Predestination...barn-yard simple!

[jonnycool]

Jordan.
Ever heard of Free Will. It's ones choice. And you are making God a liar.
I'm sorry if you don't like what I'm saying but I accept what you say as coming from God. PR 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.Of course I've heard of free will. Free will is man being sovereign in his dreams.
And you are making God a liar.
How so? He says from the beginning that no man should be able to reach out his hand and take everlasting life, Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."John 6:65 He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."JN 6:66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.john.

 

[Christina]

Im saying that spirit/ soul is our natural state we were created as souls/spirit we will return to soul/spirit. This the meaning of 1 cor. 15:50 -52It is also the part of us that returns to Lord upon death.Why then are we in these flesh/clay bodies? Im trying to show you how predestination and free will work together. The Bible does not teach predestination it teaches free will yet predestination exists. He only predestined some the Elect all others have free will to choose him or not otherwise we would be nothing but puppets. There would have been no need for clay bodies if he already knew us (in our soul state)What does he want from us ?Above all he wants our love. Love only comes through free will.

 

[Jordan]

(jonnycool;62103)
Jordan.(Jordan;62101)
Ever heard of Free Will. It's ones choice. And you are making God a liar.
I'm sorry if you don't like what I'm saying but I accept what you say as coming from God. PR 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.Of course I've heard of free will. Free will is man being sovereign in his dreams.(Jordan;62101)
...And you are making God a liar.
How so? He says from the beginning that no man should be able to reach out his hand and take everlasting life, Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."John 6:65 He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."JN 6:66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.john.You accept everything being said whethers yours or mine or other people? Am I correct?I John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

[jonnycool]

Jordan.
You accept everything being said whethers yours or mine or other people? Am I correct?
I accept all inputs I receive as God's providence to me. Everything I see and smell and hear and everything is as God wants me to recieve.I do not accept everything as true.

God sends lying spirits out and a the end He will send a great delusion. I do not accept everything as good but I accept it as God's providence, His caring for me.Do you believe what God says in Genesis 3:22? ..."He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."john.

 

[jonnycool]

I'm rather partial to my bit of clay Christina. Blowed if I want to be floating around like a ghost.
Im trying to show you how predestination and free will work together.
They oppose one another. Either God is Sovereign or man is. Sovereignty resides in the choice.Either God determines our destiny or we do.I'm off to sleep. Thanks for the talk you two.john.

 

[Christina]

Good night but tomarrow Ill show you have more than one body you are more than flesh you are made in the image of God and the Angels you are Body mind/heart and soul/spirit you are all this. And sorry but the soul is not a ghost it has substance the same way Christ could eat be touched after he rose. The same way Angels can be men, remember manna is Angels food they eat. They are substance as is your soul/spirit

 

[tim_from_pa]

I must be psychic. Like I said earlier (in bold),They both coexist.Yeah, "but" don't try to figure it out. That's man's pompous limited reasoning that tries to side with one or the other only.....In this case, I am saying that there are circumstances where the colors red and blue are the same, and don't try to fight it. That's just the way it is because that's what God said.Here's a verse for predestinationists:Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,And one for those that believe in free choice:choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.Now fight it out.And the saga continues. This is almost as bad as the rapture stuff.

 

[jonnycool]

Hello Christina.I don't believe in the pre-existence of our souls/spirits. God said, In the beginning He created...So there was a beginning.Scripture does not support this theory and as Isaiah says, To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn. Is 8:20.So, if you can prove from scripture that we existed before the beginning then I will review it, otherwise you're flogging a dead horse. Scripture alone determines my belief.I've noticed how so many Christians get this point wrong: ...you are more than flesh you are made in the image of God... post #46.Adam was made in the image of God but we are made in the image of Adam. Even my own minister has said as you have, and I have the greatest of respect for him, but, in this, he is wrong.GE 5:1 This is the written account of Adam's line. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man. "1. GE 5:3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.2. If we are created in the image of God why is there a need to transform us into the image of God? 2 Cor 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.transform: to change into another form... ( http://www.studylight.org/desk/view.cgi?number=3339 )john.

 

[Jordan]

Here a a "wise" saying of mine. (and probably some others)Opinions are opinions, and opinions cometh from men. God has no opinions.

 

[jonnycool]

If I get you right Jordan then what Jesus said is of no value: Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:32.But that is just an opinion.john.

 

[jonnycool]

I must be psychic.
You boast tim? PR 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Don't you know?
They both coexist.
Predestination and man's free will both coexist? Cool. Then God is Sovereign and man is sovereign. Too many chiefs and not enough indians I wouldn't wonder.

Now fight it out.
Only if you play by the rules.
And the saga continues.
saga noun (sagas) 1 a medieval prose tale of the deeds of legendary Icelandic or Norwegian heroes and events. 2 any long detailed story, especially a piece of modern serialized fiction depicting successive generations of the same family. 3 colloq a long series of events. ETYMOLOGY: 18c: Norse.http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/f...saga&title=21stIf it's such a bore why take a part? To me, scripture is life or death and the theology spinning off of scripture is dark or light.Answer my point please: Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. Col 3:11.

The rules, scripture rules.john.

 

[Christina]

(jonnycool;62186)
Hello Christina.I don't believe in the pre-existence of our souls/spirits. God said, In the beginning He created...So there was a beginning.Scripture does not support this theory and as Isaiah says, To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn. Is 8:20.So, if you can prove from scripture that we existed before the beginning then I will review it, otherwise you're flogging a dead horse. Scripture alone determines my belief.I've noticed how so many Christians get this point wrong: ...you are more than flesh you are made in the image of God... post #46.Adam was made in the image of God but we are made in the image of Adam. Even my own minister has said as you have, and I have the greatest of respect for him, but, in this, he is wrong.GE 5:1 This is the written account of Adam's line. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man. "1. GE 5:3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.2. If we are created in the image of God why is there a need to transform us into the image of God? 2 Cor 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.transform: to change into another form... ( http://www.studylight.org/desk/view.cgi?number=3339 )john.
Well then you dont know scripture if you dont bellieve we have a soul/spirit body and if you dont understand these simple truths then you really should not be debating these topics that even some scholars wrestle with. You are in that case only giving an uneducated opinion on God Word and that is a dangerous thing if you mistakenly mislead one you are responsable. What do you think it means when we are told: 1.to be absent from the body is to be present with Lord.? 2.Fear not him that can kill your flesh body fear him that can kill your soul3. Flesh and blood can not enter heaven4. All will be changed in the twinkling of an eye 5. 1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.6. Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. do you believe God is a trinity if so you were made in his image

 

[Jordan]

(Jordan;62188)
Here a a "wise" saying of mine. (and probably some others)Opinions are opinions, and opinions cometh from men. God has no opinions.
May I repeat my earlier post.

 

[jonnycool]

Hello Christina.
Well then you dont know scripture if you dont bellieve we have a soul/spirit body and if you dont understand these simple truths then you really should not be debating these topics that even some scholars wrestle with.
Your gammar leaves you wide open Christina.

If the scholars have trouble then what of you?I know I have a body. I kow of my spiritual nature but do you know what the soul is? If so please explain it using scripture.God is Trinity and can be proved from the first words of Genesis. Jesus is God the Son and His Father is The Father and the Holy Spirit proceeds from them One.

I am an orthodox Christian and as such reject such an heresy such as a pre-existent spirit life. Don't pick on me.6. Answer the question please: Why transform us into the Image of God if we are already created in the image of God? 2 Cor 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.john.

 

[Jordan]

(jonnycool;62201)
Hello Christina.(Christina;62198)
Well then you dont know scripture if you dont bellieve we have a soul/spirit body and if you dont understand these simple truths then you really should not be debating these topics that even some scholars wrestle with....
Your gammar leaves you wide open Christina.

If the scholars have trouble then what of you?I know I have a body. I kow of my spiritual nature but do you know what the soul is? If so please explain it using scripture.God is Trinity and can be proved from the first words of Genesis. Jesus is God the Son and His Father is The Father and the Holy Spirit proceeds from them One.

I am an orthodox Christian and as such reject such an heresy such as a pre-existent spirit life. Don't pick on me.6. Answer the question please: Why transform us into the Image of God if we are already created in the image of God? 2 Cor 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.john.God does not care about grammar. The only thing you don't understand is you have two bodies.I'll answer your question. God transform us to His image (spiritually) because we want to serve Him and accept Him to our life, although we are in the image of God physically, even before we are born.Lastly, God is NOT three people.

 

[jonnycool]

May I repeat my earlier post.Originally Posted by Jordan Here a a "wise" saying of mine. (and probably some others)Opinions are opinions, and opinions cometh from men. God has no opinions.
Jordan, repeat away, it has nothing to do with me but I would like to express my opinion again as well: ...you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:32.But that is just an opinion of Jesus. Jesus thought the truth could be realised and truth is truth. Hold whatever you want but if it doesn't speak according to scripture then it's darkness. Is 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.john.

 

[Jordan]

(jonnycool;62203)
(Jordan;62200)
(Jordan;62188)
Here a a "wise" saying of mine. (and probably some others)Opinions are opinions, and opinions cometh from men. God has no opinions.
May I repeat my earlier post.Jordan, repeat away, it has nothing to do with me but I would like to express my opinion again as well: ...you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:32.But that is just an opinion of Jesus. Jesus thought the truth could be realised and truth is truth. Hold whatever you want but if it doesn't speak according to scripture then it's darkness. Is 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.john.Like you perhaps.

I think you shouldn't be judging doctrines yourself because it seems you can't discern good and evil correctly.

 

[Christina]

I said even some scholars because the answers are not in the words of men but come from the Words of God and the amount of Wisdom he gives one. And I already answered your question We are made in the image of God we are body,spirit and soul First, Scripture differentiates the origin of the soul from the origin of the body Ecclesiastes 12:7;1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.Hebrews 4:12, “For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” This Scripture tells us at least two thing about this debate. (1) The soul and spirit can be divided. (2) The division of soul and spirit is something that only the Word of God can discern. We can be sure that as human beings, we possess a body, a soul, a spirit2Cr 5:8 We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. To be absent from the body is to be dead ... if we are dead, we present before the Lord however flesh and blood can not enter heaven... so how are you present if you have no soul/spirit ?Psa 89:48 What man [is he that] liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave?

 

[jonnycool]

Hi Jordan.
God does not care about grammar.
Of course God cares about grammar, He is the Word. Your sentence wouldn't make sense otherwise.I can say to my son, "That's wicked." And he would be happy.I could say to another person, "That's wicked." And they would be ashamed. We know how to talk to each other, stop the picking please. Discussion forums are to concentrate on form, grammer is important otherwise no one can understand another.
The only thing you don't understand is you have two bodies.
The only thing? You do me honour. Yes sure, that's what I told the cops but it didn't wash with them.If you want we could speak about the spiritual but scripture has very little to do with the spirit nature of man or spiritual beings. Scripture treats us as men, physisical beings as Christ is now and will be forever more. He became Man and will remain Man forever more. Praise be to God for making me a man just like my Brother Jesus.My Brother Jesus is God.

How cool is that? God made Himself in our image, after our likeness to bring us into His, PHP 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death-- even death on a cross!If God can humble Himself you can with God's input.
Lastly, God is NOT three people.
I never said He was. God is One. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He is, however, Three Beings.john.,

 

[jonnycool]

And I already answered your question We are made in the image of God we are body,spirit and soul
And God has answered you. He says He will transform the elect into His Image so we cannot be in the image of God to begin with. We undergo a metamorphosis when we are born again:metamorphosis noun (metamorphoses) 1 a change of form, appearance, character, etc; a transformation. 2 biol the change of physical form that occurs during the development into adulthood of some creatures, eg butterflies. ETYMOLOGY: 16c: from meta- + Greek morphe form + -osis.
First, Scripture differentiates the origin of the soul from the origin of the body Ecclesiastes 12:7;
He 'differentiates' the fate not the origin.

I know about the spirit, soul and body? So what? (third para) I do not deny the spirit, soul and body, I just know what they are. What the spirit and soul are is given by you in your next para.
We can be sure that as human beings, we possess a body, a soul, a spirit
And we are in agreement. Why say it as if I did not believe it?

2Cr 5:8 We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Sure thing. The spirits of the slain are recorded in Revelation as speaking.
To be absent from the body is to be dead ... if we are dead, we present before the Lord however flesh and blood can not enter heaven... so how are you present if you have no soul/spirit ?
Your notion is fanciful. When Christ died the curtain was torn in two. We are present face to face with our Father now. I have entered heaven now as a man with a spirit and soul.I never said I have no spirit or soul. Now tell me, what is the connection between the soul and the spirit please? Hebrews will tell you.john.