Premillennialism contradicts scripture (1 Corinthians 15:50-54) by having mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God when Jesus returns.
- Thread starter Spiritual Israelite
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Lol. Numerous Scripture above exposes this lie. Your avoidance is deafening. There is so much Scripture that you have had to duck around on this thread. It is clear for all to see that you are fighting the Book. All you have now is your extra-biblical statements and frustrated rants because you have no answers to the truth.
You know you are fighting truth. That is why you have nothing to bring to the table of biblical worth and why you are desperate to run. Your doctrine is in tatters.
That's not how to answer a question. Answer my question first and then you can ask your own question.
This is the weakest, most evasive answer to a question that I've seen in a long time. It's also quite disturbing to see someone say that it doesn't matter what Jesus is doing now. Wow. That says it all about your beliefs.
That is how his theology works. He thinks up a crazy idea and then he tries to get the Bible to support it. When it doesn't, he avoids and runs.
You make the Bible say what your imaginations think. What a sad way to approach Scripture. You are totally bereft of biblical proof.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Jesus' parable of the mina is predicated on the fact that the Kingdom of God was not present during his lifetime. His parable is based on historical events. One such event took place when Herod went to Rome to receive a kingdom. Just as Herod didn't rule over Judea before he returned, Jesus does rule over his enemies until he returns.
Jesus is the head of his church. David's throne is not in heaven. It is on Earth.
False. The Son of Man prophecy originates from Psalm 8 and Daniel 7, where Jesus is depicted standing before the throne of God to receive a kingdom. "Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him." Until you can say that all the dominions currently serve him, then you are compelled to admit that Jesus is not yet enthroned.
You don't understand my argument. I never said that Christ has not been granted all authority. I maintain that Christ has not yet begun to rule. It is just as Jesus said in his parable of the Minas, like the nobleman who went to a far country to receive a kingdom, Jesus went up to heaven to receive his kingdom. And just as Herod was given authority over Judea while he was in Rome, Jesus was given authority to rule over the world while he is in heaven. And just as Herod didn't begin his rule until he returned to Judea, Jesus will not begin his rule until he returns to the Earth.
The passage you quote speaks to Jesus' role as leader of his Church. It does not speak to is role as king of the Earth. Jesus has not yet subdued his enemies.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Why do you acknowledge that Jesus is the head of His church right now, but you do not acknowledge that all current things are under Him right now when Paul indicated that the timing of all things having been put under Him was the same as the timing of Him being made the head over all things in the church?
Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
While Christ (in his overriding wisdom) allows devils to influence humans, He is ultimately in sovereign control over all of them. Man cannot do what he wants to do. He can only do what is in line with the prevailing will of God. Satan cannot do what he wants to do. He can only do what is in line with the prevailing will of God
Wicked humans and wicked devils are all under his feet. He is maneuvering everything according to his sovereign will for His glory and our benefit. No one can thwart his plan and purposes.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Be specific.
Prove your accusations.
You have a wild imagination.
You can't show anyone here that Jesus is currently ruling over his enemies.
You can't demonstrate why my interpretation of the Parable of the Mina is incorrect. I can continue to stack up examples that disprove Amillennialism all day.
Here is another one.
Acts 3:19-21 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.
Peter was addressing a Jewish audience in Jerusalem, urging them to repent so that they could experience the blessings of God’s promised restoration. The Greek word for "restoration" (ἀποκατάστασις) was often used to refer to the return of Israel to its former glory, aligning with prophetic expectations of a Messianic renewal. Many Old Testament prophets spoke of a time when Israel would be restored, both spiritually and nationally, under God's rule.
Peter connects this restoration to Jesus' return, stating that He must remain in heaven until this time arrives. This suggests that the full restoration—which includes Israel—was still future. Some scholars see this as referring to the Messianic Kingdom, where Jesus will reign and fulfill the promises made to Israel.
Yes, he can and he has, but you ignore our arguments. Does He have all power in heaven and in earth, but somehow not have power over His enemies?
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Is Jesus in a position "far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named", but somehow not far above His enemies? Did God the Father "put all things under his feet" except for His enemies?
Ephesians 2:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
You have no trouble acknowledging that Jesus is "the head over all things to the church", but somehow you deny that He is ruling "ar above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named" with "all things under his feet" at the same time despite Paul clearly teaching that.
We have demonstrated many times the difference between His spiritual kingdom that we are in now and the kingdom that will manifest in its fullness when He returns, but you ignore all of our arguments. You have disproved absolutely nothing.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Don't you know what it means when someone answers the question with a question? I often use this rhetorical technique to shift the discussion and highlight a point that disproves your position.
My question comes from the Parable of the Minas, where Jesus says that he is like the nobleman who will go off to a far country to receive a kingdom. His example comes from history, when Herod the Great went to Rome to receive a kingdom from Rome. While he was in Rome, he didn't rule over Judea. He didn't rule over Judea until he arrived back home.
Your question is a loaded question in that it assumes the point you are defending. I took it as a rhetorical question. I have already answered the question based on my exegesis of the Parable. Just like Herod received authority while he was in Rome, Jesus received authority while he was in heaven. And just as Herod began to rule over Judea after he returned, Jesus will rule over the earth when he returns.
Yes, it means you have no answer to my question and that you would rather talk about something else than just admit that you have no answer.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
You answered the wrong question. You proved what everyone already knows. Jesus has been granted authority above all other authorities. But that isn't the question at hand. The question at hand is whether Jesus has begun to reign.
The Roman Senate granted Herod the Great official authority, but he did not begin his actual rule over Judea until he returned and secured his position. This illustrates the political structure of the time, where local rulers required imperial approval to exercise power. Jesus taught his disciples that he was going away to a "far country" to receive a kingdom, similar to the nobleman and to Herod. Just as Herod was given official authority while he was in Rome, Jesus was granted official authority while he was in heaven. Similarly, just as Herod returned to Judea to solidify his rule, Jesus will return to Earth to establish His reign.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Did I talk about something else? I don't think I did that. We were both talking about Jesus going away to "a far country" to receive a kingdom. Jesus' parable indicates that the purpose of his ascension was to be granted official authority over a kingdom. Just as Herod traveled to Rome to seek authority to rule over Judea, Jesus traveled to heaven to seek authority over the Earth. Just as Rome granted Herod authority, Jesus was granted authority by his Father. And just as Herod traveled back to Judea to enforce his authority, Jesus will return to earth to enforce his authority.
Why would Jesus be granted authority only to not be able to use it at all for another 2,000 years, at least? That's complete nonsense.
You need to answer the question of why you believe that He is now the head of all things in the church but does not now have all things under His rule? Paul taught that after He was resurrected and was set at the right hand of the Father it meant that God had "put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church" (Ephesians 1:22). Why do you accept the second part of that verse as being a current reality, but not the first part?
Yes, you did. Nowhere did you say what you think Jesus is doing right now. That was my question.
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