Predestination...barn-yard simple!

[jonnycool]

I think you shouldn't be judging doctrines yourself because it seems you can't discern good and evil correctly.
That's just your opinion Jordan.Answer me this, is is ever right to commit genocide?I was just going to bed but I will wait sometime for your answer.1 Cor 2:15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment: 1CO 2:16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?"But we have the mind of Christ.john.

 

[Christina]

Well Ill tell you what you go with your religion its my belief all religion is of men for men I study Gods Word and it has no religion its for all most everything you have said is some mans interptation of Gods Word. It is not what God tells us I dont need men to tell me what my Father has shown me and what he says you seem to be twisting and parapharsing and interpting everything to what isnt said. Your religion may teach it this way but God doesnt So Im done here I dont play mens religion with scripture. We study scripture here not religious interptations.

 

[tim_from_pa]

Whew boy! Another Johnny-come-lately who is the only one that knows how to interpret God's Word and everyone's else's posts are just opinions and erroneous doctrine that must be corrected. Funny thing is that similar such people in the past all adamantly said that their way is God's true interpretation, and yet they all said something different. God must be getting to be a senile old man to inspire these people to say different things these days.Christina, where do these come from? they're coming out of the woodwork these days.

 

[Follower]

(tim_from_pa;62218)
Whew boy! Another Johnny-come-lately who is the only one that knows how to interpret God's Word and everyone's else's posts are just opinions and erroneous doctrine that must be corrected.
You're pointing your finger at an innocent individual.
Christina, where do these come from? they're coming out of the woodwork these days.
Msg 11 "Your both entitled to opinion but thats all it is an opinion its not Biblical" Not said by Jonnycool.Msg 49 "Opinions are opinions, and opinions cometh from men. God has no opinions. " Not said by Jonnycool.Msg 50 "But that is just an opinion." Mild sarcasm from Jonnycool.Msg 52 "You are in that case only giving an uneducated opinion on God Word" Not said by Jonnycool.Msg 56 "I would like to express my opinion again" Johnnycool.Msg 61 "That's just your opinion Jordan." finally, Johnnycool dismisses the statement of someone else as opinion - and it's clearly with a bit of sarcasm, given the previous messages in the thread.

 

[Jordan]

(Follower;62222)
(tim_from_pa;62218)
Whew boy! Another Johnny-come-lately who is the only one that knows how to interpret God's Word and everyone's else's posts are just opinions and erroneous doctrine that must be corrected...
You're pointing your finger at an innocent individual.(tim_from_pa;62218)
Christina, where do these come from? they're coming out of the woodwork these days.
Msg 11 "Your both entitled to opinion but thats all it is an opinion its not Biblical" Not said by Jonnycool.Msg 49 "Opinions are opinions, and opinions cometh from men. God has no opinions. " Not said by Jonnycool.Msg 50 "But that is just an opinion." Mild sarcasm from Jonnycool.Msg 52 "You are in that case only giving an uneducated opinion on God Word" Not said by Jonnycool.Msg 56 "I would like to express my opinion again" Johnnycool.Msg 61 "That's just your opinion Jordan." finally, Johnnycool dismisses the statement of someone else as opinion - and it's clearly with a bit of sarcasm, given the previous messages in the thread.It's not exactly a innocent individual when someone is preaching a single / multiple false doctrines.

 

[Christina]

LET ME MAKE THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR THIS A BIBLE STUDY SITE Sola Scriptura- a Latin phrase that means Scripture alone. We believethat the Bible interprets itself, We emphasize the use of original languages along with thisEveryone is free to practice whatever christian religion they chose but when one starts trying to push their denominational views/interpretations/opinions as the right one. These kind of problems arise. Gods Word says ONE THING HE HAS ONE PLAN if you chose to view that plan and his Word filtered through a Religious denomination that is your choiceGod has foretold us all things, Gods is Word is King here not men and his ideas, not ones denominational beliefs. If you can not get past your denominational choices then perhaps this isn't your site. You will get comments like thats mens words not Gods ..if that offends you will have to make a decision if this is your site or not We are not going to argue denominational interpretations whether they Catholic, protestant, or anything in between you can discuss your personal religious doctrine's in your church of choice.

 

[jonnycool]

It's not exactly a innocent individual when someone is preaching a single / multiple false doctrines.
I believe in sola scripture and scripture is all I have used to date, where do you find fault? If you would explain then instead of a bonefire and ashes you might get a convert. Love is kind after all Jordan.
...if that offends you will have to make a decision if this is your site or not...
No Christina, nothing offends me.

And, where people are I'm at home. Nothing offends me because I believe in the scriptures and scripture tells me, "The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD." PR 16:1.That I want to be with people and tell them what I believe is important to me. I believe I preach only scripture and preaching scripture to those who know the scriptures is a place of safety. How do I know I'm wrong until someone explains it to me?Having a go at me isn't helpful, explanations are. PR 9:9 Instruct a wise man and he will be wiser still; teach a righteous man and he will add to his learning.Tell me, where have I stepped out of scripture Christina? The Church of God resides in all the denominations but the Children of God will hold the same beliefs, John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
Gods Word says ONE THING HE HAS ONE PLAN if you chose to view that plan and his Word filtered through a Religious denomination that is your choice
EPH 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will...That is exactly as I have been saying Christina, everything is as God wants it to be according to His plan. Rom 9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.john.

 

[Christina]

I wouldnt even know where to start the fact one gives scripture and then comes to some off the wall conclusion as to what it means/ says. Presenting some doctrine that no one could possibly understand without being a member of your church is not Sola Scripture. Gods word is for all if one must attend your church to understand your doctrine you are not following Gods Word but mens religion. God is not the author of confusion. And your doctrine is confusion, (not understood if not from your church)

 

[Follower]

Scripture only:Romans 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.What does that mean?

 

[ActionJackson]

(Follower;62007)
Predestination and Preterism are separate doctrines.
You're exactly right. Two very different topics altogether. Preterism deals with prophecy and the timing of prophecy. A preterist believes that all biblical prophecy has already taken place. This is certainly a false conclusion as it is clear that Satan is not in chains at our time in history. Predestination has to do with God's knowledge of the future and whether or not He already knows who will be accepted into His Kingdom and fold. The key here is that God knows but man does not. Someone asked the question: "if everything is already predetermined to happen a certain way then why should we do anything at all?" (paraphrased). The reason is that we also have the gift of free will and we, as men and women, do not know what God knows. We must still strive to do God's will in all things. John 10:27, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"

 

[ActionJackson]

The Bible is a story. It's God's story or His Story (history). It deals with matters past, present, and future. God has revealed the details of events to come. At the time that the prophets of old wrote many of these prophecies down, none had come to pass. God's Word is truth. God's revelation of events to come speaks volumes in favor of the doctrine of predestination. If they don't occur exactly as God has said they would, then His Word is not true. If they do occur exactly as He has said they would, then they were destined to occur exactly as God foretold that they would. If God already knows the details of the events to come then He already knows who will be involved in those events. He knows the part that Satan will play; he knows the part that the antichrist (plural) will play; he knows the part that the Antichrist (singular) will play; he knows what the angels will do upon Christ's return; He knows who the tares will be at that time and who the wheat are (Matthew 13:37-43). I do accept the doctrine of predestination but I reject the doctrine of preterism. Matthew 13:37-43, "He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

 

[jonnycool]

Hello Follower.
Scripture only:Romans 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.What does that mean?
"Whats He mean?" He means what He says.

What we do has nothing to do with what He does.ISA 65:1 "I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me; I was found by those who did not seek me. To a nation that did not call on my name, I said, `Here am I, here am I.'God reveals Himself to those He wants to and He hides Himself from those He wants to. It doesn't matter about our wishes. If we want salvation then that, in itself, has nothing to do with salvation.The question remains, do you believe Jesus died for you? If you believe Jesus died for you then whoever believes is saved.john.

 

[jonnycool]

Action, nice to meet you.English words have a meaning, who gave you authority to change the meaning of predestined.Predestined means exactly what it says, destined before the event. It does not mean God knows what is going to happen but that God determines what is to be.john.

 

[jonnycool]

Action.
"if everything is already predetermined to happen a certain way then why should we do anything at all?" (paraphrased). The reason is that we also have the gift of free will and we, as men and women, do not know what God knows. We must still strive to do God's will in all things.
Why strive to do God's will? Don't you believe Jesus died for our sins? Would you have us under law again?Everything is predetermined. I am a determinist. That absolves me of any denomination.

Why strive to do God's will? Don't you believe Jesus died for our sins? If you believe Jesus died for your sins then why the striving? What are you striving for? If Jesus died for your sins then you have nothing to answer for have you?What do you mean by free will?john.

 

[jonnycool]

Jordan.
God does not care about grammar.
I'm working class and know little about grammar, but I spell it right, and I know God cares about grammar. He is the Word.Who do you think you are, telling me what God cares about or not? Such humility.
The only thing you don't understand is you have two bodies.
You might say that but you haven't explained why I have two bodies.It is quite possible that my spirit is the same shape as my physisical body but scripture does not support my belief. Where in scripture can I prove this? I believe the spirit realm is very similar to our world but scripture does not talk much about the spiritual realm.
I'll answer your question. God transform us to His image (spiritually) because we want to serve Him and accept Him to our life, although we are in the image of God physically, even before we are born.
That's just what you say. Give me the scriptures that supports your view. As far as I can see all I see is that unless we are born again we cannot see. That the sinful mind is at emnity with God, (Rom 8:7), and cannot submit to Him. Isn't that what the bible says? How can we be in the image of God before we are born if we are not in the image of God after? GE 5:3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.If we are to be transformed into the likeness of God how comes we are already in His likeness?john.

 

[jonnycool]

Jordan.
Ever heard of Free Will. It's ones choice. And you are making God a liar. Post #40.
Ever heard that man is sovereign over God? Is God Sovereign, (the truth), or does man believe he can choose to be sovereign, (the lie?). Whose the liar, one who believes God bosses or one that believes in man's free will? When do you get born and when do you die. Sure, free will reigns.
I was born AFTER 70 AD, accept Christ AFTER 70 AD.
Work it out man. Did Jesus die for your sins or not? If He died for your sins in whatever 'ad' what has accepting Christ got to do with anything?If He died for your sins then He died for your sins. What can you die for?

What?If Jesus Christ died for your sins then what can you die for?john.

 

[ActionJackson]

(jonnycool;62500)
Action, nice to meet you. English words have a meaning, who gave you authority to change the meaning of predestined. Predestined means exactly what it says, destined before the event. It does not mean God knows what is going to happen but that God determines what is to be. john.
Not too sure that I set out to change the meaning of anything. Would you agree that if God has determined what will be that He also "knows" what will be?

 

[ActionJackson]

(jonnycool;62503)
Action. Why strive to do God's will? Don't you believe Jesus died for our sins? Would you have us under law again?Everything is predetermined. I am a determinist. That absolves me of any denomination.

Why strive to do God's will? Don't you believe Jesus died for our sins? If you believe Jesus died for your sins then why the striving? What are you striving for? If Jesus died for your sins then you have nothing to answer for have you? What do you mean by free will?john.
So, using your logic, if someone offered me some hard drugs, I may was well take them as Christ's work is done? Is that what you are saying? I accepted Jesus Christ and believed in His divinity somewhere in the mid 80s. I've been presented with options from that time forward. Around 15 years after I quit drinking at the age of 24, I chose to pick up the bottle again. That was my choice and it was a poor one. During my time "off of the wagon" I distanced myself from Jesus Christ and willingly committed many sins. After two years of that, I made a conscious decision to turn back to Jesus Christ. Again, I made a choice. Repentence is a choice. If someone were to ask if I would like hard drugs today, I would consciously choose not to take them for Christ's sake.

 

[jonnycool]

Hello Action.
Not too sure that I set out to change the meaning of anything.
You did though.

Predestined does not mean you know the future but the future is as One has determined.
Would you agree that if God has determined what will be that He also "knows" what will be?
Of course, it goes without saying. If God has determined the future He knows what the future will be.john.

 

[ActionJackson]

jonnycool;62543]Hello Action.
Howdy
You did though.

Predestined does not mean you know the future but the future is as One has determined.
I realize that I don't know the future as stated by my earlier post. However, I did say that God knows the future. If God knows the future then that would have to mean that He sees destiny.
Of course, it goes without saying. If God has determined the future He knows what the future will be.
Agreed. Tim :cross2: