Pope wants to change the Lord's Prayer

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mjrhealth

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So why is it easier for some people to speak about ministers being called to the ministry or following their calling, but when it comes to the Vatican, the same people act as if cardinals and the Pope have nothing to do with God?
Just because a man call himself pastor, or prophet has no bearing as to whether he was called or not, in fact if he was, he would know better and would not carry a tile, and since Penetecost, they pretty much became obsolete, but men prefer to follow men than Christ.
 
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aspen

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Simple, because the catholic church is an easy target with its traditions and doctrines that are as un-biblical as one can possibly get.

Yet, the entire Bible is read during Mass in the Catholic Church?
 

aspen

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I am not an apologist for the Vatican and i am not interested in derailing this thread - we have enough of that on this board
 
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mjrhealth

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In fact. in my Job. i am payed for as a broadcast engineer, yet I am not qualified as an engineer. Two of the people who I work with are qualified engineers yet I and my mate who has, like me being doing this for over 25 years, actually have to teach them, but that is the way it is in Gods kingdom, Reading books counts for little, experience is His qualifier
 
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tabletalk

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It's above my pay grade. And, to be in the spotlight so to speak, where one's every word and action is scrutinized and judged, no thanks. I ain't even Catholic. But I am against anti-catholics. For they are in essence not much different and certainly no better IMO.

EDIT: I worded that wrong LOL. Protestants are in essence not much different and certainly no better. Anti-catholics, are well ... Let's just say, they have some maturing to do.


Personally, having read the article, I don't see it as such a big deal.

Tempt ; Test ; Prove : similar but different.


How about "anti-Catholic Church"? Not, anti-catholic people.
 
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101G

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In case someone is living under a rock:

Matthew 6:13 KJV
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

James said:
James 1:13 KJV
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

A quick note on that verse: in context God does not tempt with evil. It also never says He doesn't lead people into temptation. Perhaps you may think I am splitting hairs, but consider these two verses:

Matthew 4:1 KJV
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

Genesis 22:1 KJV
And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am .

So the spirit led Jesus to be tempted and God did tempt Abraham.

Good Post. I read the post and saw the problem with the pope. he said, "In English and similarly in Italian, the prayer asks God to "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil." But, says Francis, it's not the Lord that tempts.". that's the problem, he don't understand that to be tempt can be for righteousness.

example, in Matthew 4:1 above the Spirit/God lead the Lord Jesus into the wilderness. not into temptation, but into the "wilderness". WHY? because nothing is in the wilderness. God put the Lord FLESH on a FAST so that he could overcome his own flesh which is an example to us. not to cater to the flesh. what God did lead the lord Jesus to victory, he God DELIVERED him from EVIL.

Just as in Abraham case. God led Abraham to a specify mountain, not just any mountain, but to a specify mountain where God had a RAM IN THE BUSH waiting to replace his Son Issac with. see God lead us to victory. and in that leading he deliver us from all "evil". this is why men like the Pope, if you believe them will change the truth into a LIE, Romans 1:25. but lets get the context here. Romans 1:21-31 "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them".

Peace in Christ Yeshua.
 

DPMartin

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Thought this was interesting.... For the record, I'm against it.

Pope Francis Suggests Changing The Words To The 'Lord's Prayer'


by just the first few sentences in his statements it doesn't seem what he is saying is correct. surly one can argue the translations, but why is it an issue now, and not 400 years ago even farther back if you are talking Latin translations.

God isn't a tempter of evil, that is for sure. but that doesn't mean He doesn't tempt.


Gen_22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.


so the man that holds the title of pope, is a leader of those who don't know the scriptures.
 

EndTimeWine

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'"Lead us not INTO temptation, but deliver us from evil ", He leads us to stand before satan who test and tries us. The fire of the Holy Spirit rebukes him. This is refinement by fire. This proves the gold. Ones strength is not manifest without it. The Lord's prayer is asking we not be lead astray, and always to be delivered from evil. Temptation must come.

Matthew 18:7-8Revised Standard Version (RSV)
7 “Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the man by whom the temptation comes! 8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life maimed or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.

We must hear the words prayerfully in the Spirit. Leading us leads to being tempted. For it is not the sinner who is tempted but the faithful, temptation can not be avoided, because sin is in the world. Being lead by the Spirit does not mean being lead INTO temptation, which is an entering=into, not a standing before but, a taking in, and we are to pray not to be taken in. The prayer is as such and can not be touched as it is. It is Blasphemy!, what the Pope asserts. He has NOT the HOLY SPIRIT therefore misinterprets the meaning. The Lord was lead into the desert to be tempted of the devil not lead INTO temptation. He was lead by the Spirit, which is the Holy Spirit which went before Him, hence was lead by. The desert is a symbolism for the world which for a Christian is a desert= barren and without life. There is NO spiritual nourishment in the world. We must confront the world with the Holy Spirit with the trust that He who is within us is greater than he who is in the world. For Christ is the KINGDOM, THE POWER and THE GLORY FOREVER AMEN!
 
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Helen

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Where is the scripture that states we are called to be "vicars of Christ"? The term means "in place of", and as far as I can tell, the only thing that replaced Jesus on earth is the Holy Spirit, not you or anyone else.

Rev 1:6 "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father; to Him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

1 Peter 2:9
"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light.."
 

EndTimeWine

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Rev 1:6 "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father; to Him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

1 Peter 2:9
"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light.."
Yeah, for those who are. The Pope is not chosen by God.
 
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EndTimeWine

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"Lead us not INTO temptation, but deliver us from evil ", He leads us to stand before satan who test and tries us. The fire of the Holy Spirit rebukes him. This is refinement by fire. This proves the gold. Ones strength is not manifest without it. The Lord's prayer is asking we not be lead astray, and always to be delivered from evil. Temptation must come.

Matthew 18:7-8Revised Standard Version (RSV)
7 “Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the man by whom the temptation comes! 8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life maimed or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.

We must hear the words prayerfully in the Spirit. Leading us leads to being tempted. For it is not the sinner who is tempted but the faithful, temptation can not be avoided, because sin is in the world. Being lead by the Spirit does not mean being lead INTO temptation, which is an entering=into, not a standing before but, a taking in, and we are to pray not to be taken in. The prayer is as such and can not be touched as it is.

It is Blasphemy!, what the Pope asserts. He has NOT the HOLY SPIRIT therefore misinterprets the meaning. The Lord was lead into the desert to be tempted of the devil not lead INTO temptation. He was lead by the Spirit, which is the Holy Spirit which went before Him, hence was lead by. The desert is a symbolism for the world which for a Christian is a desert= barren and without life. There is NO spiritual nourishment in the world. We must confront the world with the Holy Spirit with the trust that He who is within us is greater than he who is in the world. For Christ is the KINGDOM, THE POWER and THE GLORY FOREVER AMEN!
The problem is NOT the prayer but the Pope . He misinterprets
because he has Not the Holy Spirit.
 

aspen

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So Satan is required for our salvation? We were meant to eat the fruit? God told us not to eat the fruit, setting us up to do it, and punishes us for eating it? Sounds like an abusive father to me, not God....

Perhaps this is why so many Christians talk about Satan so much....

Guess you have an answer for Jesus when he asked “"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead?”, right EndTimeWine?

As for Christianity, there is no place for dualism.
 
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EndTimeWine

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So Satan is required for our salvation? We were meant to eat the fruit? God told us not to eat the fruit, setting us up to do it, and punishing us for doing it? Sounds like an abusive father to me, not God....

Perhaps this is why so many Christians talk about Satan so much....

Guess you have an answer for Jesus when he asked “"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead?”, right EndTimeWine?

As for Christianity, there is no place for dualism.
Your problem is not with me but the Word. Key phrase "aspen" He who is within us is greater than he who is in the world."
 

aspen

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Your problem is not with me but the Word. Key phrase "aspen" He who is within us is greater than he who is in the world."

It must be self satisfying dismissing posts without considering what the person is communicating. You can have your dualism...I will follow Christ
 

EndTimeWine

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"aspen" who leads and guides you as you confront the world? Are we called to be in the world but not of it? And Why? Who is in the world?And why must we be lead by the Spirit to confront it. If you are of the world you are of temptation, RIGHT? So, those who are of the world are INTO temptation, RIGHT? And therefore TRY to lead the faithful into to it too, RIGHT?
 

FHII

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So Satan is required for our salvation? We were meant to eat the fruit? God told us not to eat the fruit, setting us up to do it, and punishes us for eating it? Sounds like an abusive father to me, not God....

Perhaps this is why so many Christians talk about Satan so much....

Guess you have an answer for Jesus when he asked “"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead?”, right EndTimeWine?

As for Christianity, there is no place for dualism.
I am a bit confused Aspen. Earlier posts by you seemed to indicate you had no problem with, "lead us not into tempation..."

Are you changing your mind on that?