Premillennialism contradicts scripture (1 Corinthians 15:50-54) by having mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God when Jesus returns.
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CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
I know that God allows things to happen, but he always has a good purpose for doing so. And I also realize that I am not privy to his reasons, but I trust him and lean on his character.
I understood your argument the first time you made it. I disagree with it because it overlooks the humanity of Jesus. Even as we acknowledge that Christ's divine nature is a central tenet of Christianity, our understanding of his mission, teachings, and redemption is deeply intertwined with his humanity. His humanity makes His authority, suffering, and victory relatable to us. Because He took on flesh, lived among us, and walked the path of suffering and glorification, we can grasp the depths of His love and His role as the true mediator.
Given that he manifests the divine nature through his humanity, it makes sense for him to be granted authority, rise up to heaven to receive authority, and return to Earth to manifest and enforce his authority.
In a previous post we discussed the fact that
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
- Where in Zechariah 14 is a thousand years mentioned?
- Where in Zechariah 14 is the new earth mentioned?
- Where in Zechariah 14 are the glorified saints mentioned?
- Where in Zechariah 14 is Jesus shown to be on earth?
- Where in Zechariah 14 is the binding of Satan?
- Where in Zechariah 14 are the 2 resurrections/judgments?
- Where in Zechariah 14 is the release of Satan and an unparalleled global uprising 1,000 years after the second coming?
- Could any Premil please do a detailed comparison between Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20 (the two main often-presented Premil proof texts)?
Where is the millennium mentioned in Micah 4?
When did/does the last days begin? When did/does the last days end? When is "the last day"? What happens on it?
Once again, you totally avoid what I ask. That is your pattern.
Where in Revelation 20 (or anywhere else) teaches that "God the Father will rule through God the Son and establish a theocracy"?
Where in Revelation 20 or elsewhere does it say that "the people in the millennium do not have the Holy Spirit within like we do. They are of the nations, NOT being formed into a Body"?
This comparison of Herod to Jesus is ridiculous. Herod did not dwell in the hearts of his followers. Herod didn't have all power in heaven and earth with the ability to do anything he wanted anywhere at any time like Jesus does. If you understood that Jesus is God like Christians do, then you would not have so much trouble understanding how Jesus can rule over the earth even while bodily being in heaven. He is not just a man, but is also God.
No, He did not frequently do that. There is no reason whatsoever that you couldn't have just answered my question. You always try to find excuses for not answering questions.
You are wrong. Christians know exactly what He is doing right now because He is not just a man, but also is God. He is dwelling in people's hearts right now showing them how He wants them to live and leading them to follow His commands and giving people the strength to lead others to salvation.
You clearly have no understanding of verses like these...
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
You think Jesus is just up there in heaven doing who knows what while Christians understand that He dwells within us and works through us every day. Without Him, we can do nothing fruitful, but through Him and the strength He gives us we can do all things that He wants us to do.
You understanding of sovereignty is completely flawed. You define it as meaning it involves controlling everything that happens. You think being sovereign can't include being the One who decides what can happen and what can't, but that shows a lack of understanding of what sovereignty is.
You avoided every point I made. This is how you engage. All you have is your opinions. You seem incapable of exegeting any scriptural passage properly.
Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants (the Old Testament prophets), and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first (more Old Testament prophets): and they did unto them likewise.
Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son (Christ Jesus), saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him (Calvary).
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
Mat 21:46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.
The meaning of this parable is very clear. The disciples grasped it easily. Those that have eyes to see and ears to hear will grasp it. This is teaching about the approaching day of reckoning for man. It all concludes at the coming of Jesus Christ. This is when the righteous are rewarded and the wicked are punished. It is the end. The coming of the Lord is a climatic event. There's no space for your imaginary future millennium. It is all in your head.
This final event sees the wicked judged and destroyed. They are then cast into the lake of fire.
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So true. The good news is, the observer is seeing what we are seeing.
Listen to Peter preaching on Psalm 110:1, when speaking about David and his throne, says, “For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance [referring to Psalms 16:8-10]. Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne [referring to Psalms 132:12]; he seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption [referring to Psalms 16:10]. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, the Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou on my right hand, until I make thy foes thy footstool [referring to Psalm 110:1]. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ” (Acts 2:25-36).
Peter shows us that Psalm 110:1 is currently being fulfilled since Christ destroyed the power of the grave, and ascended to the right hand of majesty on high. No objective Bible student could fail to see the focus and message of this narrative. This reading is concentrated upon the victory of the resurrection of Christ nearly 2,000 years ago and the resulting current kingly Messianic reign of Christ at “the right hand of God exalted” in heaven. It confirms that Israel’s Messiah now sits enthroned upon David’s throne and locates the timing of His assumption of the same to after “the resurrection of Christ.” As Messiah, Christ fulfilled every human demand of Him, thus rightfully assuming the kingship of Israel through His impeccable life, His atoning death and His glorious resurrection.
Christ taking David’s throne does not refer to Him sitting on some long-preserved literal physical in the Middle East (as non-believing Jews and Premils apply this to in the future), but rather Him taking His rightful spiritual place and assuming His heavenly authority over the people of God and fulfilling the Messianic prophecies as Israel’s true king. As we see in the New Testament, the people of God or true Israel does not relate exclusively to a physical race but to spiritual grace on God’s elect. Peter is showing that Christ now reigns over His people in fulfilment of the Old Testament predictions.
Peter made it clear that Christ was currently sitting “by the right hand of God exalted.” He immediately demonstrated that this was the fulfilment of the Messianic hope. We see this in the fact he quotes Psalm 110 as part of his argument in Acts 2:34-35.
We see Christ exposing the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, in Matthew 22:42-46, when He asked, “What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.”
Here He employs the Old Testament passage in Psalm 110:1 to impress His point. In His last question, Christ was here specifically referring to the great mystery of His eternal Sonship (or His pre-existence in all eternity) – a truth that evidently perplexed the religious Pharisees. The religious Pharisees had absolutely no grasp of that great truth. They had no comprehension that He was both before and after David. The answer to the enquiry was that He was before David (being the root of David) in His divine office as the eternal Son of God; therefore, David called Him Lord. Nevertheless, He was also his offspring in a natural sense, through the incarnation at Bethlehem, and was therefore a son of David by way of lineage.
He was also revealing the duality of His nature. As the Son of David, He was showing them His humanity, as the Son of God He was revealing His Deity. This discourse also revealed Christ’s eternal Sonship. Notwithstanding, such teaching confused the religious Pharisees. As man, He has assumed the throne of David, as God He has assumed the Father’s throne. This is speaking about authority. He has totally fulfilled every demand as man and God and He therefore reigns on high upon the throne of David and His Father’s throne.
It is clear from Matthew 22:42-46 that Christ applies this text to Himself thus rightly claiming the dualistic divine offices of king and of priest for Himself. It was still prior to His atoning death and glorious ascent to the throne, but He explicitly draws their eyes towards His person. In doing so, He was also revealing the duality of His nature. As the Son of David, He was showing them His humanity, as the Son of God He was revealing His Deity. This discourse also revealed Christ’s eternal Sonship. Notwithstanding, such teaching confused the religious Pharisees.
More projection! That is what you do.
This is nothing in this parable to do with Herod and Rome. You make it up as you go. That's because you have zero support.
After Christ had visited Zacchaeus’ house and after making that familiar statement: “the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost,” Christ outlined a parable in Luke 19:10-15 relating to a nobleman. The purpose of such was to explain the nature and significance of the Kingdom of God because (1) “he was nigh to Jerusalem,” and (2) because the disciples “thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.”
Calvary was now looming and it was time to enlighten them on the matter and dispel any ambiguity existing among the disciples as to the character of the Kingdom.
Christ declares, “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us” (Luke 19:12).
The reference in this parable to the “nobleman” who “went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return” clearly relates to the Lord Jesus Christ and His ascension into heaven. This assumption is supported by the words of Christ at the end of this parable (in verse 27) when He personalizes the story of the ‘certain nobleman’ by saying, “those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.”
Another significant point relating to this “certain nobleman” is that whilst He goes away for an unspecified period, He will assuredly return. In verse 12 it affirms, that He is going “to return” and in verse 13 we see the instruction, “Occupy till I come.” This again assures us that this same Jesus that ascended up into heaven will one-day return again and judge the world. In fact, this whole parable is focused upon the judgement.
The time period in question, where these servants operate, is the Gospel age. The servants are those who profess Christ and who will either be caught up or caught on at His coming. This parable impresses upon us all that there is a future day in which actions and motives of all will be righteously examined.
Those who reject Christ’s reign in their lives are the enemies of God (whether Jew or Gentile) and will thus face eternal judgement on that day.
Christ reveals the remainder of this parable, in verses 12, saying, “when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.”
Three type of servants are then advanced to represent the judgement. Here we see their respective responses to the nobleman and His judgement.
(1) “Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.”
(2) “And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.”
(3) “And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow. And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury? And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds. (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)”
The final servant in this parable clearly had a wrong understanding of the nobleman and who He was. He evidently had no intimate relationship with Him but was rather a superficial acquaintance. The statement of this impostor at the nobleman’s coming revealed that ignorance, stating, “For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.”
The Lord concludes this parable by applying it to the listener, saying, “For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.”
We see in this parable, in consistent keeping with every other parable Christ taught, that there is a finality to His coming. Also, this coming is accompanied by a final general judgement of ALL saved and lost. Those enemies of Christ and His Gospel are brought before life’s righteous judge who destroys that which is not truly His.
Your false religion is what leads you to not understand who Jesus is. He is God and He is the King of kings and Lord of lords right now. You are absolutely wrong. The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ. He is One with the Son and the Father. Jesus is not referring to a different "paraclete" that would come. He was talking about the Spirit of the Father and of the Son coming to dwell in the hearts of believers.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Notice here how Jesus said the Father would sent them another Comforter and then Jesus said He would not leave them comfortless and that He would come to them. That shows the unity of the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son, which you do not understand or accept.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Notice here how Jesus said He and the Father would come and dwell in them. That again shows the unity of the Spirit, Father and Son as one God. Which you deny.
Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.
In this passage Paul refer to the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ interchangeably. He is the same Spirit and is One with God the Father and God the Son. Do you have the Spirit of Christ in you? If not, then you do not belong to Christ.
He is spiritually in the hearts of all of His followers and our enemies surround us every day. Your lack of understanding of who Jesus is prevents you from understanding how He rules with His enemies surrounding Him.
He does not have to wait until He "returns to earth to manifest and enforce his authority." He does that now. He is king now. He exercises divine power now. He holds all authority now. He rules over all creation now. He reigns over His enemies now. Everything is under His feet now.
- 1 Timothy 1:17 describes Christ as “the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God.”
- 1 Timothy 6:15 declares the supreme authority and exalted power of Christ, stating, “I give thee charge in the sight of God ... and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession ... who is the blessed and only Potentate [Gr. dunastes meaning mighty ruler or great authority], the King of kings, and Lord of lords."
- Jesus testified in Matthew 28:18 that “All power [Gr. exousia or right, privilege and authority] is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” How much more power or authority can He possess than all power and authority?
- Jesus testified in John 5:26-27: “[God] hath given him [Jesus] authority [Gr. exousia or right, privilege and authority] to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.”
- Jesus is a ruler [Gr. archon] who rules. Acts 5:30-31 confirms: “The God of our fathers raised up Jesus ... Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince [Gr. archon or ruler] and a Saviour.” Rules over what? Over all creation (Revelation 3:14). He is majestic, supreme and unchallenged in His power and authority, ruling over all creation.
- Christ “is the head of all principality and power” (Colossians 2:10).
- Ephesians 1:20 tells us that God hath “raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion."
- The “angels and authorities and powers [are] being made subject unto him,” (1 Peter 3:22 says) now.
- Christ is ruler over the kings of the earth now (Revelation 1:5).
- Christ reigns over all His enemies now and will finally subdue them when He returns (1 Corinthians 15:25-28).
- 1 Corinthians 15:25-28 and Ephesians 1:20-23 tells us that Christ “hath put (aorist active indicative) all things under his feet.”
- Jesus has spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it (the cross)" (Colossians 2:115). Hebrews 1:8 tells us that “thou hast put all things in subjection’ (aorist active indicative) under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him." There you have it!
- Christ currently “openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth" (Revelation 3:7).
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Amen.
Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
I don't see where Jesus said all authority (power) in heaven and on earth was given to Him, but that He was told not to exercise any of it until after He came back from heaven, do you? No, He said no such thing. Only someone who denies His deity and His current Kingship would try to claim that Jesus has not exercised any of His authority and power that He was given yet.
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