Post your favorite UR verse for inspection

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,594
3,897
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Am accepting of Jesus payment of sin; and allowing us sinners through him to become renewed in the knowledge of God. From what I see from revelation; just as hell was two compartments for paradise, and prison. The heavenly realm is pictured to have two compartments, inside and outside. This where the final destination is for everyone at death; resurrected to a realm one has never been to except those who have died. A hope to go there is mine to, and maybe help those in darkness but idk.
Good post, thanks.
Here's some good news. The gates of the New Jerusalem will always be open.
And those put outside initially were only missing their wedding garments.

Revelation 21:25 NIV
On no day will its gates ever be shut...

Revelation 22:14 NIV
“Blessed are those who wash their robes,
that they may have the right to the tree of life
and may go through the gates into the city.
But the world has been reconciled already; just now down to a decision to make.
AMEN

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything,
as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,594
3,897
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I can't believe you are not seeing what I'm saying!
I see it just fine. I think you are misappropriating "in Christ" in this situation.
The comparative is between ALL in Adam and ALL in Christ.
Whatever you apply to Adam needs to also be applied to Christ.
Since ALL died in Adam, ALL will be made alive in Christ.
It doesn't say SOME.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2021
2,283
1,283
113
68
Monroe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you by the Spirit of Christ have the ability to access emulate Christ through you who is the image and expression of God which comes by and through the holy spirit of God and the Father is there to help those whom ask to be helped by the spirit now as adopted Children, are you not now spiritually in relationship with God and are now today in the original state where God desired for people to be before the fall?

Only waiting upon for death to leave here and go there to the heavenly realm resurrected and Be with the family of believers in the kingdom of God, which outside of the kingdom there are outsiders there, symbolic of the death of Christ on the cross. Staying in the darkness as it is what they wants, and God gives them to their desires. Perhaps those in the kingdom can go out and help, idk. It would give people something to do, for the Lord?

Matthew, we are not on the same page here!

When you use the phrase "the world is reconciled" you are explaining the reconciliation of man. when I use that same phrase, I'm speaking of a much broader reconciliation, the world.

There is a difference in the "reconciling of man" and the "reconciling of the world."

This is what I'm referring to when I use the phrase "the reconciling of the world."

Rom. 8: 18-23
"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

For the earnest expectation of the creature (creation) waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

For the creature (creation) was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

Because the creature (creation) itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."


Paul is telling us here that all of creation will come into harmony with God at the resurrection. That includes man, animal life, plant life, even the cursed ground from the fall. All of creation has been cursed from sin. But will be reconciled at the resurrection.

This is the meaning of Colossians 1:20
"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."

But this does not mean that all men are reconciled to God, that is by choice, unlike the rest of creation.

We know this because the unreconciled are cast into the Lake of Fire.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amigo de christo

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2021
2,283
1,283
113
68
Monroe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I see it just fine. I think you are misappropriating "in Christ" in this situation.
The comparative is between ALL in Adam and ALL in Christ.
Whatever you apply to Adam needs to also be applied to Christ.
Since ALL died in Adam, ALL will be made alive in Christ.
It doesn't say SOME.

Took a short nap and ready to go again, Brother.

I am applying death to death in Adam and I am applying Life to Life in Christ.

It is NOT all men that receive life IN CHRIST, Steven. That is a choice of man. Death in Adam was no choice.

We plainly see the choice of LIFE IN CHRIST being rejected, and cast into the Lake of Fire.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amigo de christo

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,594
3,897
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Chadrho said:

There's no need to apologize. I understood what you explained. We disagree, which is fine.
Yes, it's fine with me also.
Back to my question about the resolution of these questions.
Just because we disagree doesn't give you the green light to declare some sort of victory,
or to CONTINUE claiming that UR has NO biblical foundation, right?
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2021
2,283
1,283
113
68
Monroe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Chadrho said:

There's no need to apologize. I understood what you explained. We disagree, which is fine.

Back to my question about the resolution of these questions.
Just because we disagree doesn't give you the green light to declare some sort of victory,
or to CONTINUE claiming that UR has NO biblical foundation, right?

Not right! I've already claimed victory in this thread, let's just keep talking over the verses and you will sooner or later see it for yourself.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amigo de christo

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,594
3,897
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is NOT all men that receive life IN CHRIST, Steven. That is a choice of man. Death in Adam was no choice.
This is what the Age of restoration is all about.
As you recall, EVERY knee will bow, and EVERY tongue acknowledge (confess) that Jesus Christ is Lord.
On earth, in heaven, and under the earth. (in the realm of the dead)
Who is missing? That would be EVERYONE and EVERYWHERE.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2021
2,283
1,283
113
68
Monroe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is what the Age of restoration is all about.
As you recall, EVERY knee will bow, and EVERY tongue acknowledge (confess) that Jesus Christ is Lord.
On earth, in heaven, and under the earth. (in the realm of the dead)
Who is missing? That would be EVERYONE and EVERYWHERE.

Restoration is not just about man, Steven! It includes fallen animal life, fallen plant life, even the cursed fallen ground.

This is the restoration of all things, and I intend to prove it.

Just keep the verses coming, we have much more to discuss on restoration, which will be revealed if you just keep 'em coming.
 
  • Like
Reactions: St. SteVen

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,594
3,897
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Not right! I've already claimed victory in this thread,
What's that famous quote: "It ain't over, 'til it's over." - Yogi Berra

let's just keep talking over the verses and you will sooner or later see it for yourself.
Just to be clear, I understand your position perfectly.
We need to work on you. And I don't expect you to agree, only to FINALLY understand.
I would greatly appreciate that effort on your part. I would consider THAT a victory.
I'm only asking you to meet us half way. Is that too much to ask?
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2021
2,283
1,283
113
68
Monroe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What's that famous quote: "It ain't over, 'til it's over." - Yogi Berra


Just to be clear, I understand your position perfectly.
We need to work on you. And I don't expect you to agree, only to FINALLY understand.
I would greatly appreciate that effort on your part. I would consider THAT a victory.
I'm only asking you to meet us half way. Is that too much to ask?

No, it's not to much to ask! There are some things I don't understand about your view of UR.

We can help clarify our positions as we move along on these verses.
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,594
3,897
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
People are damned forever and I challenge you to prove otherwise!
From post #18. cc: @Patrick1966

Jesus teaches that it is godly behavior to love our enemies.
Does God hold himself to a lower standard than he holds us to?
Incinerating your enemies for all eternity with no hope of escape is NOT love.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2021
2,283
1,283
113
68
Monroe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
From post #18. cc: @Patrick1966

Jesus teaches that it is godly behavior to love our enemies.
Does God hold himself to a lower standard than he holds us to?
Incinerating your enemies for all eternity with no hope of escape is NOT love.

LOL, this is the standard UR, "rational discussion" that they like to sideline with!

I've already told you how I feel about "rational discussions" with the UR.

Give me another one of your favorite UR verses and we will have some real discussion.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,958
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Matthew, we are not on the same page here!

When you use the phrase "the world is reconciled" you are explaining the reconciliation of man. when I use that same phrase, I'm speaking of a much broader reconciliation, the world.

There is a difference in the "reconciling of man" and the "reconciling of the world."

This is what I'm referring to when I use the phrase "the reconciling of the world."

Rom. 8: 18-23
"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

For the earnest expectation of the creature (creation) waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

For the creature (creation) was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

Because the creature (creation) itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."


Paul is telling us here that all of creation will come into harmony with God at the resurrection. That includes man, animal life, plant life, even the cursed ground from the fall. All of creation has been cursed from sin. But will be reconciled at the resurrection.

This is the meaning of Colossians 1:20
"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."

But this does not mean that all men are reconciled to God, that is by choice, unlike the rest of creation.

We know this because the unreconciled are cast into the Lake of Fire.
Hello Charlie, was just wondering about the question that I asked but it’s okay if you don’t wanna answer it.

I believe the whole world has been indeed reconciled to God; so please just ask me questions rather than assumptions.

The sin of mankind was for once and since the resurrection the cross and the resurrection have been made known; to those who are not unlearned, to decide to either become part of the Heavenly kingdom or to stay out of it for no desire for God.


“for not again ourselves do we recommend to you, but we are giving occasion to you of glorifying in our behalf, that ye may have [something] in reference to those glorifying in face and not in heart; for whether we were beside ourselves, [it was] to God; whether we be of sound mind — [it is] to you, for the love of the Christ doth constrain us, having judged thus: that if one for all died, then the whole died, and for all he died, that those living, no more to themselves may live, but to him who died for them, and was raised again. So that we henceforth have known no one according to the flesh, and even if we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know him no more; so that if any one [is] in Christ — [he is] a new creature; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things. And the all things [are] of God, who reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and did give to us the ministration of the reconciliation, how that God was in Christ — a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation,”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5‬:‭12‬-‭19‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Revelation 21:8​

New International Version​

8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”


Revelation 22:15​

New International Version​

15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Also I’m not so sure how much we really know about the heavenly realm, or the lake of fire to make definite stances, we can ponder and wonders and decide for ourselves between oneself and God.

John suggests to me people living outside the kingdom in my opinion but others differ greatly and that is understandable, best to allow them to let God work on their hearts and minds cause I can not.
 
Last edited:

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,197
4,958
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Restoration is not just about man, Steven! It includes fallen animal life, fallen plant life, even the cursed fallen ground.

This is the restoration of all things, and I intend to prove it.

Just keep the verses coming, we have much more to discuss on restoration, which will be revealed if you just keep 'em coming.

It’s only by faith that you make the choice assume these things will be but you won’t never know what is gonna be in store for you; or what heaven could be like other than speculation. There is only knowing of rewards and treasure and a house which I believe is the spiritual body given by God after this life but everything is there I can only speculate what is on my heart.


1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written: “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him.”
 

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,594
3,897
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Give me another one of your favorite UR verses and we will have some real discussion.
This one differentiates between "all people" and "those who believe." (currently)
Stating that "the living God" is "the Savior of all people". (and especially those who believe)

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chadrho

Chadrho

Active Member
Sep 4, 2019
176
157
43
51
East Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So, rational discussion is sidelining?
While preferring irrational interpretation?

That looks like a diversionary tactic. If you can't rationally explain how eternal damnation makes sense given the nature of God, then declair that rationality is at fault. The next thing you know, love is really hatred, and being a recipient of grace means you're special.
 
  • Love
Reactions: St. SteVen

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,594
3,897
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That looks like a diversionary tactic. If you can't rationally explain how eternal damnation makes sense given the nature of God, then declair that rationality is at fault. The next thing you know, love is really hatred, and being a recipient of grace means you're special.
Right. (I think you meant "declare") Sorry. I'm the spellcheck bandit.
It doesn't HAVE to make sense if you can prove it from the Bible. - LOL
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Chadrho

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2021
2,283
1,283
113
68
Monroe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So, rational discussion is sidelining?
While preferring irrational interpretation?

It's second guessing God! Such nonsense as "would a loving God torture man forever" is not rational behavior,

You call that "rational discussion?" I call it stupidity! All of your reasoning will not change what God has said.