Preaching of Lord in human form and digestion of the truth

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dattaswami8

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Preaching of Lord in human form and digestion of the truth

Jesus preached wonderful knowledge. The ordinary fishermen were convinced and followed Him as the Lord. The priests of church were great saints who were unmarried and left every thing for the sake of God. Those priests were certainly higher then ordinary people. The ordinary people followed Jesus because they were convinced in their minds, intelligence and consciousness. They clarified their doubts with Jesus directly and were convinced. This is called as Atma Pramanam. These ordinary people did not look for the voting of the priests to Jesus. In fact, the priests opposed Jesus and crucified Him. In spite, of that the ordinary people followed Jesus since they were convinced. A priest has left every thing for the sake of God. No doubt they are greater people since they have greater urge. The greater urge itself cannot qualify any person. A student may have a greater urge for the answer but he might have not understood the answer given by the teacher. Another student might have not so much urge but has understood the answer. Between these two students who is greater?


Janaka was a king and did not leave the kingdom. Suka was a saint and left every thing with extreme urge for God. Janaka was appointed as examiner of Suka by sage Vyasa. Who is greater between these two? Though Janaka was a house holder and did not leave anything, he is the student with answer. Suka is a saint who left every thing and got answer from Janaka only. Quest is appreciable but cannot be the qualification. Capacity to understand the answer lies with the internal mental development (Samskara).


The external orange robe, the quest for God, leaving every thing and roaming every where, attaining a post of Pithadhipati, studying scriptures by tradition etc., are certainly appreciable but are not the qualifications of greatness. A student may be in the uniform dress. He may have lot of urge to get the knowledge. He might have left his house and roamed from school to school. He might have become a teacher of a school.


He might have studied the course according to discipline. He might have memorized and got through the examination and He might have thus got the degree and became the teacher. But still his doubts in the subject were not answered. Einstein and Ramanujam did not get a pass and could not get the degree. But they have perfectly understood the subject. Therefore, attainment lies in their internal samskaras and attaining the real preacher.


Both the samskaras and Guru (Preacher) are important for the attainment and not the other points. Both the pearl shell and the rain drop are essential for the formation of a pearl. Except these two, all the other factors are ephemeral only. You should judge anything by your self and in association with others through discussions and debates. In coming to the conclusion you can take the help of the discussions with others. But you should use your own intelligence and consciousness in final conclusion. In this way the participation of others is helpful. But to see whether some body lifted his hand or not for voting is a point is foolishness. You can discuss with him about the point. You should lift your hand based on your final conclusion. Even a cleaver person may go wrong in that particular point. Your vote should not depend on his vote.
 

Wormwood

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dattaswami,

I must disagree with your post. I do not think Jesus would agree with what you are teaching. Jesus told a parable in Matthew 20 about different workers. Some of the workers worked all day while others only worked an hour. At the end of the day, the Master paid them all the same wage. Those who worked the longest and had "greater urge" but they were not greater in the eyes of God.

God's grace is not based on human effort, or else it would not be grace. Likewise, the older brother in Luke 15 was very zealous and was diligent in following the direction of his Father, yet it is the younger son who was wayward and repented that received the warm welcome and celebration. Why? Was the younger son greater because he received a party? Was the older son greater because he was more obedient? No.

Our value is not based on our urges or efforts. Our value comes from the love of God poured out in our lives. God does not love us more if we do more. He does not love us more if we do less. As a Father loves his children, he loves them all and does not rack and stack them based on urges, efforts, or performance. We do not have to compete for God's love. He gives it freely to both he wise and the foolish. Those with answers and those who are ignorant are loved by God. We need only to accept that love.

The moment we start comparing ourselves with one another we begin to burden ourselves and others with legalistic and performance-based religion. The last come first in the Kingdom of God because God will not allow his grace to be turned into a means of human boasting. God alone is glorified and we are merely recipients of a love and grace that none of us deserve and we cannot add to it or take away from it. We simply accept it. That is the Christian Gospel. I hope this makes sense.
 

Dcopymope

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dattaswami,

I must disagree with your post. I do not think Jesus would agree with what you are teaching. Jesus told a parable in Matthew 20 about different workers. Some of the workers worked all day while others only worked an hour. At the end of the day, the Master paid them all the same wage. Those who worked the longest and had "greater urge" but they were not greater in the eyes of God.

God's grace is not based on human effort, or else it would not be grace. Likewise, the older brother in Luke 15 was very zealous and was diligent in following the direction of his Father, yet it is the younger son who was wayward and repented that received the warm welcome and celebration. Why? Was the younger son greater because he received a party? Was the older son greater because he was more obedient? No.

Our value is not based on our urges or efforts. Our value comes from the love of God poured out in our lives. God does not love us more if we do more. He does not love us more if we do less. As a Father loves his children, he loves them all and does not rack and stack them based on urges, efforts, or performance. We do not have to compete for God's love. He gives it freely to both he wise and the foolish. Those with answers and those who are ignorant are loved by God. We need only to accept that love.

The moment we start comparing ourselves with one another we begin to burden ourselves and others with legalistic and performance-based religion. The last come first in the Kingdom of God because God will not allow his grace to be turned into a means of human boasting. God alone is glorified and we are merely recipients of a love and grace that none of us deserve and we cannot add to it or take away from it. We simply accept it. That is the Christian Gospel. I hope this makes sense.

I so do hope this makes sense as well. Please let it so Lord, because if not, then we have a serious problem. We already have enough people preaching a works based belief with their "reward" system, we don't need another one adding further insult to injury.
 

dattaswami8

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I so do hope this makes sense as well. Please let it so Lord, because if not, then we have a serious problem. We already have enough people preaching a works based belief with their "reward" system, we don't need another one adding further insult to injury.
whether the salvation is a free gift of God and not based on the work?


This is the climax of foolishness. Even in the worldly affairs, a selection board sits and filters the deserving candidate to give the gift. If anybody in this world gives a free gift without seeing the deserving qualifications, people will call him as a full mad person. Do you treat God as mad person, who is wiser than the wisest in this world? Jesus asked His devotees to go to villages and propagate His knowledge. Even today the Christian fathers wander all over the earth and they are propagating the divine knowledge by constant lecturers. Is this not work? If salvation is a free gift why should they work? How much divine work Jesus carried on? In Hinduism you can support free gift by saying that a soul might have done lot of good work in the previous birth and the gift may appear as free gift because the soul did not perform any good work in this birth. But Christianity does not believe the re-birth and therefore such possibility of explanation is also ruled out here.
Some praise the Lord as the kindest, who protects even the sinners and thus they say that Lord helps even the undeserving. If it is so, there is no place of punishment for the sins. Every sinner should be saved by the Lord and then the cycle of deeds becomes meaningless and invalid. Actually, this statement is made by deserving devotees, who project themselves as undeserving due to their submissive character and lack of ego.


By this statement, one should not misunderstand that really God helps the undeserving due to His boundless compassion. His kindness is always seen in His constant efforts to preach all the souls to uplift them from doing sins and to make them deserving through high devotion. A teacher always helps every student to read and understand the knowledge, but he will not help any student in the examination by giving answers secretly. The kindness of teacher is appreciated in his interest to teach every student but he is not appreciated in helping the students through unfair means.




The Lord behaves as a real father towards the souls of Gana (Gana means a group of souls, who have become very close to the Lord by their unimaginable devotion) because these souls have real devotion to the Lord as their real father. The other ordinary souls treat the Lord as adopted father. The adopted children love the father only for getting his property. Even if they serve him, the service is done with the ultimate aim of getting his property. The real children serve the father even though the father is poor without a single paisa (a penny). Their devotion is real.


The ordinary souls love and serve the Lord only for getting some benefit from the Lord in return. Some like protection in this world by solving their problems here. Some others like to have protection after the death. All these are one and the same, since they aspire some fruit in return. Real love is always pure without aspiration for any fruit.


The devotee serving the Lord practically by recognizing Him in human form here alone becomes the member of the Gana. Those souls worshipping Lord theoretically without practical sacrifice and service or those serving practically the idols and photos cannot enter Gana. The service rendered to idols is either received by themselves or the priests but not the Lord. Of course, the Lord is pleased if you can identify a real deserving devotee and serve him.
 

Wormwood

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The foolishness of God is wiser than men. The reason many Israelites died in their sin was because they would not submit themselves to the righteousness of God. Those who want to earn their way with God have fallen from grace. Either we accept God's gift or we seek to earn his favor. You cannot do both. This is why Jesus said the kingdom of God belongs to those who are like little children. Children do not have to compete for love. They are loved because they belong to their parent, not because they earn it.

If you continue to try to earn righteousness before God by your acts, you will find that you will be alienated from his grace. Either the cross is sufficient for you or you believe you have to add to the blood of Jesus through your personal piety or devotion then you bring disgrace upon the sacrifice Jesus made for you.

Of course we strive to live holy and devoted lives. However, we do this BECAUSE we have received grace an not in order to obtain it. This is why Jesus reached out to the prostitutes, tax collectors and sinners. He went to those who knew they needed grace because their deeds and devotion was bankrupt. Those who felt their merited God's favor because of their own holiness were a stench in the nose of Jesus. You have adopted a false Gospel and one that renders grace meaningless to you. I hope you turn from this false teaching and embrace Christianity alone without trying to mesh it with humanistic logic or Hinduism. The cross of Christ is foolishness to the wise of this world. If you continue to try to reason it out, you will miss it. Indeed, it seems you already have.
 
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dattaswami8

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The foolishness of God is wiser than men. The reason many Israelites died in their sin was because they would not submit themselves to the righteousness of God. Those who want to earn their way with God have fallen from grace. Either we accept God's gift or we seek to earn his favor. You cannot do both. This is why Jesus said the kingdom of God belongs to those who are like little children. Children do not have to compete for love. They are loved because they belong to their parent, not because they earn it.

If you continue to try to earn righteousness before God by your acts, you will find that you will be alienated from his grace. Either the cross is sufficient for you or you believe you have to add to the blood of Jesus through your personal piety or devotion then you bring disgrace upon the sacrifice Jesus made for you.

Of course we strive to live holy and devoted lives. However, we do this BECAUSE we have received grace an not in order to obtain it. This is why Jesus reached out to the prostitutes, tax collectors and sinners. He went to those who knew they needed grace because their deeds and devotion was bankrupt. Those who felt their merited God's favor because of their own holiness were a stench in the nose of Jesus. You have adopted a false Gospel and one that renders grace meaningless to you. I hope you turn from this false teaching and embrace Christianity alone without trying to mesh it with humanistic logic or Hinduism. The cross of Christ is foolishness to the wise of this world. If you continue to try to reason it out, you will miss it. Indeed, it seems you already have.
Unless you practically serve God, you can never ever please Him!! People are become lazy telling that everything will be given freely from God! Due to this people are not entering into practically serving God. Their love is limited to words and prayers only which is not proved in practice!!

Serve God without expecting anything in return from Him


I am fed up with your false love to Me, which is either love of prostitute (veshyaa bhakti) by aspiring practical fruit (reward) from Me for your sacrifice of sweet theoretical devotion (prayers and songs) or deal of merchant (vyshya bhakti) by aspiring practical fruit from Me for your practical sacrifice of work or fruit of work. You have ocean of real love (both theoretical and practical) towards your issues, which is the result of pure theoretical love i.e., sacrifice of work and its fruit without aspiring anything in return. Sacrifice at least a drop from that ocean to Me as humble beginning to prove that I am at least a small trace before your issues(children)! In view of this truth, don’t speak lies by reciting prayers meaning that I am above everybody and everything!


Even if you sing on God with very sweet voice, God is not pleased if you are aspiring for some fruit in return. Even if you sing with very harsh voice, if your song has no background of any aspiration in return, God is highly pleased. Your intension is important and not the merit of the mode of worship.
 

Wormwood

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First, you know nothing about me, my devotion to God or my heart. Let us deal with the issues of this topic and not attack one another's devotion, character or service. I assure you my faith is not mere lip-service. Yet our motivation is grace, not merit. I encourage you to use some Bible verses in your response because I am far more interested in what Jesus taught than your impressions, personal ideas or Hindu proverbs. As a Christian, I am devoted to the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Bible. If you claim to be a Christian, I would encourage you to base your beliefs on the same.
 

dattaswami8

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First, you know nothing about me, my devotion to God or my heart. Let us deal with the issues of this topic and not attack one another's devotion, character or service. I assure you my faith is not mere lip-service. Yet our motivation is grace, not merit. I encourage you to use some Bible verses in your response because I am far more interested in what Jesus taught than your impressions, personal ideas or Hindu proverbs. As a Christian, I am devoted to the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Bible. If you claim to be a Christian, I would encourage you to base your beliefs on the same.

Please kindly note that here 'you' means not you. It is a general term..pl. understand, i have no idea about you. From your own words i can understand you are a very good devotee of Jesus hence my replies do not apply to you. I gave a general reply. Not addressing you. You are a great devotee of Jesus.

My point is that we have to love God without expecting anything in return from Him that is the royal path to God. Such love also shall be proved in practice whenever required. For example such extreme love can be seen in the case of Abraham who was even ready to kill his only son by the order of God. I am telling this as an example, how much Abraham loved God, even ready to kill his own son!! I cannot have such high faith...

A voice from the sky came down to Abraham asking him that whether he can sacrifice his son for the sake of God. Here God is not in the visible form. Abraham immediately proved his devotion. Jesus asked the fishermen to leave everything and follow Him. They left everything and followed Jesus. Here, Abraham and fishermen proved their highest devotion for God.

Kindly please forgive me if my replies hurt you...it was not addressed to you, but only as a general term i used 'you' it not you directly...