Premillennialism contradicts scripture (1 Corinthians 15:50-54) by having mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God when Jesus returns.

[WPM]

Present evidence to support your objections.

Answer the questions and stop avoiding. It is clear you have zero evidence to support your claims. You make it up as you go. Don't bring it up again until you have evidence. We know that you have nothing.

 

[WPM]

Inventing terms is very common in human communication. I'm sure you're familiar with that, aren't you? I believe you are. And I can't believe you don't know what I mean by a "political kingdom."

A spiritual kingdom is often understood as a realm or domain that transcends the physical world—one governed by spiritual principles rather than earthly power or material wealth.

A spiritual kingdom is not a physical kingdom with borders but rather a spiritual domain where God's will is followed. A political kingdom has borders, and it is a physical kingdom with subjects that obey the king out of respect.

Jesus was the head of a Spiritual kingdom before he left the earth. Paul describes his kingdom as a kingdom of light, populated by "holy ones." In addition, Jesus taught his disciples that he was going away to a far country to receive a kingdom. We discussed the fact that his parable was based on a historical event, when Herod the Great traveled to Rome to receive his kingship from the Roman Senate. In the same manner, Jesus went to heaven to receive a kingdom from his Father.

This event is described in Daniel chapter 7

You invented this imaginary term "political kingdom" - in regard to Christ and you want me to show it in Scripture? What are you like?

The burden of proof is with you to show the biblical evidence for this fantasy term.

 

[WPM]

Apparently, you didn't learn anything from your previous mistakes. Taking a single verse out of context allows one to make them say what one wants to hear.

LOL. The mistake I am making is interacting with you. It is a waste of time. Can I remind you? This is Scripture speaking! This might explain why you are so evasive and uncomfortable.

1. Is “Jesus Christ” our “great God and our Saviour” (Titus 2:13)?
2. Did Jesus admit that He was “the Almighty” (Revelation 1:8)?
3. Is Jesus Christ “Lord God Almighty … King of saints” (Revelation 15:3)?
4. Is Jesus “the express image of his (God’s) person, who is “upholding all things by the word of his power” (Hebrews 1:2-3)?
5. Is it true that within Christ “dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily” (Colossians 2:9)?
6. Is Christ: “the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature” (Colossians 1:15)?
7. Did Jesus testify to the overcomer “I will be his God”?
8. Does 1 John 5:20 that Jesus Christ … is the true God, and eternal life”?
9. Is Jesus called “Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us” (Matthew 1:23)?
10. Is Jesus “the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting” (1 Timothy 6:15–16)?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Answer the questions and stop avoiding. It is clear you have zero evidence to support your claims. You make it up as you go. Don't bring it up again until you have evidence. We know that you have nothing.

This has just gotten to be utterly ridiculous. We present clear scripture to support our view and he responds with gibberish and religious doublespeak. Rinse and repeat. I'm done with this nonsense. I'd rather get back to the point of this thread which is to show that those who think that mortals inherit the kingdom when Jesus returns are contradicting scripture like 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and Matthew 25:31-46.

 

[WPM]

This has just gotten to be utterly ridiculous. We present clear scripture to support our view and he responds with gibberish and religious doublespeak. Rinse and repeat. I'm done with this nonsense. I'd rather get back to the point of this thread which is to show that those who think that mortals inherit the kingdom when Jesus returns are contradicting scripture like 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and Matthew 25:31-46.

Exactly. His teaching is a joke. He should be banned from here. We just give him credible as if his is legit.

 

[CadyandZoe]

No, you do not. You just lie habitually. The Bible says that Jesus created all things, which we all know God did (Genesis 1-2) and you deny that!

The Bible does not say that Jesus Created all things. Jesus was born thousands of years before God created the heavens and the Earth. Paul wrote that the creation was made FOR Jesus and this is why it is his inheritance.

No, the Bible teaches us that He is God by nature, but took the nature of a human.

No, the Bible says that Jesus was born and he grew up to be a man.

You blatantly deny many clear scriptures.

I certainly deny your interpretation of the scriptures.

His nature is that he has always existed as God.

Philippians isn't talking about the nature of Jesus. It is talking about the status of Jesus. In that context, the term "god" refers to royalty and the term "man" refers to a commoner. Paul argues that since Jesus lived as a commoner rather than royalty, even though he deserved to be respected as royalty, he did not consider being royalty a thing to hold onto tightly so he took on the form of a servant. In this way Jesus becomes our model to follow. We should also take on the role of a servant.

 

[CadyandZoe]

As in, one of the original apostles? No, I can't say that I'm that old. Why are you asking me this? The verse I quoted applies to all Christians. All Christians have authority because of belonging to Christ.

Only Jesus and the Apostles can tell me what to believe.

 

[Taken]

Well the sheep in Matthew 25:32 certainly will go in with mortal bodies because they will have children

You are confusing “saints” with “ believers”.
While “saints believe”… Not all “believers ARE saints”.
While “some believers COMMIT to their “belief” and become “MADE” saints…a non/committed believer CAN “STOP” Believing…they called have Fallen from Faith…

A saint, is a mortal WHO “while alive in his mortal body…
A) called on Christ the Lord…confesses their true Heartful Believ (ie.Their Commitment)
God searches their Heart (a natural mans, natural spirit (ie. That mans Natural Truth).
“IF” that mans natural spirit confess true Heartful “commitment of Belief”…
That man “is symbolically” crucified with Christ Jesus’ Body.
That mans body IS “accounted in Gods Books of Evidence” ( “specifically the Lambs Book of Life” ) accounted Bodily Dead…and belief Truthfully confessed and Forgiven, and Prepared to receive Salvation of his soul and prepared “that his Spirit can receive Gods Seed”…and Thus his Soul IS Saved, his spirit quickened (born again)…the Holy Spirit of Truth enters his spirit, dwells with him…and that Holy Spirit remains with that man, and “The Holy Spirits Power KEEPS that man thereafter Forever saved and Quickened…
Ie. OSAS
Ie. Greater is He that is IN you than he that is in the world.

That such man can Never fall away, he being Kept Saved, quickened by Gods Power.
This man IS thereafter…a Saint.
As long as that man’s physical body continues living, his “crucified body eith Jesus is accounted crucified… and that man….lives IN Jesus’ risen Body…
The man called “IN” Christ.
The man occupy Jesus’ risen body, until his own physical death and Rising of his own glorified body…at the Time of the Rapture when Christ the Lord Jesus calls up to meet Him…His Church…those in Christ.
(They shall return to Earth WITH Jesus in their immortal bodies.

During the Trib…many, expressly ISRAEL Tribesmen…will come to Heartfully Believe…they shall “experience” PHYSICAL death of their body’s, then their soul saving and spirit quickening.

During the Trib, ALSO many unbelievers shall be killed, their soul damned and their natural spirit die with their body’s never having received a forever living spirit from Gods seed.

During the Trib also will be Many Not killed , who actually DO Heartfully believe, but Never called on the Lord or called out to God and Confessed their Belief.
God IS Just.
God is thorough, He Verifies, He searches Every Mans natural spirit (truth) of mens hearts.
Men who remain mortally alive (and Heartfully Believe) … but did not confess and did not become MADE soul saved, spirit quickened, “saints”…Remain…believing mortals….destined to begin and generationally repopulate the earth…during During Christ Jesus’ 1,000 yr reign.
Men die natural physical deaths…and IF they have continued believing, God Shall save them, Quicken them, raise up their body’s in the first mass resurrection.
These are living mortal Believers…”not saints” … they can journey TO Christs Kingdom, but they live in their own. Countries / Nations. Their Nations have governments, kings, rulers…and Christ Jesus is “thee” King over all Nations kings.

As far as the saints that survive the tribulation goes I dont have a clear passage that says they will have mortal bodies to enter the kingdom but there are a couple verses in Isaiah that could apply..............................[Isa 65:22-23 KJV] 22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree [are] the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. 23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they [are] the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

Also there is only the resurrection of the just and that would be found in Rev 20:4-6............I guess the saints out of tribulation would have to be included

 

[CadyandZoe]

I have proven that He created all things

No. You have the habit of taking verses out of context, which you don't understand. Jesus was born thousands of years before God created the heavens and the earth.

there is nothing anyone can do to prove anything to you.

That isn't true. I believed my mother when she told me who my father is.

no amount of scriptural evidence can change your mind.

I believe scripture evidence. What you provide is verses taken out of context. That isn't evidence. You also assume things that are obviously untrue. I mean, the evident facts are the opposite to what you say they are.

This gibberish is your way of hiding the fact that you do NOT believe that He is God since you do NOT believe He has God's attributes such as being the Creator of all things, reigning over all things, being all powerful and being omnipresent.

Again, you need to prove two things: Jesus had those attributes, and two they are necessary for his role as the image of God. So far, no cigar.

The Bible explicitly teaches that he created all things, as you've been shown many times now.

The Bible teaches that Jesus was born thousands of years after God created the heavens and the earth.

Your denial that Jesus is God and reigns over all things

I never denied that Jesus is God.

is a major reason why you are a Premil, so it's relevant to talk about it in your case. You are clearly the one who is uncomfortable talking about it, as evidenced by yet another attempt here to try to get me to stop talking about it with you, which I will never do as long as you continue to deny the truth.

You also live in a fantasy, assigning motives to me that you can't possibly know about or prove. You can't present a rational rebuttal or a defense of your position.

I point out several issues, all taught by the apostles, that you immediately claim are "ridiculous nonsense" even as you, yourself, know where to find their statements.

But maybe I am wrong. Maybe you have never read John's gospel or Colossians or Hebrews. If not, here are the passages.

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

When did John write his Gospel, before or after Jesus ascended to heaven? John wrote his Gospel after Jesus ascended, and so John's statement that no one had seen God at any time was true, even after Jesus ascended to heaven. Indeed, when Jesus was on earth the first time, they saw the man Jesus. And because he came as a human being, what we saw was God translated in the medium of a human being. The incarnation was a way for humanity to grasp divine truth in a deeply personal and relatable way.

Paul says that Jesus is the image of God, the firstborn of all creation. He also says that Jesus will inherit all creation because it was made for him.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Answer the questions and stop avoiding. It is clear you have zero evidence to support your claims. You make it up as you go. Don't bring it up again until you have evidence. We know that you have nothing.

I have already supplied evidence. I can't help it if you don't understand it or accept it. John says that thrones were set up and that the martyrs came to life and reigned with Christ. You claim that John is referring to a spiritual kingdom rather than a political kingdom, which is not what John intended.

He says that thrones were set up. This is parallel to what he promised his disciples that they would rule over the twelve tribes of Israel. This does not describe a spiritual kingdom, which exists in the hearts of believers. This describes a physical kingdom where the apostles will rule over other people.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You invented this imaginary term "political kingdom" - in regard to Christ and you want me to show it in Scripture? What are you like?

The burden of proof is with you to show the biblical evidence for this fantasy term.

The idea that Jesus and his followers will rule over a political kingdom is found in Daniel 7, where it says that they will rule over the other four beasts.

 

[WPM]

I have already supplied evidence. I can't help it if you don't understand it or accept it. John says that thrones were set up and that the martyrs came to life and reigned with Christ. You claim that John is referring to a spiritual kingdom rather than a political kingdom, which is not what John intended.

He says that thrones were set up. This is parallel to what he promised his disciples that they would rule over the twelve tribes of Israel. This does not describe a spiritual kingdom, which exists in the hearts of believers. This describes a physical kingdom where the apostles will rule over other people.

Hello! That is the final judgment when Jesus comes. That is it! No 1000 years of a political kingdom there. You have nothing in Rev 20 or anywhere else.

1 Corinthians 6:2-3 says, “Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?”

Scripture clearly shows us that “the saints will judge the world” and “shall judge angels.” In short, the righteous judge the wicked through their spiritual standing “in Christ.” As “joint-heirs” with the Savior (Romans 8:18), we stand with Him in the judgment. This is a very privileged position.

When does this happen?

When Jesus comes in His glory. Jesus said, in Matthew 19:28, “Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”

This fits in with countless passages in Holy Writ that demonstrate that judgment day is an event that occurs on the last day, where the righteous are rewarded and the wicked are banished to the lake of fire. We do not need to import anything else into these. For you to do otherwise is to depict your millennium as one ongoing judgment of natural Israel. This is the opposite to classic Premil that elevates Israel to a favor place in their millennium and shows them restoring their whole old covenant apparatus in the presence of Jesus.

This passage locates “the regeneration” at the second coming “when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory.” Here, they will be judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

[WPM]

The idea that Jesus and his followers will rule over a political kingdom is found in Daniel 7, where it says that they will rule over the other four beasts.

Quote where it mentions the disciples, instead of your misleading words.

 

[Taken]

The people of the nation goats of Matthew 25 will enter the kingdom if no one else does

They will be led to the Lord by Israel saints.............[Zec 8:23 KJV] 23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days [it shall come to pass], that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard [that] God [is] with you.

They will build houses...................[Isa 65:21 KJV] 21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit [them]; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

They will have to go to the feast of tabernacles...........[Zec 14:16 KJV] 16 And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Point being…
Humans have 6,000 years of learning, growing, deciding their beliefs, tasting, trying, doubting, rejecting, committing……or not ( before their physical death).

And God has reveal the consequences for each man’s Choices according to WHENEVER they “live” until the last day of mortal existance.

And not to Forget from early ancient history the many DIVISION’S God established…including among mankind …Jews and Gentiles. Every individual shall have his own consequence fulfilled (good or bad).

 

[Taken]

No 1000 years of a political kingdom there. You have nothing in Rev 20 or anywhere else.

Clearly a false claim.

No matter if you believe the 1.000 yr reign.
It shall commence without your consent.

 

[Doug]

It says they will inherit "eternal life" at that time (Matt 25:46). How can they die after they have inherited eternal life?

I did not ignore this but I dont ascribe the same view as you in its significance as saying they had to be resurrected although maybe they were

 

[Taken]

The people of the nation goats of Matthew 25 will enter the kingdom if no one else does

They will be led to the Lord by Israel saints.............[Zec 8:23 KJV] 23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days [it shall come to pass], that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard [that] God [is] with you.

They will build houses...................[Isa 65:21 KJV] 21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit [them]; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

They will have to go to the feast of tabernacles...........[Zec 14:16 KJV] 16 And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The people of the nation goats of Matthew 25 will enter the kingdom if no one else does

They will be led to the Lord by Israel saints.............[Zec 8:23 KJV] 23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days [it shall come to pass], that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard [that] God [is] with you.

They will build houses...................[Isa 65:21 KJV] 21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit [them]; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

They will have to go to the feast of tabernacles...........[Zec 14:16 KJV] 16 And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Yes. This is, mortals occupants of “their” nations….
Yes they can visit Christs Kingdom.
No they are not occupants, citizens of Christs Kingdom….
Just as you can visit foreign nations, but are not a citizen of a foreign nation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Clearly a false claim.

No matter if you believe the 1.000 yr reign.
It shall commence without your consent.

And who exactly do you think will populate the earth during that time? Jesus indicated in Matthew 25:31-46 that, when He comes again, all believers (the sheep/righteous) will inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world and all unbelievers (the goats/cursed) will be cast into "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt 25:41). What mortals does that leave to populate the earth at that point?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I did not ignore this but I dont ascribe the same view as you in its significance as saying they had to be resurrected although maybe they were

Regardless of that, they inherit "eternal life" at that time. How can they be mortals who will die in that case? It's talking about inheriting eternal life bodily.

 

[Taken]

And who exactly do you think will populate the earth during that time? Jesus indicated in Matthew 25:31-46 that, when He comes again, all believers (the sheep/righteous) will inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world and all unbelievers (the goats/cursed) will be cast into "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt 25:41). What mortals does that leave to populate the earth at that point?

Already answered.
They who believe, but are not committed to their belief, who are not killed during the Trib that comes down from heaven.