Premillennialism contradicts scripture (1 Corinthians 15:50-54) by having mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God when Jesus returns.

[WPM]

I don't think it is literal at all. Sitting down at the right hand of God is a metaphor for his being granted all authority over all creation.

If He enforces authority over all creation, then He is in control of all. There is nothing that He is not ruling and reigning over.

 

[WPM]

That is your claim. I understand that. But you have no evidence to support your claim.

If Jesus were ruling over his enemies at this moment, we'd expect to see tangible, observable evidence of his reign. Some possibilities might include:

1. Geopolitical Authority – A clear establishment of Jesus as a recognized sovereign ruler over nations, with undeniable political control.
2. Universal Peace – Many prophecies associated with the Messiah’s physical reign (like Isaiah 2:4) describe a world without war, where enemies are subdued and swords are turned into plowshares.
3. Divine Justice – A system of governance that enforces true righteousness, eliminating corruption and injustice in a way no earthly government has been able to achieve.
4. Visible Presence – An undeniable manifestation of Jesus in a physical, ruling capacity—one that no one could dispute.
5. Supernatural Signs – Miraculous displays of divine power affecting the global order, fulfilling eschatological prophecies (such as in Daniel 7:13-14 or Revelation 19).
6. Submission of Enemies – If he were actively ruling over his enemies, we might expect complete subjugation of opposition forces—whether political, ideological, or spiritual.

Do we see this? No. Then he is not currently ruling.

More avoidance. Once again, you ducked around every single Scripture I quoted. That is because it exposes your nonsense.

Your doctrine has been totally decimated here. You are just too proud to admit it.

He does not have to wait until He "returns to earth to manifest and enforce his authority." He does that now. He is king now. He exercises divine power now. He holds all authority now. He rules over all creation now. He reigns over His enemies now. Everything is under His feet now.

• 1 Timothy 1:17 describes Christ as “the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God.”
• 1 Timothy 6:15 declares the supreme authority and exalted power of Christ, stating, “I give thee charge in the sight of God ... and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession ... who is the blessed and only Potentate [Gr. dunastes meaning mighty ruler or great authority], the King of kings, and Lord of lords.”
• Jesus testified in Matthew 28:18 that “All power [Gr. exousia or right, privilege and authority] is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” How much more power or authority can He possess than all power and authority?
• Jesus testified in John 5:26-27: “[God] hath given him [Jesus] authority [Gr. exousia or right, privilege and authority] to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.”
• Jesus is a ruler [Gr. archon] who rules. Acts 5:30-31 confirms: “The God of our fathers raised up Jesus ... Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince [Gr. archon or ruler] and a Saviour.” Rules over what? Over all creation (Revelation 3:14). He is majestic, supreme and unchallenged in His power and authority, ruling over all creation.
• Christ “is the head of all principality and power” (Colossians 2:10).
• Ephesians 1:20 tells us that God hath “raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion."
• The “angels and authorities and powers [are] being made subject unto him,” (1 Peter 3:22 says) now.
• Christ is ruler over the kings of the earth now (Revelation 1:5).
• Christ reigns over all His enemies now and will finally subdue them when He returns (1 Corinthians 15:25-28).
• 1 Corinthians 15:25-28 and Ephesians 1:20-23 tells us that Christ “hath put (aorist active indicative) all things under his feet.”
• Jesus has spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it (the cross)" (Colossians 2:115).
• Hebrews 1:8 tells us that “thou hast put all things in subjection’ (aorist active indicative) under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him." There you have it!
• Christ currently “openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth" (Revelation 3:7).

 

[WPM]

That is your claim. I understand that. But you have no evidence to support your claim.

If Jesus were ruling over his enemies at this moment, we'd expect to see tangible, observable evidence of his reign. Some possibilities might include:

1. Geopolitical Authority – A clear establishment of Jesus as a recognized sovereign ruler over nations, with undeniable political control.
2. Universal Peace – Many prophecies associated with the Messiah’s physical reign (like Isaiah 2:4) describe a world without war, where enemies are subdued and swords are turned into plowshares.
3. Divine Justice – A system of governance that enforces true righteousness, eliminating corruption and injustice in a way no earthly government has been able to achieve.
4. Visible Presence – An undeniable manifestation of Jesus in a physical, ruling capacity—one that no one could dispute.
5. Supernatural Signs – Miraculous displays of divine power affecting the global order, fulfilling eschatological prophecies (such as in Daniel 7:13-14 or Revelation 19).
6. Submission of Enemies – If he were actively ruling over his enemies, we might expect complete subjugation of opposition forces—whether political, ideological, or spiritual.

Do we see this? No. Then he is not currently ruling.

• Jesus is king now.
• He is in sovereign control. What He allows, happens. What He disallows, does not happen.
• He holds all authority now.
• He exercises divine power now.
• He rules over all creation now.
• He reigns over His enemies now.
• Everything is under His feet now.
• He will finally and eternally subdue then when He comes.
• 
  
• He is the prince of peace.
• He govern over the affairs of man.
• He is spiritually with His people.
• He is still working signs and wonders.
• 
  
• The victory is already won.
• We are here to enforce that.
• Satan is a defeated foe.
• The Savior we serve never loses any battles to Satan.
• While God allows evil to function, He doesn’t let it triumph.
• While we fail and lose personal battles, we win the war.
• No weapon formed against us will prosper
• Satan has no power over us. But, we have power over Him.
• All things eventually work together for God's glory and our benefit.
• Light will always overcome darkness.
• We know how it all ends – we win.

We are now in Revelation 20 .

 

[Davidpt]

More avoidance!

Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants (the Old Testament prophets), and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first (more Old Testament prophets): and they did unto them likewise.
Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son (Christ Jesus), saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him (Calvary).
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
Mat 21:46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

The meaning of this parable is very clear. The disciples grasped it easily. Those that have eyes to see and ears to hear will grasp it. This is teaching about the approaching day of reckoning for man. It all concludes at the coming of Jesus Christ. This is when the righteous are rewarded and the wicked are punished. It is the end. The coming of the Lord is a climatic event. There's no space for your imaginary future millennium. It is all in your head.

This final event sees the wicked judged and destroyed. They are then cast into the lake of fire.

I can't make heads or tails out of how you are interpreting this parable? You are going on about--" This is teaching about the approaching day of reckoning for man. It all concludes at the coming of Jesus Christ. This is when the righteous are rewarded and the wicked are punished. It is the end". Then you insist this parable proves there is no millennium that follows the 2nd coming. I don't think you are even reading this parable correctly since I don't see anything in the parable involving what you seem to see it involving.

Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

What does Amil vs Premil have to do with verse 41 if you have verse 40 meaning the last day of this age? Verse 41 indicates---He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Since when do Amils, such as yourself, have seasons still taking place after the final day of this age?

Until He miserably destroys those wicked men first when He comes, He can't do this in the meantime--and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. That's meaning after He destroys those wicked men, not before He destroys them.

Did you not see this in the parable--And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them? What does that have to do with the last day of this age? It seems to me the last day of this age is not meant in verse 40, what is meant is 70 AD. As if a parable pertaining to 70 AD somehow leaves no space for there to be a millennium after the 2nd coming.

What is it about some of you around here at times? When the first century is meant, some of you want it to mean the 21st century instead. And when the 21st century is meant(Matthew 24:15-21), some of you same ones want it to mean the first century instead. That aside. Imagine that, attempting to debunk Premil via a parable involving the first century and 70 AD.

 

[Davidpt]

While Christ (in his overriding wisdom) allows devils to influence humans, He is ultimately in sovereign control over all of them. Man cannot do what he wants to do. He can only do what is in line with the prevailing will of God. Satan cannot do what he wants to do. He can only do what is in line with the prevailing will of God

Wicked humans and wicked devils are all under his feet. He is maneuvering everything according to his sovereign will for His glory and our benefit. No one can thwart his plan and purposes.

None of that matters since prince of the kings of the earth is only being applied to the saved.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am amazed that, in your enthusiasm to be "right," you so quickly ignore Jesus' explicit statement when He said that He would send "another" Paracletos.

I am amazed that you ignore that He was talking about the Holy Spirit as the Comforter and then said "I will not leave you comfortless. I will come to you", showing that He is One with the Holy Spirit. And also One with the Father because He also said "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.".

You have no excuse for not acknowledging that Jesus is God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don't think it is literal at all. Sitting down at the right hand of God is a metaphor for his being granted all authority over all creation.

So, he has all authority over all creation but hasn't exercised any of that authority for the past almost 2,000 years since it was granted to Him? That's total nonsense.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

None of that matters since prince of the kings of the earth is only being applied to the saved.

He is the prince/ruler of all of the kings of the earth. Some of them don't acknowledge it, but it's not up to them to decide who rules over all of heaven and earth, as Jesus does (Matthew 28:18, Ephesians 1:19-23).

Name one king of the earth that Jesus does not currently have authority over and does not need permission from Jesus to do what he does?

 

[WPM]

None of that matters since prince of the kings of the earth is only being applied to the saved.

Lol. Not so. I have already exposed your teaching on this. Everything you promote is governed by your faulty opinion of Revelation 20.

You poke your nose into other conversations. We refute your error and you run. The reader can easily do a search of your posts and see your MO.

 

[WPM]

He is the prince/ruler of all of the kings of the earth. Some of them don't acknowledge it, but it's not up to them to decide who rules over all of heaven and earth, as Jesus does (Matthew 28:18, Ephesians 1:19-23).

Name one king of the earth that Jesus does not currently have authority over and does not need permission from Jesus to do what he does?

Exactly. It is pointless trying to reason with someone who so blatantly, stubbornly and persistently rejects truth. He is wilfully defying known truth. He doesn't want to know.

He is not subject to any church authority. He is totally exempt from that biblical requirement. He is building his own kingdom.

It is a total waste of time trying.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No. It is the Father who went to a far country in the parable. Must you twist every truth in Good Book? That is what heretics do who deny the deity of Christ.

You are talking about Matthew 21:33-45, which talks about the Father going to a far country, but I think he was talking about Luke 19:12-27, which talks about Jesus going to a far country to receive His kingdom.

 

[Davidpt]

He is the prince/ruler of all of the kings of the earth. Some of them don't acknowledge it, but it's not up to them to decide who rules over all of heaven and earth, as Jesus does (Matthew 28:18, Ephesians 1:19-23).

Name one king of the earth that Jesus does not currently have authority over and does not need permission from Jesus to do what he does?

Come on, context, it's about context determining how to understand something.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.


You are not thinking spiritually, you are thinking carnally and that Revelation 1:5-6 has to be understood spiritually in regards to being the prince of the kings of the earth. The same kings of the earth meant in verse 6, and not also the kings of the earth that get cast into the LOF in the end. No one is saying Christ is not above all kings of the earth. But that's not what Revelation 1:5-6 is pertaining to, in regards to being the Prince of the kings of the earth.

 

[WPM]

Come on, context, it's about context determining how to understand something.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.


You are not thinking spiritually, you are thinking carnally and that Revelation 1:5-6 has to be understood spiritually in regards to being the prince of the kings of the earth. The same kings of the earth meant in verse 6, and not also the kings of the earth that get cast into the LOF in the end. No one is saying Christ is not above all kings of the earth. But that's not what Revelation 1:5-6 is pertaining to, in regards to being the Prince of the kings of the earth.

You cannot discern what is natural and spiritual. Christ is a ruler over the kings of the earth. Why is this such an offense to you? Why do you not believe that? Because Premillennialism has a big devil a small Jesus. Amillennialism has a big Jesus and a small devil.

What you do is, strip Jesus of His sovereign power today (by your faulty theology). You dethrone Him from the right hand of majesty on high. This is convenient for some, because you then have man calling the shots and God reacting to man. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Contrary to what you believe: Jesus is God. He is in sovereign control. What He allows, happens. What He disallows, does not happen. Nothing happens without His permission. He reigns as God and man now. He is at the right hand of authority and hold all power in heaven and on earth.

Jesus testified after His resurrection: “All power [or authority] is given unto me in heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18).

Jesus rules and reigns today over all creation. There is nothing that is not under His feet. What He says goes! This is biblical bedrock! This is a foundational Christian truth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Come on, context, it's about context determining how to understand something.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.


You are not thinking spiritually, you are thinking carnally

LOL. That's very ironic coming from you.

and that Revelation 1:5-6 has to be understood spiritually in regards to being the prince of the kings of the earth. The same kings of the earth meant in verse 6, and not also the kings of the earth that get cast into the LOF in the end. No one is saying Christ is not above all kings of the earth.

If you're not saying that Christ is not above all kings of the earth, then why would you deny that verse 5 is saying He is the prince (ruler) of all kings of the earth? Verse 6 does not point back to verse 5 as if believers are the only kings of the earth that Jesus reigns over.

Since you say that "No one is saying Christ is not above all kings of the earth", do you acknowledge that Jesus is the prince or ruler of all of the kings of the earth, regardless of how you interpret Revelation 1:5?

But that's not what Revelation 1:5-6 is pertaining to, in regards to being the Prince of the kings of the earth.

Yes, it is. It's referring to Him being the ruler of all things, just as other scripture teaches (Matthew 28:18, Ephesians 1:19-23).

 

[Marilyn C]

1.

I answered your question. So, again I ask....

If you believe that the Body of Christ is in the millennium on earth, please can you give me the scriptures?

 

[Marilyn C]

W

I answered your question. So, again I ask....

If you believe that the Body of Christ is in the millennium on earth, please can you give me the scriptures?

 

[Marilyn C]

Once

I answered your question. So, again I ask....

If you believe that the Body of Christ is in the millennium on earth, please can you give me the scriptures?

 

[Marilyn C]

So true. The good news is, the observer is seeing what we are seeing.

Yes, that you cannot answer -

I answered your question. So, again I ask....

If you believe that the Body of Christ is in the millennium on earth, please can you give me the scriptures?

 

[Marilyn C]

The

I answered your question. So, again I ask....

If you believe that the Body of Christ is in the millennium on earth, please can you give me the scriptures?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, that you cannot answer -

I answered your question. So, again I ask....

If you believe that the Body of Christ is in the millennium on earth, please can you give me the scriptures?

Marilyn, there is no need to ask the same question 5 posts in a row. Once is enough.