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Featured Power of prognostication

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by lforrest, Nov 13, 2020.

  1. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    I've heard certain Charasmatic say you shouldn't prognosticate. By listening to a doctor's prognosis for example you could forgo any chance of God performing miracles to heal. So... anyone else hear about this?
     
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  2. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I haven't heard this exact thing, but it seems to me to fit with that sort of doctrine, declare your healing, declare your prosperity, so by the same token, don't speak negativity into existance. And that's my problem with it, as if words contained power. Before I became a Christian that was what we called witchcraft.

    Much love!
     
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  3. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    I don't think I have heard it but at one time I believed it...I use the story of the 12 spies...10 came back with a bad report and 2 with a good report...who's report are you going to believe.
    But a devastating event in our church family happened 2 years ago and we stood on our faith in Him to heal this boy. Prayer vigils and chains all over the world....he even started responding when they had said he was brain dead....you don't fight and kick against the nurses when brain dead....then the doctor ordered and MRI scan and his report was that the part of the brain that sustains life was dead...and then proceeded to give them no hope of ever waking up....and then asked if they would donate his organs. (That really smelled like a rat...taking advantage of the situation)...when I got the call that they signed the dnr and had him taken off life support I was screaming nooooo give God a chance...he was giving us signs...don't believe the doctors report.
    But he died and his organs are now living in 4 young children.
    I wrestled with God over this for 2 weeks...He said his days were numbered...the day he was born it was already known the day he would die. He also rebuked me because I never sought His Will on the matter...just demanded healing. I am still learning....it's hard to understand how some receive miraculous healings and others don't.
     
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  4. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    I hadn't planned on posting about this until I came back, but Marks is correct here. It's the crux of the problem for many of the "prophets" who said Trump would win in 2020. I'm now realizing that most of them were not actually prophesying anything in the true sense of predicting something based on a genuine vision, dream, or utterance. What they were actually doing is just "exercising their faith" by attempting to "speak" things into existence. This is why they appear to be blaming their followers when the things they say don't come to pass. It is presumably their following's fault for not having enough faith to believe the "prophecy" into reality. What they needed to tell their followers was to be PRAYING incessantly, understanding the danger, not simply placing their faith in a carnal, uninspired "prophecy."

    I was watching this guy a few days ago when it dawned on me that's what's going on. He's actually making the argument, based on the above theology, that the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was to some extent actually Abraham's fault, because he didn't believe God and stand in faith so that Sodom's judgment could be averted. By this reasoning, so long as there is one believer left in the earth, the church could stand in faith for the Antichrist to be held back in perpetuity. It's a ridiculous theology, as if man can prevent the judgments of God forever. It essentially places man on the throne instead of the Lord.

    This guy also uses the argument Heart2Soul was talking about with the 12 spies. I'm sure there is more - I have only been able to weather the first 15 minutes - but under the above definition of what "prophecy" is, one could prophesy anything under the sun and still claim to be a true "prophet or apostle," because they can claim that they faithfully spoke the "prophetic word." It was the church's fault for not placing their faith in it and "believing" it into existence.

    It's essentially faith theology applied to prophecy. No small wonder it's now being exposed as fraudulent and flesh-driven, rather than Spirit-breathed and Spirit-led.

     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
  5. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    Yea something definitely going on with some of them, but not all of them. I do believe God is working, wait and see.
     
  6. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Prognosticate, Extrapolate, Anticipate, -- All good words in a world where we "see though a glass darkly". And so it seems between two choices of, either assembling information to some logical outcome; or going blithely unaware through life as a reed blowing in the wind; -- it seems GOD calls us to prepare for calm (red sky night) or prepare for storm (red sky morning).

    And not every "weather forecaster" is trustworthy ... but many are!
    Bobby Jo :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
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  7. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    "Vision, dream, or utterance", -- ummmmmm, he cited his own "dream", and I cite Scripture, both to the same result. And so I don't doubt, but instead bear witness, -- maybe not to other topics which he may or may not have spoken --, but certainly to the core aspect of Trump's Election and Second Term of Office. :)

    Bobby Jo
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
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  8. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    I believe we should distinguish between medical prognosis and prognostication (predicting the future or attempting to do so).

    If a doctor is unable to provide a prognosis (based on the evidence he has) then he is not much of a doctor. But prognosticators are essentially speculators, who are trying to be prophets based on current events or signs.

    Bible prophecy already gives us a broad outline of future events. But no one has all the details, and no one can set dates.
     
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  9. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Agree / Disagree

    And where I AGREE, Scripture confirms that "we see through a glass darkly". But of course some choose not to "see through a glass darkly", they close their eyes to INCOMPLETE information because it's not COMPLETE information??? -- Who in their right mind would live in a flood zone and then ignore torrential rains being forecast, just because there wasn't a number of "Feet" cited for the rise of the river?!?

    And where I DISAGREE, most people don't know where we sit with regards to timing, and then presume that nobody knows that timing. And where they could ask the basis and make an INFORMED decision, they don't, -- whether due to pride, arrogance, jealousy, envy, or whatever --, they are content not to look through the glass AT ALL: -- I SEE NOTHING, I SEE NOTHING. Sgt. Shultz, "Hogan's Heros"


    But as for me, I need all the information I can gather, including Posts from fellow Forum Members too numerous to cite, but include @APAK, @DancesWithGnostics, @Grailhunter, @Heart2Soul, @lforrest, @pompadour @rjs330, @WaterSong -- and even YOU! :rolleyes:

    Bobby Jo
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
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  10. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    In my early 30s, I incurred severe damage to one of my 'side of the knee tendons' , forget the technical name. It was blown whilst playing soccer. I got karate kicked....suddenly fell on my back, spread out, smelling the freshly cut grass of the pitch, in full pain.

    Initially, I had it checked out and the docs recommended surgery etc....for whatever reason I believe Christ or one of his angels influenced my mind and I decided no surgery and no horse pills to even alleviate the pain.

    I got called every week for two months saying if I did not get a scope interior knee check at least, and then the surgery my knee and thus leg would never recover and support me over time......

    Well, I completely ignored all the so-called medical experts and began my own regiment of healing.

    Could not move my leg laterally although forward and backwards was ok. So I walked as straight forward as I could with a bulging knee every day for at least 6 month and slowing the major tendon healed..I guess creating scar tissue in the process.

    Today, this leg is strong as it was before the accident....maybe when the cold really hits I can get a dull ache in that part of my knee...

    In my experience, most medical folks today are more like mechanical device and systems technicians out to make money....to give you periodic maintenance checkups that sometimes are not even necessary. Feed you will useless and even dangerous drugs. The local garage maintenance technician pays more attention to my vehicle that a doctor does to my body and my welfare....

    APAK

    ,
     
  11. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    I agree...Medical Professionals are about the only profession you pay to give you bad news...
     
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  12. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    I tell people all the time, -- I don't like Doctors, Hospitals, Surgery, Medications; but I don't mind the nurses so much. :p

    Bobby Jo
     
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  13. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    It's like this kind of movement is demanding things of God. They grab onto one or 2 verses and make a whole doctrine out of it. This was the very first (outside of Lutheran) Church outside of a Catholic Church I ever attended :eek: I knew right away that they were off. Felt uncomfortable, unfed, unedified, and, IMHO...the Praise and Worship was sorely lacking any kind of awe or majesty. God pulled me out of there after about 1 and a half years and, I started attending an Assemblies of God Church and...loved it there for a time.
    I felt bad for the ones who were all caught up in it and never did get healed.
    I think what is truly lacking is..."Your will be done Father".
    In Him,
    nancy
     
  14. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    When God speaks how can his words not come to pass?

    Prophecy comes in different ways, but when it comes any way but God Speaking perhaps that is the situation that is subject to our faith.
     
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  15. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    I'm aware of what's up in Pennsylvania. Things may turn back towards Trump, which will likely infuriate the Left beyond belief, and lead to all the trouble. But the question is, will he be able to overturn enough to retain the Presidency. He would also have to win the recount in Georgia (possible), and then overturn something like Michigan.

    I think it's still going to be too little, too late, though he may scare the daylights out of the Left one more time before it's over.

    Btw, I'm also aware of the vision that man received about the State of Pennsylvania. Unfortunately I think he is misinterpreting it.
     
  16. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    I hadn't intended to make this another election thread.
     
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  17. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Not a problem. I hadn't intended to be posting for long. Mostly just bounced in to post some music I'm into, and then comment on this.
     
  18. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Ok, now this is different. Since I last posted, I've been sort of searching around to see who prophesied what, and none of them struck me as having much authority. But Charlie Shamp is on a different level, and I was not aware of the visions he mentions here. The trouble is the following two things, which came up in what Selveraj prophesied as well:

    1. The outcome depends on if the church prays or not, and
    2. There is an uncertainty about what the words "Trump will triumph" mean. Shamp mentions an unsureness about what is meant by the words just like Selveraj did. They could simply mean Trump ends up being vindicated for challenging the election, but not that he necessarily wins. The latter is dependent on what the church does (watch from the beginning). The former is prophesied without qualification.

    Anyway, what he states from 15:56 - 19:48 witnesses as being genuine prophecy. I won't transcribe it yet, but maybe later.



    Not only does Shamp have a very strong track record, but this prophecy also appears to be confirmed by the other dream I mentioned being aware of regarding the state of Pennsylvania (10:25 - 11:58):



    This one I transcribed already. The wording is as follows:

    "I had been in prayer in my bedroom, and I had been praying in the Spirit; praying in tongues. Petitioning the Lord for clarity, not so that I could say 'I got the word,' but I just really feel like the church needs some direction... and so, in prayer after about an hour or so, I went into an open vision... The first thing that I saw is, I saw these steps coming downhill, and the first thing that I saw in the vision was I saw a white robe, and feet, and they were bare feet but they were bright, I mean just shining, golden-brass bright... and He was walking down these steps... and I heard the voice of the Lord... 'As I said to you before, so say I again. Watch Pennsylvania, particularly Philadelphia. And what I said to the church of Philadelphia in the Book of Revelation, so say I to My church in this season, about the city of Philadelphia and the nation in the days ahead.'"

    He references the passage in Revelation. Here it is:

    7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith He that is Holy, He that is True, He that hath the key of David, He that opens, and no man shuts; and shuts, and no man opens; 8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name. 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of My endurance, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12 Him that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him My new name. 13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

    This prophecy in Revelation is about the church in Philadelphia having gone through Hell in the form of persecution, until they have very little strength left to persevere. But His promise to them is about Heaven, and that they will be rewarded in eternity for staying faithful to him...

    I'm working through all this atm, but I find it very interesting...

    @Prayer Warrior. I know you are praying, and my apologies if I have seemed overly pessimistic about the church in America praying enough to turn the tide in Trump's favor. This is based on what I have seen happen elsewhere. The church in Australia was warned to pray for their situation, and they unfortunately did NOT do so, and my fear has been that the American church will likewise make the same mistake. But there is still a chance, so I wanted to say God bless you in your efforts.

    @Josho. I know you keep track of Charlie Shamp, so I thought you might be interested in this post as well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
  19. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    I watched that episode on Sid Roth's program. I was in agreement in most of what he said. The only thing I considered and am praying and meditating on is the church age. I believe we are in Lodeaceia the seventh church age.
    But I welcome any correction.
    I am a bit worn out with prophets saying that judgment has come to America...Judgment first begins at the House of the Lord...and with all the anti-Christian political agendas....and politicians rising up against Christianity then this could very well be our judgment coming upon us for allowing the enemy to gain so much power in our society....beginning with ending prayer in schools in the 70s...and it kept getting worse thereafter.
    Judgment on America happens simultaneously along with other nations...especially those who stood up against Israel. America is still blessed because we have blessed Israel...
    But there will come a president who will turn this nation against her. Obama had started by funded Israel's enemies.
    Then will America be cursed and judgment come upon her along with the other nations who rise up against Israel.
     
  20. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    @Heart2Soul The letters to the seven churches of Asia in Revelation are very relevant, referring especially to the church. Lukewarmness as in Laodicea is the bane of materialism...
     
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