Praying in the Spirit

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Berserk

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The NT teaches many subtle principles of effective prayer, In my experience, the most important principle is this: the more time you are willing to devote to seeking God's face, the more effective your prayer life will be. That principle is one reason why praying in the Spirit is so powerful; it normally takes considerable time to enter that prayer state. The great revivals in history were triggered by prayer warriors who spent hours on their knees. The greatest hindrance to a new great revival is our increasingly shorter attention spans that prevent us from devoting the time to truly "wait on God."
 
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Hidden In Him

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You need to study the topic for yourself and not go by what you've been trained to believe.

Dave, you don't know me very well. I'm not Pentecostal because of what I've been "trained" to believe. I wasn't raised a Christian, came into relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ entirely on my own at 21, and was only a member of a few Christian denominations for a very brief period. For the last 25+ years I have been almost entirely self-taught.

You assume far too much, which is part of your problem.
Your do not have the gift of tongues by any stretch.

And here is where you REALLY should be careful. This sort of statement borders on blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, though I am hoping for your sake it doesn't qualify. But stop and think for a moment; as little as you actually know about me and my life, suppose for a second that I actually had spoken in tongues through the Spirit of God.

You are outright telling me that it was NOT the Holy Spirit under any terms. Do you understand the implications of what you are doing?
 
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Dave L

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Dave, you don't know me very well. I'm not Pentecostal because of what I've been "trained" to believe. I wasn't raised a Christian, came into relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ entirely on my own at 21, and was only a member of a few Christian denominations for a very brief period. For the last 25+ years I have been almost entirely self-taught.

You assume far too much, which is part of your problem.


And here is where you REALLY should be careful. This sort of statement borders on blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, though I am hoping for your sake it doesn't qualify. But stop and think for a moment; as little as you actually know about me and my life, suppose for a second that I actually had spoken in tongues through the Spirit of God.

You are outright telling me that it was NOT the Holy Spirit under any terms. Do you understand the implications of what you are doing?
Scripture does not support your claims.
 

Hidden In Him

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The greatest hindrance to a new great revival is our increasingly shorter attention spans that prevent us from devoting the time to truly "wait on God."

Yes, and because much of Christianity has devolved into "What God can do for you" instead of what we are supposed to be doing for God. The command was to pray incessantly, and for the power of God to be made manifest through us unto the world as a witness that Jesus Christ was the indeed the Son of God. But that takes travailing in prayer, and most would rather sit back and relax.

How different Christianity is today from the religion Paul taught, that we should agonize (αγωνίζω) for the faith, not only in prayer but in contending for the truth, and giving every once of energy we had in this life to serving Him.
 
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Hidden In Him

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Scripture does not support your claims.

Says the man whose repeated statements may end up backfiring on him.


Funny-gun-fire-Recoil-Epic.gif
 
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Hidden In Him

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You have everything but scripture trying to discount what I said.

And why is that? I've explained this to you before, but you don't listen. It's because you play games with people, and when you don't like how the game is going you take your ball and go home.

You don't debate the scriptures. You just post your opinions and that's it.

Now stop derailing this OP, LoL. You're getting annoying, like a mosquito again.
 
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Dave L

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And why is that? I've explained this to you before, but you don't listen. It's because talking scripture with you is like getting into a playpen with an infant. I don't like saying it because it sounds insulting, but you always end up forcing it. But you play games with people, and when you don't like how the game is going you take your ball and go home.

You don't debate the scriptures, Dave, admit it. You just post your opinions and that's it.

Now stop derailing this OP, LoL. You're getting annoying, like a mosquito again.
The problem is the gifts you think you have are not genuine. And I am calling attention to that.
 

Hidden In Him

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The problem is the gifts you think you have are not genuine. And I am calling attention to that.

Dave, it doesn't bother me about that. What bothers me is what you teach, and the effect it could have on your eternity. I'm starting to think you honestly don't care if you go to Hell or not. I'm starting to honestly think your only concern is with what you do in this life, and you really don't give anything else another thought. I wonder what our words will be when we meet in Heaven, but then I honestly question if you are even going to be there or not.

I'm seriously worried that you will not be.
 
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Helen

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Ok, point well taken. But I think you need to be careful about taking the Spirit of God almost completely out of what you term Christianity until it is nothing more than an empty religion with no power in it.

Amen.
We can but pray for him. His bad experience turned him...sad. He is a good guy. ;)
 

Helen

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It could be a very good thread here that you started @Berserk
( do you have a name, I hate using berserk LOL , my name is Helen )

@Dave L

Hate to say this Dave, but you have posted all these same comments 'forever'
I have to agree with @Hidden In Him in him you are trying to derail this thread.

How do YOU "pray in the Spirit" because praying in the Spirit is what this thread is all about, NOT whether tongues isn't or is of God. Forget that, and get back to topic...P L E A S E.

...H
 

Helen

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For me..( while I do pray in tongues) I believe and have found that praying can so often just be by rote.
That is why I actually hate prayer meetings. ( wow, did I just say that out loud)

I did once stand up in a "prayer" meeting and say to them all.-
"Well I am totally bored, and I am sure the Lord is totally bored , and I believe the Holy Spirit left ages ago, so I also am going." And I did .

Some seem to think that just opening our mouth and speaking, is prayer that will somehow get an answer.
God already known that my aunts cousin, twice removed, has a bunion on her toe ...
Praying in the Spirt 'for me' is praying and listening then praying...

To first get quiet enough before the Lord and listen to what HE SAYS that the prayer needs are. (not that we don't pray when someone asks for it, we do)
yet even then, we listen first on how to pray..THEN we are praying God's word through the direction of the Holy Spirit.

But, that "just me."
 

Berserk

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Helen: "I believe and have found that praying can so often just be by rote.

That's why I think small group prayer meetings are so much more effective than prayer chains. Prayer chains with a long list of needs tend to lead to a laundry list mentality in which the main concern is to routinely cover all the bases.

Helen: "That is why I actually hate prayer meetings. ( wow, did I just say that out loud)"
Yikes! I wonder if you'd hate our weekly Monday prayer group of 5 people! We often experience miraculous answers to prayer.
For example, in the past couple of months, we prayed for the healing of 2 malignant brain tumors. (1) Shane was a troubled agnostic (age 30) with many other problems. After we prayed for his tumor, subsequent tests showed that it had vanished. His healing convinced him that Christ was real and I saw him come forward in church to commit his life to Christ. He posted before and after pictures of his tumor on Facebook. He was recently baptized and shared his testimony in church.
(2) Rhonda was an older woman who served as her husband's care giver. The healing of her brain tumor allowed her to resume that role for her husband.

Our prayer meeting usually lasts from 4 to 6:30 PM. We begin by informally sharing our lives, burdens, and spiritual insights. Then we take turns mentioning prayer needs and give updates on those we've been praying for. Updates are a way to make our prayers more visceral. Then I typically lead us in a silent 2-phase Quaker meditation.
(1) In the first phase, we extend our arms with hands palms up and for a couple of minutes we slowly move them upwards in semi-circular fashion until they are palms down on our knees. As we do this, we meditate on the thought that by faith we are turning the people in need of prayer over to God's loving care to bless them in the way He deems best. This is our way of honoring the petition "Thy will be done" in the Lord's Prayer. That way when we later make specific petitions, we make it clear that we really want God's will to be done rather than just get what we're asking for.

(2) In the 2nd phase, we place our hands palms up on our knees in a gesture of receptive expectation. We then meditate on the thought that we are now receiving all the grace, power, guidance, and wisdom we need to be the instruments of blessing for those we have just turned over to God's tender care. We do this from an awareness that we need to be fit vessels to channel God's blessing and healing power to others.

Then we generally take turns petitioning God to answer our petitions. I urge the others to avoid the temptation to mention all the needy people by name to avoid the laundry list mentality. Instead, I urge them to pray spontaneously as they feel led without a preconceived agenda. After all, Paul urges us to be "led by the Spirit."

Helen: "I did once stand up in a "prayer" meeting and say to them all: "Well I am totally bored, and I am sure the Lord is totally bored , and I believe the Holy Spirit left ages ago, so I also am going." And I did ."

That's why God says: "I cannot endure your solemn assemblies with iniquity...I am wearied [bored] by them...Even though you offer many prayers, I will not listen (Isaiah 1:13-15)."

Helen: "Some seem to think that just opening our mouth and speaking, is prayer that will somehow get an answer.
God already known that my aunts cousin, twice removed, has a bunion on her toe … "."

That's why Jesus said: "They think they will be heard because of their many words. Don't be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him (Matthew 6:8)." A good prayer motto is: the words are the least important aspect of effective prayer.
 
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Dave L

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It could be a very good thread here that you started @Berserk
( do you have a name, I hate using berserk LOL , my name is Helen )

@Dave L

Hate to say this Dave, but you have posted all these same comments 'forever'
I have to agree with @Hidden In Him in him you are trying to derail this thread.

How do YOU "pray in the Spirit" because praying in the Spirit is what this thread is all about, NOT whether tongues isn't or is of God. Forget that, and get back to topic...P L E A S E.

...H
It's a matter of conscience. Nothing more.

“Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;” (2 Timothy 4:2–3)
 
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Dave L

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Oh Dave my dear friend...you have thrown the baby out with the bathwater..you know not of what you speak.
Take a chill pill my friend ...we know this subject is a hot button for you.

Sadly, you have dumped the good and the bad. :(
Today's tongues are not the originals by any stretch. It's interesting, the Azusa street Pentecostals unwittingly revealed the fraud by claiming tongues were human languages when in scripture they only appear to be. But with careful study they are not.
 

Hidden In Him

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That is why I actually hate prayer meetings. ( wow, did I just say that out loud)

I did once stand up in a "prayer" meeting and say to them all.-
"Well I am totally bored, and I am sure the Lord is totally bored , and I believe the Holy Spirit left ages ago, so I also am going." And I did .

Some seem to think that just opening our mouth and speaking, is prayer that will somehow get an answer.

LoL. Some prayer meetings are better than others. The Hispanic church my wife attends has fairly good prayer meetings on Friday nights. You can feel the Presence of God. As I've posted elsewhere before, the Presence has fallen so powerfully in this church a few times that the entire congregation went silent for up to 15 minutes on end. But then, the prayer meetings can sometimes shift over into the flesh as well. If whoever takes the mic is not in the Spirit (and/or gets too loud), I tend to wander off outside and walk and pray instead. So it's a mixed bag. Depends on the night.
To first get quiet enough before the Lord and listen to what HE SAYS that the prayer needs are. (not that we don't pray when someone asks for it, we do)
yet even then, we listen first on how to pray..THEN we are praying God's word through the direction of the Holy Spirit.

Exactly. It's all about hearing Him. He already hears us. What He wants is for us to hear Him, and pray according to what HE is wanting to speak.
 
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Hidden In Him

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Yikes! I wonder if you'd hate our weekly Monday prayer group of 5 people! We often experience miraculous answers to prayer.
For example, in the past couple of months, we prayed for the healing of 2 malignant brain tumors. (1) Shane was a troubled agnostic (age 30) with many other problems. After we prayed for his tumor, subsequent tests showed that it had vanished. His healing convinced him that Christ was real and I saw him come forward in church to commit his life to Christ. He posted before and after pictures of his tumor on Facebook. He was recently baptized and shared his testimony in church.
(2) Rhonda was an older woman who served as her husband's care giver. The healing of her brain tumor allowed her to resume that role for her husband.

Our prayer meeting usually lasts from 4 to 6:30 PM. We begin by informally sharing our lives, burdens, and spiritual insights. Then we take turns mentioning prayer needs and give updates on those we've been praying for. Updates are a way to make our prayers more visceral. Then I typically lead us in a silent 2-phase Quaker meditation.
(1) In the first phase, we extend our arms with hands palms up and for a couple of minutes we slowly move them upwards in semi-circular fashion until they are palms down on our knees. As we do this, we meditate on the thought that by faith we are turning the people in need of prayer over to God's loving care to bless them in the way He deems best. This is our way of honoring the petition "Thy will be done" in the Lord's Prayer. That way when we later make specific petitions, we make it clear that we really want God's will to be done rather than just get what we're asking for.

(2) In the 2nd phase, we place our hands palms up on our knees in a gesture of receptive expectation. We then meditate on the thought that we are now receiving all the grace, power, guidance, and wisdom we need to be the instruments of blessing for those we have just turned over to God's tender care. We do this from an awareness that we need to be fit vessels to channel God's blessing and healing power to others.

Then we generally take turns petitioning God to answer our petitions. I urge the others to avoid the temptation to mention all the needy people by name to avoid the laundry list mentality. Instead, I urge them to pray spontaneously as they feel led without a preconceived agenda. After all, Paul urges us to be "led by the Spirit."

Wonderful post! Glad you joined, Berzerk : )

Btw, in case you don't know how to quote someone, all you have to do is click on "Reply" at the bottom right-hand corner of their post to do so, and if you want to just quote a sentence or two, run your cursor over the passage you want to quote and then lift. You should get a prompt that says "quote+/reply." Click Reply and it will send just that sentence to your post box.
 
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Berserk

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One of the most important NT texts on praying in the Spirit is Romans 8:26-27:

"Likewise, the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we don't know how to pray as we ought, but that very Spirit intercedes with groans too deep for words...The Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God."

The Greek "stenagmoi alaletai" translated "groans too deep for words" is hard to translate with precision. The first century Roman writer Lucan uses a similar phrase to describe the glossolalia spoken by the prophetess at Delphi in utterances that then need to be interpreted by a prophet. This pagan parallel seems to illumine the cultural use of such language to designate speaking in tongues. If so, then Romans 8:26-27 is a priceless text for explaining the role and value of tongues in private prayer. The Holy Spirit prays through us for what God really wants in a situation rather than for what we want. That is why such prayer in the Spirit is so effective.

But I believe that this text also applies to the signing and groaning of ordinary prayer warriors who are so troubled over a need that words fail to come to mind that adequately express their burden. In such cases, the Holy Spirit can intervene and subtly take control of wandering troubled minds to pray for the needs that God is prepared to meet now.
 
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