Practical Righteousness Corner

[Cassandra]

I mean, it sounds very good and spiritual. But how does this actually play out, for example, when you are tempted to sin? Does God just take over and force you not to?

What an excellent question!!!!♥

 

[APAK]

What an excellent question!!!!♥

Of course the answer is a resounding no. If one is tempted to sin, to real sin, 'we' and the spirit of Christ within us moves to cause its resistance and disappearance, every time! I include 'we' as we are now a part of this decision process, as a new believer within Christ. And over time, as we gain spiritual experience and knowledge, we will not see ourselves as just one spirit, and only in a spirit of the Christ. We will automatically acknowledge and KNOW that we and the spirit of the new seed have conquered it within our heart, together AS ONE SPIRIT. It will then be par for the course as they say.

 

[Nancy]

A brief video promoting Scripture over Calvinism, addressing TULIP.

Awesome find my sister. You and I were just talking about this and you sure did what you said, you made a thread! Girlfriend is on fire! Holy Spirit FIRE! Lol.
xo

 

[Nancy]

Gotta love Bereans!

 

[APAK]

Awesome find my sister. You and I were just talking about this and you sure did what you said, you made a thread! Girlfriend is on fire! Holy Spirit FIRE! Lol.
xo

This young fella is seriously misinformed about most issues he presents in his video, including his misunderstanding of the word of God. He definitely has an bone to pick with a clear agenda.

And he even believes that those who are being saved by God today, who also believe they cannot be unsaved are all part of 'the OSAS doctrine' invented by Calvin.

Now that's whopper I've not heard of before.

So Calvin was the first man alive and first to write down and believe that true salvation given by God was for ever. It was also believed by the writers of the NT even, if actually bothered to read entire scripture sections or passages to find out.

I would be very interested in hearing his personal testimony of how he 'received' God into his heart. It would be telling, if he did at all.

I would not place any faith in this speaker....2 Tim 4:3-4 comes to mind.

 

[Lambano]

I may be starting to understand why many people will reject any objections to Eternal Security and don't seem to care whether it's biblical or not.

Perseverance of the Saints IS grounded in the Bible, and any serious book or website dedicated to Calvinist theology will give you a long list of verses supporting it. And any serious Arminian book or website will give you a long string of verses highlighting the dangers of Apostacy and the need for personal effort. I personally found Robert Picirilli's Grace, Faith, and Free Will to be helpful in explaining the eternal battle between the Remonstrants and the followers of John Calvin from both sides.

This objection that the doctrine of Perseverance is a license for sin is a strawman argument. Any serious Calvinist will tell you that living a life characterized by unrepentant sin is evidence that the person has not been spiritually regenerated and has no reason to be confident they are one of the Elect. And if you're not one of the Elect, you have NO hope whatsoever of salvation.

 

[Lambano]

If you were taught your whole life that its impossible to stop sinning, then justification by faith alone seems like the only way to really know that you are saved. It can't be on any personal basis because if it was, we'd be condemned and unqualified.

Is it possible to stop sinning? I come from the Methodist tradition (where it's called "Entire Sanctification"), and John Wesley thought so, though much is made of the fact that he never claimed to have achieved it himself. Along the same lines, a brother who has walked with Jesus for longer than I have and who is a lot holier and more faithful than I am told me that the closer he walks with Jesus, the more aware he is of just how deep this "Flesh" thing goes and where he falls short of the mark.

We're not talking just sinful action, we're talking about sinful words, we're talking about sinful thoughts, we're talking about sins of omission where "we have not loved You with our whole heart, we have not loved our neighbor" and failed to do the good that it was in our power to do. And then there's that Pride thing...

 

[Lambano]

My current view is that there are deeply rooted theological traditions that teach that all self-effort is spiritually detrimental. They conflate it with going back under the laws of Moses

Hmm. What did Paul mean by “Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” (Romans 3:28) ?

I never ran into this myself until the Internet age brought me into contact with a VERY diverse group of Christians. But apparently there is a branch of Christianity called "Quietism " or "Molinism" (after a 17th century Spanish priest named Miquel de Molinos), and before him the Contemplative Meister Eckhardt back in the 1300s, who advocated a spiritualism of quieting the soul. The original "Let go and let God". Not my cup of tea, but who am I to judge another man's servant? (Romans 14:4)

 

[Lambano]

For many Christians doctrines like OSAS, faith alone, and rejecting works and self effort are the only source of assurance tbat they are saved and going to heaven.

If you were taught your whole life that its impossible to stop sinning, then justification by faith alone seems like the only way to really know that you are saved. It can't be on any personal basis because if it was, we'd be condemned and unqualified.

So then eternal security rises up to reassure people's hearts that they are making it. And to question that appears to be ruining the confidence people have.

They say that Jesus comforts the afflicted and afflicts the comfortable.

The verses supporting Eternal Security are not for those who won't put in the effort. They are for those who have tried and failed, who have stumbled and fallen repeatedly and who have a hard time getting on their feet again, for those who have screwed-up badly and know they can't fix it, for those who are discouraged and ready to give up.

These are my people.

 

[Jay Ross]

For me the way to righteous is to plant myself in God's fertile field and draw my nourishment from God's field.

 

[APAK]

For me the way to righteous is to plant myself in God's fertile field and draw my nourishment from God's field.

You are one of the obedient and wise ones Jay. You are the part of his field that you allowed him to cultivate to become fertile; you opened your heart to him. The seed was planted and then he went to work in you and for you to become one of his own, a righteous being, kept and nourished today and tomorrow because of the faith he gave to you, and you grabbed it, enabling you to press on, grow and endure in Christ today.

Unfortunately, most everyone (hearts) in God's field are not cultivated and then not fertilized, and thus are not believers of salvation. They remain wild, full of weeds and even thorns, hardened in their soil of their hearts, closed to God and the offering of his salvation, They continue to work for it themselves through self-works, still under the law, active before Christ, that they hope will win Christ. They are doing it all their way by their 'free' will. What a shame!

 

[Debp]

living a life characterized by unrepentant sin is evidence that the person has not been spiritually regenerated and has no reason to be confident they are one of the Elect.

That's it exactly. We who believe in Eternal Security rest in Jesus regarding our salvation...a life of peace. It doesn't mean we think we can then live in sin.

A born again Christian will have fruits, a desire to live godly in Christ. But this is an inward work by the Holy Spirit, as we grow in Christ.

 

[Spyder]

We who believe in obedience and listen to the spirit within are not "doing works" for salvation. We are doing obedience out of love for the One who accepted us into the New Covenant. We either live by obedience or we don't. If we err, we have a clear line to God to repent and change and be forgiven to start anew.
While God will not abandon us, we can abandon Him. Whether or not we were ever "of Him" or not is something only God will know.

 

[Wrangler]

I see the biggest obstacle for Christians having practical righteousness is that they think it's unnecessary or even detrimental to following Jesus. Doctrines that support this include but are not limited to Once Saved Always Saved/Eternal Security, Justification by faith alone, and Total Depravity.

Please clarify how the second sentence relates to the first. I like the thread topic. Just don't understand how the referenced doctrines relate.

Thanks!

 

[Rightglory]

I may be starting to understand why many people will reject any objections to Eternal Security and don't seem to care whether it's biblical or not.

As you posted a video regarding the false teachings of Calvinism it becomes very apparent in the particular views that stem from these errant theologies. Those that hold to some form of eternal security are consistent within that view regarding other scriptural principles .
However, throughout the entire scripturs, OT and NT, ones personal salvation has always been about man's free will and obedience to His Maker. Adam was walking with God, He had a commandment to test his love for God using his free will. Love cannot be forced or done for someone else. In the NT, Christ, the Holy Spirit is NOT doing any works that save us, He does not do the works that God commands us to do. These works were created for man to walk therein.
Man is free to act from his free will. Satan and God are at war with each other over man's soul. In the Garden it was Satan enticing man to follow him, vs man following God. Satan does not do the sin, he entices us to sin. We do the sinning. Christ does not do the work of love in us. The Holy Spirit, once one becomes a believer, works in us that we do His will. He is not doing our will or doing what we should be doing regarding being righteous. When we sin, we confess our sins and He is faithful to forgive us. However, if we continue in sin and do not repent we may be lost. Scripture is quite clear that believers fall away. Why would it not be logical considering man's fallen state and the constant work of Satan to pull us away from Christ. A believer can quench the Holy Spirit.

For many Christians doctrines like OSAS, faith alone, and rejecting works and self effort are the only source of assurance tbat they are saved and going to heaven.

In accepting these erroneous views they also assume the opposite for those that do not hold these views. Because they hold that God does all the work, then those that hold the view that man is responsible for his salvation assume a believer is doing it alone. By definition a believer is one who is IN Christ, one who is dependent on the working of the Holy Spirit in their lives, so it is NEVER alone.

If you were taught your whole life that its impossible to stop sinning, then justification by faith alone seems like the only way to really know that you are saved. It can't be on any personal basis because if it was, we'd be condemned and unqualified.

I'm going to assume you might be referring to Total Depravity - Calvin's teaching that man cannot do anything to find God, or to know God. Another point that is unscriptural.

Do I think we need eternal security doctrines to have assurance of salvation? No. We need to use the tests and assurances Jesus and the apostles laid out in Scripture.

Correct.

James writes that extending help to those in need rather than looking the other way is a way to prove our faith is genuine.

I don't believe there's any genuine assurance of our salvation unless we see ourselves obeying Jesus and walking in love.

Precisely.

 

[Wynona]

Is it possible to stop sinning? I come from the Methodist tradition (where it's called "Entire Sanctification"), and John Wesley thought so, though much is made of the fact that he never claimed to have achieved it himself. Along the same lines, a brother who has walked with Jesus for longer than I have and who is a lot holier and more faithful than I am told me that the closer he walks with Jesus, the more aware he is of just how deep this "Flesh" thing goes and where he falls short of the mark.

We're not talking just sinful action, we're talking about sinful words, we're talking about sinful thoughts, we're talking about sins of omission where "we have not loved You with our whole heart, we have not loved our neighbor" and failed to do the good that it was in our power to do. And then there's that Pride thing...

Jesus, Paul, Peter, John and James among others said it was possible in Scripture and that we should stop.

I do have a bit of nerve because even though there are many many educated scholars, pastors, and theologians who insist that its impossible to stop sinning, I just believe Jesus and the disciples/apostles anyway and will contradict them all.

Does this make me a bit ...weird? I think so. A little egotistical too, for being willing to contradict those more educated and smarter than me.

So be it. Jesus has the power to set us free from sin. He promised. I don't think this is something we can do if we don't believe this promise. If you believe you can never stop sinning, you most assuredly wont.

But the Lord can enable us to stand. He can give us the power to do good as we are able. He gives us grace as we need it. One decision at a time. I don't think it does any good to project onto your whole future. We stand or fall one moment at a time, keeping our minds on things above so we dont fall.

Today is enough, and if I happen to mess up. I don't have to label myself a failure. I confess. I start over. We don't sin just be existing, eating or sleeping. The flesh can be overcome by the Spirit, if you feed the Spirit more.

Christians don't have to be defeatist about sin. They can simply believe Jesus by faith and overcome by abiding in the Scriptures and keeping our minds on things above. Being a saint and walking in love---these are things Jesus enables us to do when we abide in Him.

 

[chiclady]

It is quite difficult to find if my reply to a post was already posted. I am reposting this. Btw, hi Wynona. I think I've read a lot of passages from this thread about righteousness, I wanted to add another one. As believers of Jesus, "We have been justified and declared righteous by God through our faith." (Romans 5:1) Being righteous is to have hope for eternal glory having our glorified bodies and through this hope, we need to constantly endure all sufferings, and temptations, shaping our character to His likeness. His substitionary death made us righteous reconciled to the Father. It is through the work of transforming grace and the spirit that enables us to live the kind of life that honors Him.