Never a consideration on my part. My views are my considered scriptural understandings. Never read Darby forefathers etc. Probably bever will. They are simply believers like you and I, who may or may not be wrong, like us. Why use a Middle man. We have the word of God and the spirit of God. We should stick with those.
Premillennialism contradicts scripture (1 Corinthians 15:50-54) by having mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God when Jesus returns.
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How do premills struggle with 2 Thess 1 and Matt 24? Seems pretty straight forward.
I dont consider Amill the apostasy.
I think those of us interested in understanding endtimes to be some of the most unlikely to be the apostasy. It would more likely be the pretrib believers of premill!
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Who is suggesting Amil would be the apostasy? That doesn't even make any sense even if Amil is not the correct view. But speaking of apostasy though, I only see Amil making sense per the following below. Except which Amils might view things in this manner? None that i;m aware of.
It could mean Amils are correct about when the millennium is meaning. Except during the millennium these in Revelation 20:7-9 are among the saved. After the millennium they fall away, thus the great apostasy within the church prior to the 2nd coming.
If Amil perhaps taught that or something along those lines, in that case Amil could have a good case for Amil because it for sure doesn't make good sense that you deceive someone already deceived. But it does make good sense that you deceive someone no longer deceived. Thus during the millennium these in verses 7-9 would be among the saved during the final days and years of the millennium. Meaning the last 70-90 or so years of the millennium, since verse 7-9 would have to be involving someone still alive in the final days and years of the millennium.
Then after the millennium they are tested. And the ones that fall away during satan's little season fail the test, thus verse 9 is their fate. Except what Amil even teaches anything like this? Instead Amil wants us to believe something preposterous, that the ones meant in verses 7-9 are already deceived during the millennium, and then an over kill occurs after the millennium, satan deceives someone already deceived. Even in the beginning that's not the way satan operated. Eve wasn't already deceived before satan deceived her. She was deceived after satan deceived her.
Of course though, what I am proposing that might make sense of Amil is for sure going to find opposition among Amils that are in the Once Saved Always Saved camp. As if OSAS can be true in every single case to begin with if there is a great falling away from the church, regardless. Thus the great apostasy = NOSAS, not OSAS, in this case.
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My justification are a. On earth.
Rev 5.10, Rev 20.1, Rev 2.26+, Psalm 2.8
b. 1000 actual years.
Genesis 1, the 7th day
2 Peter 2.8 Day as a thousand years
The fact that we are nearly at the end of the sixth millennium and events seem to indicate his coming soonish.
Rev 20 says its 1000 years, six times.
SIX Times, He must've known we wouldnt listen!!
I have had plenty of conversations with premill people on this subforum
They don't believe when Christ returns all unbelieving are killed
They believe ungodly people survive the Day of wrath
They believe they will become like warrior angels, meting out punishments on the wicked survivors, who refuse to repent.
They base this partially on
Revelation 2:27
‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’— as I also have received from My Father;
Revelation 19:15
Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
That the above verses are just Godly correction, no a capital judgment
I get the sense from some of them they plan to enjoy ruling over the nations of people who refuse to believe in Christ.
Well, there are plenty of pretribbers still around, most definitely had long fruitless discussions with them also.
At least people who read the forums got to see some scripture.
So how are all the unbelieving people of the world killed.
LOL. Revelation 20 is not a difficulty for Amill. Please don't try to talk for Amills.
But, Matthew 25:31-46 occurs at Christ's second coming with His angels, as Jesus specifically said. You can't reconcile that with Premil.
Of course we deny that. It's not taught anywhere in scripture.
By fire, of course.
2 Thessalonians 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
There is nothing about a future millennium in Genesis 1. You are just making things up to support your doctrine and that is unacceptable.
Good grief. You are terribly twisting scripture here and taking it completely out of context. Did you even bother looking at the context of 2 Peter 3:8?
2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [b]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
The context of 2 Peter 3:8 is in relation to how long it is taking the Lord to come again, not in relation to some imaginary future thousand year time period. Peter pointed out that the Lord is not being slack/slow to fulfill the promise of His second coming and backs that up by pointing out how one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as one day to the Lord. What that means, which you are missing, is that the Lord exists outside of time so time is not a factor for Him. So, no amount of time makes any difference from His eternal perspective, including a day or a thousand years. So, that's why no one can accuse Him of being slow to fulfill the promise of His second coming. From His eternal perspective where a day and a thousand years make no difference to Him, He is not being slow.
This is all a complete stretch. Your Premill doctrine is not based on clear, straightforward scriptures like Amill is, which is a point that I've made many times. And no Premill can refute that.
Do you just like to complain or what? I did indicate in the OP that not all Premils believe what I was talking about, so why can't you be satisfied with that?
Regardless of that, how does it make any sense for Premils like you, who agree that the sheep who will inherit the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world when Jesus comes with His angels are immortals, to conclude that any mortals would be on the earth at that point, knowing that the goats are cast into everlasting fire at that point (Matthew 25:41)? Where do these mortals come from then? Who are they? Don't you think the kingdom would encompass the entire earth? If you have mortals on the earth at that time, how are you concluding that they didn't inherit the kingdom and how would they avoid being cast into everlasting fire at that time instead?
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