Pope prays with Protestants on Reformation day

[epostle1]

You are correct to say doctrine must be tested against the Word but doctrine does indeed matter. There is a difference between veneration and worship. Mary, the mother of God the Son is most highly favored and blessed among women but to worship her is to worship the creature not the triune Creator. Many non-Catholics object to what looks like worship of Mary as the “Queen of Heaven” by the Roman church. But this is rather far afield from the original topic.

The myth of "Mary worship" never ends. Why can't you guys say the truth for a change? It's only been explained a million times on thousands of forums every day! You just like making things up to undermine the Church. It's immoral!

Much is made of the title Queen of Heaven by those who attack Catholicism and Marian devotion. The allusion is always to the pagan pantheons and to the mother of the gods, often mother in a very carnal sense of other pagan deities. The Canaanite worship of the "Queen of Heaven" condemned by the prophets is mentioned, as is the worship of Diana of the Ephesians, devotion to whom was exceeding popular before the Gospel arrived among the pagans. It is said that Catholicism at the Council of Ephesus restored this pagan devotion under the cover of devotion to Mary. The history of that Council given above shows the absurdity, and the intellectual dishonesty, of that claim! One might as well claim with respect to Jesus that Christians worship a mere man, since to arrive at this conclusion the Church's teaching must be ripped from its context and distorted to fit a preconceived judgement.

What then does it mean for Mary to be the Queen of Heaven? In the Old Testament monarchy the Queen of the Davidic Kingdom was the Queen Mother. The Kings, for reasons of state and human weakness, had many wives, none of whom fittingly could be called Queen. That honor was reserved for the mother of the King, whose authority far surpassed the many "queens" married to the king. We see this is the role Bathsheba played with respect to King Solomon and the occasions when the Queen Mother acted as regent on behalf of juvenile successors to the throne.

The role of the Queen Mother, therefore, is a prophetic type of the Kingdom role of Mary, just as the role of the Davidic King is a prophetic type of the Kingdom role of Jesus. Jesus inherited the Kingdom promised to David, who was told that one of his descendants would rule forever. The angel Gabriel revealed this fact to Mary at her Annunciation,

Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end." (Luke 1:31-33)

Aside from the prophetic types present in the Kingdom of Judah, there is also the text of Psalm 45, which when speaking of the Kingdom of God also speaks of its Queen.

[6] Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. [7] Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. [8] All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad. [9] Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir. [10] Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house; [11] So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him. (Psalm 45:6-11, KJV)

That Kingdom ruled by God is the same as the Kingdom ruled eternally by the Son of David. It is not an earthly kingdom, though it is present on earth in the Church, but a heavenly kingdom, the Kingdom of God. The Queen of that Kingdom is the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of the Lord God Jesus Christ.
QUEEN OF HEAVEN
(a purely spiritual, invisible kingdom cannot exist in both places)

​

 

[EndTimeWine]

You are correct to say doctrine must be tested against the Word but doctrine does indeed matter. There is a difference between veneration and worship. Mary, the mother of God the Son is most highly favored and blessed among women but to worship her is to worship the creature not the triune Creator. Many non-Catholics object to what looks like worship of Mary as the “Queen of Heaven” by the Roman church. But this is rather far afield from the original topic.

"Sola Fide"
"SOLA FACTUM APUD FIDE" =ONLY DEEDS IN FAITH justifies a man= "Show me a man's deeds and I will show you his faith." God Bless!
Faith and Works James 2:18
…17So too, faith by itself, if it is not complemented by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that, and shudder!…

 

[Sola Fide]

I see I touched a sore spot. When you pray to Mary you pray to a creature and not The Creator. You might as well pray to a tree.

 

[EndTimeWine]

I see I touched a sore spot. When you pray to Mary you pray to a creature and not The Creator. You might as well pray to a tree.

No sore spot for me, I do pray the Tree of Life pray for me and others. Proverbs 3:18

Blessed is He who Finds Wisdom
…17Her ways are pleasant ways And all her paths are peace. 18She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her, And happy are all who hold her fast. 19The LORD by wisdom founded the earth, By understanding He established the heavens.…

You know nothing of prophecy or scripture: Sirach1
Sirach 1:1–10

1 All wisdom comes from the Lord

and is with him for ever.

2 The sand of the sea, the drops of rain,

and the days of eternity—who can count them?

3 The height of heaven, the breadth of the earth,

the abyss, and wisdom—who can search them out?

4 Wisdom was created before all things,

and prudent understanding from eternity.c

6 The root of wisdom—to whom has it been revealed?

Her clever devices—who knows them?d

8 There is One who is wise, greatly to be feared,

sitting upon his throne.

9 The Lord himself created wisdom;e

he saw her and apportioned her,

he poured her out upon all his works.

10 She dwells with all flesh according to his gift,

and he supplied her to those who love him.

The Word created wisdom and apportioned upon man according to his gift.
Wisdom was the Words first work of creation as Mary is the Words first work of Christianity. As wisdom is by the Words side in heaven she had to be on earth. "ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN" Proverbs8:22
The Excellence of Wisdom
…21To endow those who love me with wealth, That I may fill their treasuries. 22"The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. 23"From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.…

Since Wisdom is apportioned upon man according to His Gift, what was the greatest gift given to anyone, and before any one else could receive that gift? The angel in his greeting said 'HAIL Mary, FULL OF GRACE= FULL OF WISDOM. Mary had to be purposed to receive Wisdom in FULL since she received God through His Son in full. Her Wisdom had to be in proportion to her GIFT, THE WORD INCARNATE. The fullness of Wisdom was given to her and it is through her apportioned upon men through Christ's WORK IN HER. Her soul MAGNIFIES THE LORD. Mary was purposed for Wisdom. 1Sirach, Proverbs and the Works of Solomon are prophecies concerning Wisdom being a She=Woman, the Woman of Genesis 3:15 PROPHECY=Mary, REV.12 Mary. You are obviously not aware of my threads, or prophecy. WISDOM who is the Tree of Life is Given form in Mary as the WORD is given form Through Christ. Yeshua has had Many Forms and titles in the OT but as the Christ...... in Mary that was purposed. Be careful as not to slander the Tree of Life, WISDOM , apportioned upon Mary in FULL= Mary is Wisdom. This happened at the Immaculate Conception= spotlessly clean conception, and Incarnation of Christ. God Bless!

 

[Sola Fide]

The Wisdom of Jesus, son of Sirach is, as surely you know, not canonical even in the Roman church. Rather, it is Apocrypha and, in the Roman church deutercanonical and the Council of Trent held that it is not to be used for doctrine. So to hang the doctrine of the divinity of Mary on a book written 200 years before her birth by a Hellenist and to personify Wisdom as a goddess is very dangerous for your soul so I will most certainly pray for you. Blessings and have a very Merry Christmas!

 

[EndTimeWine]

No sore spot for me, I do pray the Tree of Life pray for me and others. Proverbs 3:18

Blessed is He who Finds Wisdom
…17Her ways are pleasant ways And all her paths are peace. 18She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her, And happy are all who hold her fast. 19The LORD by wisdom founded the earth, By understanding He established the heavens.…

You know nothing of prophecy or scripture: Sirach1
Sirach 1:1–10

1 All wisdom comes from the Lord

and is with him for ever.

2 The sand of the sea, the drops of rain,

and the days of eternity—who can count them?

3 The height of heaven, the breadth of the earth,

the abyss, and wisdom—who can search them out?

4 Wisdom was created before all things,

and prudent understanding from eternity.c

6 The root of wisdom—to whom has it been revealed?

Her clever devices—who knows them?d

8 There is One who is wise, greatly to be feared,

sitting upon his throne.

9 The Lord himself created wisdom;e

he saw her and apportioned her,

he poured her out upon all his works.

10 She dwells with all flesh according to his gift,

and he supplied her to those who love him.

The Word created wisdom and apportioned upon man according to his gift.
Wisdom was the Words first work of creation as Mary is the Words first work of Christianity. As wisdom is by the Words side in heaven she had to be on earth. "ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN" Proverbs8:22
The Excellence of Wisdom
…21To endow those who love me with wealth, That I may fill their treasuries. 22"The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. 23"From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.…

Since Wisdom is apportioned upon man according to His Gift, what was the greatest gift given to anyone, and before any one else could receive that gift? The angel in his greeting said 'HAIL Mary, FULL OF GRACE= FULL OF WISDOM. Mary had to be purposed to receive Wisdom in FULL since she received God through His Son in full. Her Wisdom had to be in proportion to her GIFT, THE WORD INCARNATE. The fullness of Wisdom was given to her and it is through her apportioned upon men through Christ's WORK IN HER. Her soul MAGNIFIES THE LORD. Mary was purposed for Wisdom. 1Sirach, Proverbs and the Works of Solomon are prophecies concerning Wisdom being a She=Woman, the Woman of Genesis 3:15 PROPHECY=Mary, REV.12 Mary. You are obviously not aware of my threads, or prophecy. WISDOM who is the Tree of Life is Given form in Mary as the WORD is given form Through Christ. Yeshua has had Many Forms and titles in the OT but as the Christ...... in Mary that was purposed. Be careful as not to slander the Tree of Life, WISDOM , apportioned upon Mary in FULL= Mary is Wisdom. This happened at the Immaculate Conception= spotlessly clean conception, and Incarnation of Christ. God Bless!

Further more, The waters of life in which Wisdom is planted in flow from the throne of God and the Lamb.

The Wisdom of Jesus, son of Sirach is, as surely you know, not canonical even in the Roman church. Rather, it is Apocrypha and, in the Roman church deutercanonical and the Council of Trent held that it is not to be used for doctrine. So to hang the doctrine of the divinity of Mary on a book written 200 years before her birth by a Hellenist and to personify Wisdom as a goddess is very dangerous for your soul so I will most certainly pray for you. Blessings and have a very Merry Christmas!

 

[EndTimeWine]

This is taken from the Catholic revised version Bible. And say what you want Proverbs and the writings of Solomon state exactly as I said and they are prophetic words. God made her, the facts are the facts. And the Lord apportions her upon men according to their gifts. And it is in proverbs that she is revealed as a Tree of Life. And besides I am nondenominational I do not care what Protestant or Catholics say.

You say I personify Wisdom as a goddess , I am simply stating what scripture asserts. Take it or leave it. I eat of the TREE OF LIFE which is in the paradise of my GOD and Wisdom is apportioned upon me by Him, not of wisdom's own accord but by decree of the Lord. It is by my sincere love of the Father and doing His will that I am counted worthy of eternal life. You may still be expelled from the Garden but I am not, therefore eat of the TREE OF LIFE. so put aside Sirach 1 as all Protestants do and I am well aware of that fact. But you can NOT put aside Proverbs, The Wisdom of Solomon or Ecclesiastes or even what Ezekiel 28:

Ezekiel 28:11–19


A Lament over the King of Tyre

11 Moreover, the word of the Lord came to me: 12 z“Son of man, araise a lamentation over bthe king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord God:

“You were the signet of perfection,1

cfull of wisdom and dperfect in beauty.

13 You were in eEden, the garden of God;

fevery precious stone was your covering,

gsardius, topaz, and diamond,

beryl, onyx, and jasper,

sapphire,2 femerald, and carbuncle;

and crafted in gold were your settings

and your engravings.3

iOn the day that you were created

they were prepared.

14 You were an anointed jguardian cherub.

I placed you;4 you were on kthe holy mountain of God;

in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.

15 You were blameless in your ways

lfrom the day you were created,

till unrighteousness was found in you.

16 In the abundance of myour trade

you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned;

so I cast you as a profane thing from kthe mountain of God,

and I destroyed you,5 jO guardian cherub,

from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 nYour heart was proud because of oyour beauty;

you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor.

I cast you to the ground;

I exposed you before kings,

to feast their eyes on you.

18 By the multitude of your iniquities,

in the unrighteousness of your trade

you profaned your sanctuaries;

so pI brought fire out from your midst;

it consumed you,

and I turned you to ashes on the earth

qin the sight of all who saw you.

19 All who know you among the peoples

are appalled at you;

ryou have come to a dreadful end

and shall be no more forever.”

Wisdom is our signet or seal . This is the certification of our TRUE CHRISTIANITY. So, not surprising the offspring of Satan rejects Wisdom. The Harlot and her adulteries spawned the apostate Protestant offspring. Like Mother like daughter. The RCC lies about Mary and the Protestants reject her all together. Can not deny prophecy or the words of Christ in the our Father "On earth as it is in heaven". There are about 7.6 billion people on the planet and only 144,000 Rev. 14 have the knowledge I have. And the seal of the 144,00 0f every tribe of Israel Rev.7:4-8 is Wisdom. We know the seal is Wisdom because Ezekiel can not lie! I will pray for you to at least become the offspring of the Bride 12:17. We know the Bride is Not the Harlot of Rev.17-18 and we know it is NOT the Protestant denomination with its many sects because you are the apostate offspring of her adulteries. So I will pray for you and you have a Mary - Christ-Mass. The Bride will do for Israel and the world what Mary did, BRING FORTH THE MALE CHILD WHO WAS CAUGHT UP TO GOD AND HIS THRONE. "Who was caught up",( has already happen), so this bringing forth, is now in the soul! Rev 12. multifaceted! God Bless!

 

[BreadOfLife]

When the pope speaks of joining “Lutherans” at the Eucharist it is really a one way street. Many of the 227 Lutheran denominations in the USA alone (yes, there are that many, each with doctrines differing by varying degrees) would allow the pope the take communion in their church (some no doubt reluctantly). I would certainly give communion to the pope should he wander into my church. But the pope will not allow any Protestant to take communion from him. Protestants remain excommunicated from the Roman church. So, as I said, it’s a one way street and the ball is entirely in the pope’s court. Most of Luther’s criticism of the Roman church was entirely justified and many of his complaints have been resolved in Luther’s favor over the years. Last point: the “Lutheran World Federation” in no wise speaks for all Lutherans; many Lutheran churches shun it as far too liberal. So even if that body enters into some compact with the pope it would be irrelevant to many “Lutherans.”

Who told you this nonsense??
First of all - what is the "Roman" Church??

Secondly - only a Catholic can be excommunicated from the Catholic Church.

Finally - which of Luther's criticisms of the Catholic Church have been resolved in his favor??

 

[aspen]

Mary is not God or a god.

Mary is coredemptrix, as we are all called to be.

No Catholic doctrine teaches that Mary is God or a god

No educated Catholic member believes that Mary is God or a god

Strangely enough, only a tiny amount of Protestants are threatened by the Catholic Churches teachings on Mary, which they have misrepresented. It seems to speak loudly of their misunderstanding of the Christian future glorification through Christ.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Pope prays with Protestants"

hey, cut him some slack lol, Catholics have the "closet" concept all backwards anyway i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

[comment removed] i srsly doubt that the Protestant Institution is any different there wadr

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Problem is most are not born again and are under the new world order, Political Correct Marxist doctrine of mans works.
My nipper went to a RC School and the priest was just a worldly idiot, the first day he came and the first thing he said in the Church was straight out Satanic, he said in front of about 300 people, you are all Awesome ! you are all Awesome ha ha what a fool, I thought I am out of here, if I am awesome I don't need God, now do I. but then he said to turn to who was around you and say this rubbish to them and them to you.
I did not say or do such a thing and was thinking to go up and have a go at him, I hate when kids are been misled, because I have such coming to me with story's of being misled and it only works to destroy any faith they had.

I went and talked to this priest about his nonsense and he just lied saying everyone was awesome as in good Christians, well fact is I now most were not Christians at all and most did not believe in Jesus at all and I doubt that he brought one child to Christ.

I know that awesome is used everywhere nowadays but it was only used in my younger days as reverence to God and never anything other. this is another bastardisation of words nowadays being peddled by Satan.

 

[Taken]

You yourself praised your churches’ open communion, but I get the impression you would not ever want to share communion with a Catholic. Why would that be? Surely you know what the Bible has to say about bearing grudges, aren’t you?

Stranger has already impressed anyone already saved and born again can participate in Protestant Churches communion.
He didn't put a "condition" on Catholics.

Seems it would have been more impressive IF the Pope had INVITED Protestants into a Catholic Church for Protestants to SHARE in communion with Catholics in "their" Church.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Here's a quote from the Marian Sisters of Santa Rosa;

“The more the Holy Ghost finds Mary, His dear and inseparable spouse in any soul, the more active and mighty He becomes in producing Jesus Christ in that soul, and that soul in Jesus Christ.”
- St. Louis Marie de Montfort

Yes, Mary worship still exists in a very big way.
Don't be deceived by Catholics posing as reconstructed Christians.

 

[APAK]

As recently as in the last 25 years or so ‘the church’ of the RCC even wanted to make this ridiculous concept of Co-redemptrix a formal dogma of their religion. It is a dangerous concept.

Co-redemptrix was always a controversial subject since its inception before the RCC was established in the 4th century. It is a false teaching that Mary accepted and willingly, God’s offer of being conceived with child, and amongst other things it is believed she suffered with Jesus to the cross, and in his death. This is very dangerous ground to be on if this ‘church’ is speaking of Mary participating in one’s salvation. It is a pagan concept true and true where it can nullify Jesus work on the cross.

This concept diluted and even nullifies the power and purpose of God and the suffering that Jesus alone experienced. It added controversy into what God and Jesus both accomplished when Mary is stuck in the mix; it is a mockery to both Jesus and God.

These 'good' Catholic folks evidentially didn’t get the memo and took it too far from Co-redemptix to adoration. They are idolizing Mary, as they do all over the world. They have no clue that that Mary is ONLY Co-redemptix. If the Catholic leadership were even a bit concerned they would stop this idol worship. They are a major source of confusion and controversy to keep its masses in line as ‘good’ RCC people.



APAK

 

[bbyrd009]

Don't remove an ancient boundary stone that was set up by your ancestors

 

[APAK]

Don't remove an ancient boundary stone that was set up by your ancestors

Yea..all heck would break out...

 

[bbyrd009]

Yea..all heck would break out...

our secular governments are all working OT to remove boundary stones, should tell one all they need to know i guess

 

[APAK]

like the true 'universal' body Christ was hijacked by the centralized Roman 'universal' body of Christ ...then like today where all religions including all 'Christian' denominations and the RCC Universal 'church' and other non-Christian religions transformed into a one world 'universal' 'church' of world believers ran by world 'Rome'(not necessarily the literal Rome). Talk about hijacking the word 'universal' into two others meanings over time...RCC then one world religion

APAK