not consider the protestants are in Gods plans either.

What does any of this have to do with your opening question

Or are you still just changing disguises instead of reading what the bible says.

Its your future , I could care less what you believe.... it dont matter to me.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You are reading from the Catholic bible, that's why
They do not consider Israel is still in Gods plans either
They do not consider the protestants are in Gods plans either.

The New Jerusalem bible is a Catholic bible. But the version of Zechariah 14:5 that I showed you is also found in all Eastern Orthodox bibles, some Protestant bibles, and later Jewish bibles published by the Jewish Publication Society (JPS). The JPS' stated editorial policy is to favor the version of Zechariah 14:5 that you think is right, but has used the version I say is right in a series of publications since about 1985. They have based their decision on scholarship, not tradition.

Do you know what version of the bible the apostles used?

 

[veteran]

The NO answer is easy, because of Bible Scripture like this...


Rev 22:1-7
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and His servants shall serve Him:
4 And they shall see His face; and His name shall be in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to shew unto His servants the things which must shortly be done.
7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
(KJV)

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Do you know what version of the bible the apostles used?

5. And you shall flee to the valley of the mountains,

ה. וְנַסְתֶּם גֵּיא הָרַי כִּי יַגִּיעַ גֵּי הָרִים אֶל אָצַל וְנַסְתֶּם כַּאֲשֶׁר נַסְתֶּם מִפְּנֵי הָרַעַשׁ בִּימֵי עֻזִּיָּה

Have all Old Testament prophecies about the earthly kingdoms of Israel and Judah been fulfilled?

I am issuing a challenge to everyone to refute this belief by way of scripture. Please post only one verse,

Zech 14:1
A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

Where does it say anything in this verse about people fleeing?

Zech 14:5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake ....

Zech 14:2 Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

I suspect that if someone here quoted ALL the unfulfilled prophecies pertaining to Israel .... you would try to wiggle out of it somehow

But for the heck of it .... I will test you to see if you really want to learn or not .

My prediction came through with 100% accuracy

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

5. And you shall flee to the valley of the mountains,

ה. וְנַסְתֶּם גֵּיא הָרַי כִּי יַגִּיעַ גֵּי הָרִים אֶל אָצַל וְנַסְתֶּם כַּאֲשֶׁר נַסְתֶּם מִפְּנֵי הָרַעַשׁ בִּימֵי עֻזִּיָּה

That version of Zechariah 14:5 is obviously from the Masoretic Text (MT) which wasn't fully redacted until nearly 1000 years after the apostles. The apostles used the Septuagint (LXX), which is a Greek translation of the ancient Hebrew scrolls made nearly 1000 years before the MT, and 100-200 years before their time. The LXX says this:

The valley between the hills will be filled in, yes, it will be blocked as far as Jasol [Azal], it will be filled in as it was by the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Zechariah 14:5, New Jerusalem Bible

So the apostles used bibles that had the version I say is correct.

Zech 14:1 A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

That happened in 70 AD. What warrant do you have to ignore an obvious fulfillment of this verse in order to project it into the future?

Zech 14:5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake ....

Zech 14:2 Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

The translation in verse 5 resulted from corrupted manuscripts. In other words, it is not what Zechariah wrote.

Verse 2 happened in 70 AD. Again, what warrant do you have to ignore an obvious fulfillment of this verse in order to project it into the future?

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

That happened in 70 AD. What warrant do you have to ignore an obvious fulfillment of this verse in order to project it into the future?

Are you also claiming these following things happened in 70 AD .....
...........................................................................................................

Zech 14:3 3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem,

6 On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. 7 It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night.

8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem

9 The Lord will be king over the whole earth.

12 This is the plague with which the Lord will strike
all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot
while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in
their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths