Poll. Will we be judged when we die?

[Sel@h]

The judgment happens after the Millennium at the Great White Throne Judgment.

 

[shepherdsword]

The evidence you brought to bear on this is good information, but it only goes to prove my statement that...

The early KJV translators translated this as Judgment Seat of Christ. when it was first translated (1611), the only known use of BHMA in 1611 that didn't even fit the context was Tribunal (Judgment Seat), also Platform, Step.

You cited as the usage of BHMA:

• βῆμα, a step, pace; a platform (emphasis added)

That is what I am arguing!!

The judges of the Olympics would sit on a raised platform so they could see the competition and ultimately reward the winners. The raised platform was called the BHMA. FYI, the BHMA is still seen in Corinth today.

Also, your very first sentence above says, "This is why I do not accept it as referring sole(l)y to a rewards ceremony."

This is what I have argued also. One use of BHMA is the raised platform found in the middle of the city where various trials were held by city magistrates. You can see that both uses of BHMA have judges and raised platforms.

No, you said "Bema" was exclusively a "rewards ceremony" My post was to dispute that.

 

[rwb]

The evidence you brought to bear on this is good information, but it only goes to prove my statement that...

The early KJV translators translated this as Judgment Seat of Christ. when it was first translated (1611), the only known use of BHMA in 1611 that didn't even fit the context was Tribunal (Judgment Seat), also Platform, Step.

You cited as the usage of BHMA:

• βῆμα, a step, pace; a platform (emphasis added)

That is what I am arguing!!

The judges of the Olympics would sit on a raised platform so they could see the competition and ultimately reward the winners. The raised platform was called the BHMA. FYI, the BHMA is still seen in Corinth today.

Also, your very first sentence above says, "This is why I do not accept it as referring sole(l)y to a rewards ceremony."

This is what I have argued also. One use of BHMA is the raised platform found in the middle of the city where various trials were held by city magistrates. You can see that both uses of BHMA have judges and raised platforms.

You are conflating the two, where the Bible does not! The earthly judgment seat used for judging winners of a sporting event, is not to be compared to the judgment seat of Christ. The one can only judge outwardly, while the judgment seat of Christ judges inwardly; judging according to the heart.

 

[rwb]

The judgment happens after the Millennium at the Great White Throne Judgment.

What judgment happens after a/the thousand years at the GWTJ? Who shall be called before the GWT to be judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life? Does not Scripture tell you that only the DEAD shall be judged before the GWT? Does Scripture also not tell you that Paul is speaking to the body of Christ, called church, when he writes "we must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ"? IOW the DEAD (unbelievers) are judged at the GWT, and those who in life have been born again Christians (disciples of Christ) must all stand before the JSC.

Ro 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Ro 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Ro 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Ro 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Ro 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Judgment after death?

1) Yes, According To "The Revelation Of The Mystery", There will be A [ Bema ] Judgment Seat Of Christ,

for All Grace believers In The Body Of Christ, who,"By Grace Through faith" are "translated Into The ​

[ Heavenly ] Kingdom" (Colossians 1:13 AV), after resurrection And "Caught Up" ( God's Great GRACE ​

Departure! ) = End Of Mystery, and...:​

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!" (BBS)

...And When Prophecy Resumes:

2) Next, "Immediately after Israel's Great Tribulation, At Christ's Prophesied Second Coming,

with Another "trumpet" after the "seventh angel trumpet", Christ On His earthly Throne, ​

Sending His [ army of ] angels to "gather His elect" For The:​

"sheep and goats" [ faith + works ] Judgment in order to "Enter the earthly kingdom":​

(Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27; Matthew 25:31-46 AV)​

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!" (BBS)

3) Finally, All unbelievers (dead) Will Be "delivered up" To The Great White Throne Judgment!:

​

Three Books At Judgment!​

​

Amen.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Does not Scripture tell you that only the DEAD shall be judged before the GWT?

Amen! Not sure how a dead Unbeliever can be a "co-labourer With God", eh?:

The Judgment Seat Of Christ:​

"Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall​

receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers​

together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.​

According to The Grace Of God Which Is Given Unto me, as a wise masterbuilder,​

I have laid The Foundation, and another buildeth Thereon. But let every man take​

heed how he buildeth Thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that​

is laid, Which Is Jesus Christ.​

​

Now if any man build upon This Foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay,​

stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for The Day Shall Declare it, because​

it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.​

​

If any man's work abide which he hath built Thereupon, he shall receive a reward.​

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself Shall Be Saved;​

yet so as by fire." (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV)​

​

Or, how Unbelievers are Saved, being "Cast Into The Lake Of Fire", What?

 

[PinSeeker]

We will all be judged according to what we have done...

"Do you suppose, O man⁠ ~ you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself⁠ ~ that you will escape the judgment of God?... He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury" (Romans 2:3-8).

And we see this in Jesus's graphic description of the final Judgment ~ Yes, the Great White Throne judgment of Revelation 20:11-15 ~ in Matthew 25:31-46. This will occur very shortly after all are bodily resurrected, some to eternal life and others to judgment (John 5:28-29).

Grace and peace to all.

 

[rwb]

We will all be judged according to what we have done...

"Do you suppose, O man⁠ ~ you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself⁠ ~ that you will escape the judgment of God?... He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury" (Romans 2:3-8).

And we see this in Jesus's graphic description of the final Judgment ~ Yes, the Great White Throne judgment of Revelation 20:11-15 ~ in Matthew 25:31-46. This will occur very shortly after all are bodily resurrected, some to eternal life and others to judgment (John 5:28-29).

Grace and peace to all.

In Rev 20 only the DEAD (unbelievers) are called to stand in resurrected MORTAL body of flesh & blood to be judged according to what is found written in the books and the book of life. John tells us this will happen in an hour coming when all MORTAL flesh is resurrected to life. But John writes of only those who have done bad being resurrected to damnation, while those who have done good resurrected to life. Those who have done good are not judged with those who have done bad, because only the good are changed from mortal/corruptible flesh and blood to immortal/incorruptible body that shall never die.

The faithful (born again) mortal dead shall not be judged (GWTJ) because the body resurrected from the grave was judged before death as being in Christ, judged in life through the Spirit of Christ in them. The faithful are those who have been born again because in life before they died, they stood before the judgment seat of Christ, judged receiving good (blessings in life) or bad (chastening from God) according to what they have done while physically in the body of Christ. So, when the good are resurrected with the bad they are not judged as the bad shall be at the great white throne according to what is written in the books and the book of life. Because they were judged in life (standing before the judgment seat of Christ), they are resurrected changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible, with their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life and will not have part in the second death.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Re 20:11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[PinSeeker]

In Rev 20 only the DEAD (unbelievers) are called to stand in resurrected MORTAL body of flesh & blood to be judged according to what is found written in the books and the book of life.

"the dead, great and small" (Revelation 20:11), RWB, includes both God's saints (all those in Christ, so believers; Revelation 11:18, 19:5) and the beast's worshipers (unbelievers; Revelation 13:16, 19:18).

John tells us this will happen in an hour coming when all MORTAL flesh is resurrected to life.

Well it's Jesus, actually... <smile> ...but yes, I agree, He's speaking of the resurrection of "all who are in the tombs" (John 5:28), which includes ~ like "the dead great and small" of Revelation 20:11 ~ both believers and unbelievers who have died previously; we know there will be people still alive when Jesus returns, both believers and unbelievers, as Paul speaks of in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 ~ "the dead in Christ will rise first, and (those in Christ) who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air..." Unbelievers will be resurrected, too, but to judgment... So to what you say here, yes, all mortal flesh will be resurrected to "life" in the sense that they will be alive again, but many will be resurrected to God's eternal judgment, which will be exacted upon them, placed upon them, in the form of final and permanent condemnation, as a result of the final Judgment, and this is the second death of Revelation 20... <shudder>

But John writes of only those who have done bad being resurrected to damnation, while those who have done good resurrected to life.

Well, again, John is writing Jesus's words there... you know that... but yes, two very different outcomes, or what they are resurrected to, many to (eternal) life and the rest to (eternal) judgment. I think we will agree that the final Judgment immediately follows this general, physical resurrection, which, when the scene of the final judgment opens in Revelation 20:11 has just happened.

Those who have done good are not judged with those who have done bad...

Again, "the dead, great and small" (Revelation 20:11) includes both God's saints and the beast's worshipers. And at the beginning of this final Judgment, "books were opened" (Revelation 20:12; "books" is plural, and a good cross-reference here is Daniel 7:10, "A stream of fire issued and came out from before him; a thousand thousands served him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him; the court sat in judgment, and the books were opened"), and this provides the ground on which each is judged.

Again, Paul says in Romans 2:6-11, "He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury."

And again, we see in Jesus's depiction of this final Judgment in Matthew 25:31-46 that all are judged. Jesus will place "the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left," and those on His right will be judged righteous because, as He says, "I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed Me, I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me... as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me." And those on His left we agree on; they are in the same manner judged unrighteous and... <shudder>

...because only the good are changed from mortal/corruptible flesh and blood to immortal/incorruptible body that shall never die.

Sure.

The faithful (born again) mortal dead shall not be judged (GWTJ)...

Disagree; see above.

...the body resurrected from the grave was judged before death as being in Christ

No, the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us... credited to us, in God's mercy and compassion, His grace, just as was the case with Abraham. This is our justification, not a judgment placed upon us, and not a judgment at all but a blessing, borne of God's grace, His mercy and compassion.

The faithful are those who have been born again...

Of course...

...because in life before they died, they stood before the judgment seat of Christ,

Disagree. See above. Christ's righteousness is imputed to us; we are credited with it, even while not having any righteousness of our own, and this is because of God's grace, His mercy and compassion toward us in this justification and our being born again of the Spirit and thus placed in Christ. As Paul says in Ephesians 2, "God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ⁠ ~ by grace you have been saved⁠ ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works...." Surely you will agree that this is not a judgment of any kind, but a great blessing.

judged receiving good (blessings in life) or bad (chastening from God) according to what they have done while physically in the body of Christ.

The chastening, RWB, is God's discipline, which He gives to those He loves (Hebrews 12:5-6), and thus also a grace. Yes, this discipline can be exacted on us in the form of judgments, but in a much lesser sense. But we are not now and will not be at the end of the age judged as unrighteous and thus receive final judgment in the sense of condemnation. As Paul says in Romans 8:1, "there is therefore now no more condemnation for those in Christ Jesus." But this does not negate what he says in Romans 2:6-8, that "He will render to each one according to His works..." (so all will be judged) "...to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury." So, we will be judged at the final Judgment, the Great White Throne judgment of Revelation 20. But we will be judged according to the righteousness of Christ. and thus we will stand in the Judgment, unlike the wicked, who "will not stand in the Judgment... the way of the wicked will perish" (Psalm 1), and this is the "second death" of Revelation 20, which is exacted in God's wrath, which we will not be exempted from and therefore not subject to.

Grace and peace to you, RWB.

 

[rwb]

"the dead, great and small" (Revelation 20:11), RWB, includes both God's saints (all those in Christ, so believers; Revelation 11:18, 19:5) and the beast's worshipers (unbelievers; Revelation 13:16, 19:18).

Born again believers will not be judged before the GWT! Why? Because there is NOW, (in Christ) no condemnation for them. Resurrected born again saints shall be resurrected to life, not to condemnation, already changed from mortal flesh & blood to immortal & incorruptible body that shall never know sin, or death.

Ro 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Again, "the dead, great and small" (Revelation 20:11) includes both God's saints and the beast's worshipers.

Why would you include born again believers who have eternal life through Christ with "the dead, great and small"?

Only the mortal body of born-again believers are destined to die. Even though our body of mortal flesh shall die, born again believers are NOT of the dead though our mortal body is destined to death. Those born-again believers who have physically died are the spirits of just men already made spiritually perfect. Our mortal flesh shall be resurrected and changed and made immortally alive through the spirit that returns with Christ.

In this life when we have been born-again through the Spirit of Christ in us it is written: "Ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels"...."the spirits of just men made perfect."

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

That's why we read throughout the Bible when we have been born-again, we HAVE ETERNAL life and can NEVER die. Since, as spiritual body after physical death, we ascend alive to the Kingdom of God in heaven and return spiritually alive with Christ when He comes again, because life comes not from flesh, but from spirit. (1Cor 15:44; 2Cor 5:8; Php 1:20-23)

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

No, the Bible shows that born again saints are no longer among the DEAD! Which is why John writes "all who come out of the GRAVES shall hear His voice."

Again, Paul says in Romans 2:6-11, "He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury."

But Paul is not speaking of the GWTJ. He is speaking to the church. Those who profess to be born-again Christians of being judged according to our works done through/in the body of Christ. Paul is warning believers not to judge our brothers for things we ourselves are guilty of. Because those who do the same things they discern others guilty of doing will not escape the judgment seat of Christ in this life. Why does God judge and chasten, we, who are the body of Christ in this life? Because the judgment we receive from God in this life, when we have been born again, will lead us to repentance, that we shall not fear the GWTJ that shall come at the end of this age. Remember the Scripture, while we are in this life God chastens and rebukes those whom He loves, dealing with us as sons, whereof all are partakers in this life.

Heb 12:4 ¶ Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Matthew 25:31-46 that all are judged. Jesus will place "the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left," and those on His right will be judged righteous because, as He says, "I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed Me, I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me... as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me."

Those on the right hand of Christ are declared righteous before all nations are gathered before Him. That's why they are on His right, and not on His left hand, that they too will not be judged as those on the left. Don't forget that when all are called before God, those on His right are already changed from mortal corruptible body to immortal/incorruptible body at the sound of the last trumpet (1Cor 15:52). Born again faithful saints don't have to wait until the final judgment to be declared righteous, we are made righteous "by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost". IOW from the moment we believe on Christ and are born again through His Spirit in us.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 4:5 (KJV) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 9:30 (KJV) What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Christ's righteousness is imputed to us; we are credited with it, even while not having any righteousness of our own, and this is because of God's grace, His mercy and compassion toward us in this justification and our being born again of the Spirit and thus placed in Christ.

John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 3:22 (KJV) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Ro 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Ro 4:9 ¶ Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Ro 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Ro 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

 

[PinSeeker]

Born again believers will not be judged before the GWT!

Yes we wiiiiiiiiill... <smile> The difference is that we who are in Christ will have an Advocate, and thus will not be judged according to our own righteousness ~ thank goodness for that, because we have none in and of ourselves ~ but His. We will all be judged according to what we have done.

Why would you include born again believers who have eternal life through Christ with "the dead, great and small"? Only the mortal body of born-again believers are destined to die.

You actually answer your own question here, RWB. I think the disagreement between us here may be regarding Revelation 20:12... who John is actually referring to when he says "the dead." It's actually "the dead, great and small" (emphasis mine), which in this vision given to him includes all people, so believer and unbeliever alike. And this is driven home in the latter part of verse 12, there, "the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done..." [note the striking parallel there to what Paul says in Romans 2:6, "He will render to each one according to his works"] ...and again, "books" (plural, and including "the book of life" mentioned just previously in that very verse.

Those born-again believers who have physically died are the spirits of just men already made spiritually perfect. Our mortal flesh shall be resurrected and changed and made immortally alive through the spirit that returns with Christ.

Sure. Agreed. That second sentence... This is a little picky, maybe, but yes, for all of us, believers and unbelievers, our spirits will be reunited with our physical body in the second resurrection, at Jesus's return. And in a certain sense, we will all be "immortally alive"... everyone will live throughout eternity. But, as a result of the final Judgment, some will enter into the second death of Revelation 20, which is... away from the new heaven and new earth, not in the presence of the One Who is life. And they will live, as the man in Jesus's parable in Luke 16, in a state of torment, a "fire," where there is no grace but only permanent, unrelenting judgment. Forever. <shudder>

In this life when we have been born-again through the Spirit of Christ in us...

Sure. Agreed.

But Paul is not speaking of the GWTJ.

He is. It's only called the white throne judgment in Revelation 20. But he is speaking of the final Judgment.

He is speaking to the church.

Right, but his comments there in Romans 2 are about everyone. He has just spent pretty much the entirety of Romans 1 talking about those outside the church, unbelievers, those who have "exchanged the truth for a lie," being "without excuse," but then he turns and says we have no excuse, either. And then, yes, all will be judged according to what they have done.

Those who profess to be born-again Christians of being judged according to our works done through/in the body of Christ.

Romans 1 through 7 is about the whole of mankind, and then in Romans 8 is about God's grace to us who are in Christ. And we will be judged at the end of the age, but according to Christ's righteousness, not our own, because we are in Christ.

...we shall not fear the GWTJ that shall come at the end of this age.

Agreed. Most certainly. But we will be judged in it. Matthew 27:31-46 is a graphic description of this same final Judgment. And believers are there, on Christ's right, and they... we... are judged. According to what we have done.

Remember the Scripture, while we are in this life God chastens and rebukes those whom He loves, dealing with us as sons, whereof all are partakers in this life.

Yeah, I literally just pointed that out in my last post. <smile>

Those on the right hand of Christ are declared righteous before all nations are gathered before Him. That's why they are on His right, and not on His left hand...

Absolutely. We have actually already been declared righteous, and have been born again, and are in Christ, as I said. This is the justification given to us by God. And as Paul says, having been predestined, we have also been justified, and we will be glorified. This "golden chain of salvation" cannot be broken.

they too will not be judged as those on the left.

Ah, well, the outcome of their judgment ~ because they are in Christ ~ will be... different... <smile> ...than those on the left. <smile>

Grace and peace to you, RWB.

 

[RandyDawson]

Will we be judged when we die?

That's a silly question Did you not read the new testament?

Hebrews 9:27
it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

 

[rwb]

Yes we wiiiiiiiiill... <smile> The difference is that we who are in Christ will have an Advocate, and thus will not be judged according to our own righteousness ~ thank goodness for that, because we have none in and of ourselves ~ but His. We will all be judged according to what we have done.

I agree! All including born again Christians will be judged! Believers judged in this life; the DEAD judged before the GWT.

It's actually "the dead, great and small" (emphasis mIne), which in this vision given to him includes all people, so believer and unbeliever alike.

Small and great among the DEAD who are called before the GWT! Do you think small means all bad people, and great means all good people? It clearly does not. I am not among the DEAD even though my flesh is ordained to die, and when I breathe my last, as spiritual body I will ascend to heaven still a living soul, howbeit without human form. Because I have been born again and indwelt with the Spirit sent from Christ, possessing eternal life through Him, already confident that nothing can separate me from the love of God through Christ Jesus my Lord.

Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God

It is the DEAD, from the earth and the sea along with death itself, and hell; the place of the DEAD that shall be judged according to their works. Because in life they were never judged in/through Christ, never obtained eternal life through His Spirit in them.

Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

He is. It's only called the white throne judgment in Revelation 20. But he is speaking of the final Judgment.

Right, but his comments there in Romans 2 are about everyone.

Paul throughout is addressing everyone in the church of Rome. Yes, his comments are to everyone in the church, warning those who call themselves brothers/sisters in Christ to take care in this life how we judge. Because in this life we will receive blessings from God for the good we do, and also chastening for the bad we do. Then at the end of this life those who have remained faithful along with those who have learned to do good through chastening of God will not be condemned with the DEAD before the GWT.

The difficulty you're having comes from not being able to make any distinction between the judgment seat of Christ that believers in life are being judged by and the GWTJ for the DEAD that shall come when Christ comes again. You're trying to make them both the same judgment, but Scripture shows us it is the body of Christ that is judged in this life through the judgment seat of Christ by His Spirit in us. And Scripture is abundantly clear for those who receive it, the GWTJ is only for the DEAD who died without ever coming before the judgment seat of Christ through His Spirit in them before they physically died.

 

[KUWN]

That's a silly question Did you not read the new testament?

Hebrews 9:27
it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

Not sure I agree or disagree. Would you define "judgment"? I think of the English word seems to be used in a negative sense more times than not. I think of judgment in Greek as something more like an evaluation of various components. It also means evaluated after cognitive reasoning to come to a conclusion, whether good or bad

 

[RandyDawson]

Would you define "judgment"?

Romans 2:7-10
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[Armour of God]

That's a silly question Did you not read the new testament?

Hebrews 9:27
it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

Why is it a "silly question"?

The poll has 11 people saying yes, 5 people saying no and some debate about it, so the question is not silly at all.

Your actually the silly one to think that everyone has the same opinion on this topic