Polygamy

[dragonfly]

While the Scripture talks of marriage in the singular, it NEVER condemns polygamy.

Because a man could be married to several women.


2 Samuel 12:8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if [that had been] too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

It was okay in the OT, even the Law gave provisions for polygamy. Now, we as Christians aren't under the Law, there is still a model.

Yes, people who wish to be "authority" in the Church should have only one wife. The reason for that is clear. They need to focus on their tasks and duty. Having a wife is a good thing, she is a helper in many ways. A wife is a strength for many men.

Now, as society deems, it's wrong. Even among unbelievers, it's wrong. Where it came from doesn't matter. However, in America, I guess we're "free".

I've been thinking much about this lately. I have found no evidence that says it's a sin, but, have found more evidence that it's not the wisest decision. As stated before, dealing with one woman can be challenging enough, why would a man want more than one,,,,,,,,,, well, except for obvious reasons. This is true especially this day and age, where women don't seem to respect their men, men don't understand their roles, and men don't respect their women. Most people can't handle one solitary aspect of their lives outside of football, why on earth would they want to multiply tasks?

None of the concubines, nor extra wives had much of anything to do with providing stock for the world. I honestly think it's purely for then mans desire. We as men have a hard time not wanting to "hook up" with every good looking woman that winks at us. So, I believe it's more of a protection of virtue, rather than multiplication, or vanity.

I've spoken to my wife about this the past week. Just as I told her, "If I had to do it all over again, I would not have vowed to forsake all others till death do us part. I don't believe that plygamy is wrong. Given the chance, I still would've made the same choice, and married only you. I just don't like being manipulated by a man made doctrine passed on as God breathed." The GOOD woman that she is, understood.

After all that rambling, No, I don't think polygamy is a sin, I've found no evidence, (although can completely understand arguements against) that polygamy is sin.

 

[dragonfly]

No, I don't think polygamy is a sin, I've found no evidence, (although can completely understand arguements against) that polygamy is sin.

Isn't the picture which Christians hold to, that the Lord is coming for His Bride, singular?

Isn't this what God modeled with Israel, when He pleaded with her to keep herself only unto Him?

When I was a child, I lived in a country where polygamy was normal. It wasn't essential, but no-one who wanted multiple wives was prevented from taking them. This can, though, verge on both child abuse and slavery, given the idolatrous worship practices which tend to all go together with a lack of respect for others except self. It created children who honestly didn't know which mother was theirs (for sure), and disease spread easily between sexual partners. A child would be used to the question 'same father same mother?' when applying for education or healthcare.

Think about all that in a country with no real health service and no Christianity.

The thing about polygamy is that it comes naturally to a great many men. Is this really what God wants for His sons?

Is this really what God wants for the daughters of His sons?

 

[Groundzero]

Isn't the picture which Christians hold to, that the Lord is coming for His Bride, singular?

Isn't this what God modeled with Israel, when He pleaded with her to keep herself only unto Him?

When I was a child, I lived in a country where polygamy was normal. It wasn't essential, but no-one who wanted multiple wives was prevented from taking them. This can, though, verge on both child abuse and slavery, given the idolatrous worship practices which tend to all go together with a lack of respect for others except self. It created children who honestly didn't know which mother was theirs (for sure), and disease spread easily between sexual partners. A child would be used to the question 'same father same mother?' when applying for education or healthcare.

Think about all that in a country with no real health service and no Christianity.

The thing about polygamy is that it comes naturally to a great many men. Is this really what God wants for His sons?

Is this really what God wants for the daughters of His sons?

On the flip side, monogamous marriage has plenty of it's own problems as well. And that's got many movements decrying it. Doesn't exactly mean that it's wrong.
I actually think that monogamy comes more naturally to men.

 

[dragonfly]

I actually think that monogamy comes more naturally to men.

Whatever gives you this idea?


Here's why I ask.


There are two very well-known statements in scripture, both by Jesus, (as well as His statements about valid and invalid reasons for divorce) which clearly show God placing the emphasis on the man abiding by his original choice of woman. Matt 5:27, 28, Matt 19:4, 5, Gen 2:24.

Would the first have been made at all, if 'monogamy comes ... naturally to men'?

 

[Groundzero]

Whatever gives you this idea?


Here's why I ask.


There are two very well-known statements in scripture, both by Jesus, (as well as His statements about valid and invalid reasons for divorce) which clearly show God placing the emphasis on the man abiding by his original choice of woman. Matt 5:27, 28, Matt 19:4, 5, Gen 2:24.

Would the first have been made at all, if 'monogamy comes ... naturally to men'?

Well, firstly, there is a major difference between divorce and polygamy: divorce is ENDING the marriage. Polygamy is multiple marriages.

I would think that most men, especially now in our western society, would be more comfortable with ONE wife, rather than two/three/so on at once. Divorce is a whole different ball-game. And I think men aren't the only ones at fault there.

 

[dragonfly]

Well, firstly, there is a major difference between divorce and polygamy: divorce is ENDING the marriage. Polygamy is multiple marriages.

I would think that most men, especially now in our western society, would be more comfortable with ONE wife, rather than two/three/so on at once. Divorce is a whole different ball-game. And I think men aren't the only ones at fault there.

Hi Groundzero,

I think you have to weigh your 'think'ing with the reality that if it really is true 'most men, especially now in our western society, would be more comfortable with ONE wife', that they sure don't behave that way towards the women in society.

And that is part of the reason marriages break down... because far too many men (and women therefore) are not virgins when they marry. They have robbed themselves, and others, of one of their most precious assets, which has significant bearing on marriage.

Men who drift into co-habitation are more likely to want to move on eventually. They are simply obeying their fallen nature.

Men who make the decision to marry and choose their wife carefully, are more likely to weather the storms and be faithful.


My point is... that today... much of the damage to 'marriage' is done before men are of an age to make that commitment.

 

[Pelaides]

If you read the parable of the 10 virgins in Matthew25:1-13, you will notice there is no mention of a bride,which leads many people to the conclusion that the bridegroom is supposed to marry all 10 of these women.
King solomon had over700 wives and concubines.It seems that polygamy is biblicaly permissable.

 

[Brother James]

Was it a benefit to king Solomon to have so many wives? Are we not told that his practice of marrying pagan women is what drew Solomon away from God? Didn't Paul say it was better not to marry at all if one could do it and devote all their life to Christ? A wife draws one's attention away from God because of obligation and responsibility. Wives are distracting from the things of God for sure. 700? Paul told us "All things are permissible, but not all things edify." This seems particularly true in the case of multiple wives.

 

[Groundzero]

Hi Groundzero,

I think you have to weigh your 'think'ing with the reality that if it really is true 'most men, especially now in our western society, would be more comfortable with ONE wife', that they sure don't behave that way towards the women in society.

And that is part of the reason marriages break down... because far too many men (and women therefore) are not virgins when they marry. They have robbed themselves, and others, of one of their most precious assets, which has significant bearing on marriage.

Men who drift into co-habitation are more likely to want to move on eventually. They are simply obeying their fallen nature.

Men who make the decision to marry and choose their wife carefully, are more likely to weather the storms and be faithful.


My point is... that today... much of the damage to 'marriage' is done before men are of an age to make that commitment.

I'm not really sure where you're coming from, but I'm driving at this: most men, especially in the Western society, would not prefer polygamy. They may be unfaithful, but not polygamy.
If I understand correctly, it's not even legal in many places

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Groundzero,

Okay. I hear what you're saying about polygamy, and well done for keeping it in focus while I'm heading off tangentially.

Let me give you some scriptural background.... to help you define God's attitude to various 'male' and 'female' situations.


Exodus 22:16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.
17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.

Deuteronomy 21:10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, 11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; 12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; 13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. 14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

15 If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, [both] the beloved and the hated; and [if] the firstborn son be hers that was hated: 16 Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit [that] which he hath, [that] he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, [which is indeed] the firstborn: 17 But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated [for] the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he [is] the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn [is] his.

Deuteronomy 22:13 - 21, Deuteronomy 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, [both] the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

Deuteronomy 22:23 If a damsel [that is] a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; 24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, [being] in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die: 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; [there is] in the damsel no sin [worthy] of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so [is] this matter: 27 For he found her in the field, [and] the betrothed damsel cried, and [there was] none to save her.

[Note what God thinks of rape in the last few verses above - it is like killing the girl. 2 Sam 13:20, 22, 28.]

28 If a man find a damsel [that is] a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty [shekels] of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Leviticus 21:7 They [priests] shall not take a wife [that is] a whore, or profane; neither shall they take a woman put away from her husband: for he [is] holy unto his God. 8 Thou shalt sanctify him therefore; for he offers the bread of thy God: he shall be holy to thee: for I the LORD, which sanctify you, [am] holy. 9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profanes her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

10 And [he that is] the high priest among his brethren, upon whose head the anointing oil was poured, and that is consecrated to put on the garments, shall not uncover his head, nor rend his clothes; 11 Neither shall he go in to any dead body, nor defile himself for his father, or for his mother; 12 Neither shall he go out of the sanctuary, nor profane the sanctuary of his God; for the crown of the anointing oil of his God [is] upon him: I [am] the LORD. 13 And he shall take a wife in her virginity.

They may be unfaithful, but not polygamy.

From the point of view of a one and only wife, is unfaithfulness not worse than openly taking another wife?

What the man is demonstrating by his actions, is that he does not 'prefer one wife', even if it is not called 'polygamy' anymore. In fact, it is only adultery because he promised to keep himself for one woman. If he had not made that promise (as the woman in every polygamous marriage would have had to keep herself only for that husband), then it could be argued he has not been unfaithful.

Do you see what I mean? The definition of adultery depends on the definition of marriage. It would always be adultery if the second woman was already married. That would be an offence against her husband. If the second woman was not married, it would be an offence against her father.


Really, I wanted to draw to your attention is that men frequently want a woman they don't have - whether she be single or married; and that because of societal practices today, where there is no sanction against consenting adults, regardless of virginity or marital status - when one thinks about 'polygamy', there is only a cigarette paper between what goes on today outside of marriage, and the practice of formally marrying one after another - several women. Being able to prevent pregnancy has made it more difficult to object to what God strictly regulated under the law of Moses, because He understands how deeply sexual behaviour affects the participants.

I'm not really sure where you're coming from.

Your saying that a man would 'prefer one woman', sparked off all those scripture quotes..... :) so that I can now put it to you that your statement is believable only in respect of males who keep their virginity until they are married.

1 Corinthians 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make [them] the members of an harlot? God forbid. 16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man does is without the body; but he that commits fornication sins against his own body. 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.


Now do you see?

 

[aspen]

I am much more concerned about the pain that polygamy can cause towards everyone involved than the evilness of the concept of polygamy.

 

[Pelaides]

Was it a benefit to king Solomon to have so many wives? Are we not told that his practice of marrying pagan women is what drew Solomon away from God? Didn't Paul say it was better not to marry at all if one could do it and devote all their life to Christ? A wife draws one's attention away from God because of obligation and responsibility. Wives are distracting from the things of God for sure. 700? Paul told us "All things are permissible, but not all things edify." This seems particularly true in the case of multiple wives.

What you are saying is true,but it is not a sin to have more than 1 wife in the bible.1Kings 11:3 "Andhe had 700 wives,princesses,and 300 concubines:and his wives turned away his heart",

 

[Brother James]

Well, let me ask a question. What makes something a sin? Is every possible sin explicitly defined in the Bible? We know that idolitry is a sin, but is every possible circumstance that constitutes idolitry explained in the Bible? Some branches of theology argue that all sin, when you get right down to it, has its roots in idolitry. It is rebellion against God's will. If acting against God's will is sin, then the question becomes whether it is God's will for a man to take more than one wife. Remember, God allows sin but He is not the author of sin.

Some say that sin means to miss the mark of God's standard of righteousness. It is not necessarily a proposition of what ever we can get away with, but a question of what God's standard is. Just because sinful men living under the law had multiple wives does not make that God's standard. Just because multiple wives was not addressed in the ten commandments doesn't make it God's will to have multiple wives.

So I guess the question really hinges on the definition of "sin".

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I am much more concerned about the pain that polygamy can cause towards everyone involved than the evilness of the concept of polygamy.

EXACTLY ..... and it harms the girls (wives) as well as the other (young) men who cannot have a wife because some old greasy leader wants the young ones for himself. The young men are encouraged to leave the commune. We have a group in B.C. Canada that have been on the news for years who are like that .... they hide behind religion to avoid the law.

To me , modern day polygamy in North America is nothing more than greasy fat old pedophiles who want a young harem of pretty girls. ...... it's Absolutely disgusting. !!!

Bountiful B.C.
http://en.wikipedia....ritish_Columbia

And then there is Warren Jeffs ... he reminds me of evil in the flesh
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Warren_Jeffs

 

[Groundzero]

Hmmm, sort of. lol.

In reply to Arnie, while there are plenty of examples of what can go wrong with polygamy, the same happens with your normal marriage as well. We have plenty of cases of abuse in monogamous marriages as well.

The OP was is polygamy a sin?

All sin is defined in Scripture. And there are many different types. Sin can simply be not doing what one knows is right. Polygamy, if participated in AGAINST the will of God, is of course, like anything else, a sin, but polygamy on it's own, is NOT a sin, otherwise it would have been specified along with everything else.

 

[Brother James]

Is abortion a sin? It is not mentioned in the Bible explicitly. Is gambling a sin? What about masturbation, is that a sin? Many people teach that it is, but there's no mention of it in the Bible. What about watching violent slasher movies? Is it a sin to hold another person as a slave against their will? The Bible doesn't say that is sinful.

There are many things that the Bible doesn't name explicitly as sin, and in those cases we apply the principles of what is in the Bible. Every situation we encounter presents an opportunity for sin. I believe the many principles that are given in the Bible point to the fact that polygamy is not God's will for our lives. It seems to me that the message of the Bible is that polygamy brings heartache every single time it is practices. Abraham suffered because of it. So did David and Solomon. I see no example of it bringing happiness or prosperity to anyone.

 

[Groundzero]

Is abortion a sin? It is not mentioned in the Bible explicitly. Is gambling a sin? What about masturbation, is that a sin? Many people teach that it is, but there's no mention of it in the Bible. What about watching violent slasher movies? Is it a sin to hold another person as a slave against their will? The Bible doesn't say that is sinful.

There are many things that the Bible doesn't name explicitly as sin, and in those cases we apply the principles of what is in the Bible. Every situation we encounter presents an opportunity for sin. I believe the many principles that are given in the Bible point to the fact that polygamy is not God's will for our lives. It seems to me that the message of the Bible is that polygamy brings heartache every single time it is practices. Abraham suffered because of it. So did David and Solomon. I see no example of it bringing happiness or prosperity to anyone.

Abortion can be quite easily classified under murder, since that is what it really is. Masturbation? I'm not even going to go there since that is another pretty divisive topic. As for gambling, gambling in itself, I don't see anything wrong with it. But the moment it takes control of you, like anything else, it becomes a sin. As for violent slasher movies . . . . what positives and what negatives are there in them? Just because a movie is violent doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad.

The Scripture mentions many particular sins, such as gluttony, adultery, lying, fornication, pride, homosexuality, murder, robbery etc. Polygamy is never mentioned. Surely if it was wrong, it would have been mentioned?

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Groundzero,

but polygamy on it's own, is NOT a sin, otherwise it would have been specified along with everything else.

Where the gospel is preached, the existence of polygamy causes all sorts of difficulties for new converts. I'm not sure what the advice is, but I think the men are encouraged to keep the first wife, and let the others go, so that they can be the only wife of one husband. But you can see, I hope, that the matter of inheritance is greatly altered by a man who has several wives and say, twenty children, when compared to a man who has one wife... because even if he also has twenty children, there is a clear first and last, and only two parents for them to take care of.

 

[Brother James]

The Bible does not classify abortion as murder. We derive that position from the things the Bible does say. Surely if aborting a baby was "murder" the Bible would say so, wouldn't it?

There are countless acts that are sin that are not specifically mentioned in the Bible. Pride is a sin. When the Bible says "...a man will leave his father and his mother and be joined to his wife" and when it says "...and the two will become one flesh" what is it saying? Is there a clear model for marriage that God instituted? What plan of marriage conforms most closely with God's ideal? In Ephesians 5:22-23 Paul writes of the relationship between husbands and wives. Notice that he speaks of singular husband and singular wife.

I think it's pretty clear what God consideres the correct model for marriage. When we believe we know better than He does, is that not a sin of pride? Am I free to do anything at all that I wish to do as long as there is no explicit "don't do this specific thing" in the Bible? There are millions of example. Everybody seems to believe that viewing pornography is a sin. That is not mentioned in the Bible. Yes, looking on a woman with lust is said to be sin. But looking at a television screen or movie screen or computer screen? That's not a woman, that's a moving set of pixels. See what I mean? We have to use what scripture teaches to apply to every situation in life to come to the right decision. Polygamy is very much in that category. I can't imagine telling anyone, go ahead, take as many wives as you like, God's okay with that. I simply don't believe that.