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Preterism the New Frontier

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by Larry ha, Aug 31, 2019.

  1. Larry ha

    Larry ha New Member

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    Greetings

    There is a new frontier growing in Christianity known as Preterism, Which falls into two camps. Partial Preterism PP and full Preterism FP know as Covenant Escapology.

    P.P considers most prophecy was fulfilled in the first century and FP believes all prophecy fulfilled in the first century.

    Dictionary

    "Preterism, a Christian eschatological view, interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. ... The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which Webster's 1913 Dictionary lists as a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond"

    These two fields are rejected by systematic Christianity, which aroused my curiosity. So I studied into the subject matter years ago and found it has changed the way I now view the New Testament. Has anyone come across this new field of thinking. I am interested in the pro's and con's.
     
  2. Willie T

    Willie T Heaven Sent Staff Member

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    Yes, it does change many things we used to accept without looking or thinking. (But, it is not anything new, at all.)
     
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  3. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    I have grown much from when i was first saved years ago. I followed along with the "Pre-Trib."
    mentality of the "secret rapture" crowd, but as I continued to study the scriptures, i realized many things were not adding up, and that I could no longer find reasons to support it.
    In fact, I was finding more and more evidence to let go of it, and to continue with the Holy Spirit's leading and guidance, and not that which was religiously popular.
    Today, being even more convinced that the "Pre-Trib. Rapture theory" is error, I stand firmly planted with the "Partial Preterism" concept.
     
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  4. Grams

    Grams Well-Known Member

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    8
    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9
    Not of works, lest any man should boast.
     
  5. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    How is what you quoted contrary to the previous posts?
    Explain your point and assumption along with your quotes.
     
  6. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    This may be new to you, but it has been around for centuries. And all of those ideas are FALSE.
     
  7. Willie T

    Willie T Heaven Sent Staff Member

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    False? If you believe no other prophecy came true but the fact that Jesus was born to a virgin, then you are already a Partial Preterist.
     
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  8. Larry ha

    Larry ha New Member

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    Yes the inspiration was around for centuries by numerous scholars. In the 18the century a researcher of scripture named James Stuart Russell penned the book "The Parousia" and opened entrance, IMHO, to the truths of eschatology. If interested I propose reading the first chapter, "THE BOOK OF MALACHI" and continue to JOHN THE BAPTIST. It is a good starting point just to see what the area under discussion is all about..

    James Stuart Russell : The Parousia: A Careful Look at the New Testament Doctrine of the Lord's Second Coming (1878) Free Online Books @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism and Preterist Eschatology
     
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  9. oldhermit

    oldhermit Active Member

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    Yea, I used to accept many theories of millennial teaching but, like you, I began to see that too many things simply did not add up and no one was able to answer my questions.
     
  10. Grams

    Grams Well-Known Member

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    You need to know this ????

    The whole bible is for us !!!!!!!!

    But the whole bible is not to us !!!!!!!!! That really changes things a lot .................
     
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  11. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    I've been called one...not that I can even spell it, nor am I one.

    But I must say, they have a better understanding of the nature and reality of God, than most do. Most want to put the things of God and the kingdom (which is not of this world) into the terms of men and the world. That's quite an accurate definition of "lost", "deaf", and "blind." It's no wonder most consider them heretics.
     
  12. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

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    I reject Preterism on the grounds that it forces Scripture to conform to their version of history. Most Preterists use Josephus' writings as their historical base. Then they search his writings for key words like "hail", "blood", etc. After finding such words, they go back to Scripture and say a verse referring to hail or blood is fulfilled by the event Josephus wrote about. For example, Josephus wrote about a massacre that left a section of water red with blood. The Preterist then says, "See, Rev 16:3 is fulfilled already; "And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea." Nonsense.
     
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  13. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    First thanks for the topic, second, anytine you have a division within the belief itself, it's not of God.... Partial Preterists, and full Preterists? that's confusion and it's not of God, for God is not the author of confusion. so let's look as the confusion root to understand the ERROR. in reading the linked article.
    THE PAROUSIA TO TAKE PLACE WITHIN THE LIFETIME
    OF SOME OF THE DISCIPLES
    .

    let's look at this first ERROR, #1 about our Lord's return in the disciple lifetime.
    the reason for this error is that the return of our Lord and Saviour is a two fold return. what do we mean? First in Spirit, then in body. the Preterists scriptures used here for this return are,
    Matthew 16:28" Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom”. and Mark 9:1" And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power”. and lastly Luke 9:27 "But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God”.

    These three verses of scriptures have puzzle a many of Christians for years. that puzzlement is now over and revealed, and put in place. here was the dilemma of both verses. #1. if the Lord Jesus have not returned in power, even today, (because many are still waiting for his return). then there are some very, very old people walking around today. that idea is not biblical, because no where in the bible is it written after the Lord Jesus spoke theses word is it recorded that any man lived at least 2,000 years after these saying. so this nullifies anyone still walking around as a human, (with blood) over 2,000 years old. even per-flood after the fall of Adam in sin, no one made it to a thousand. so again that theory out.

    The second option, #2. our Lord did return as he said he would, in his Kingdom, and in POWER before some of them standing, and in that generation tasted natural death. not spiritual death, but natural death. knowing that our Lord, JESUS, who is God, cannot lie, HE MUST HAVE RETURN BEFORE SOME STANDING AT THAT TIME DIED. (but the question begs to be answered ... WHEN?). so I must accept his words as truth, and therefore search his word out for the revelation. in doing so, we now have the revealing answer?. option #1 is out, that only leaves option #2. option #2 holds the true answer, which we will revealed here. YES, he did return, and here is that revelation.
    Without going into any technical details, his first return was on Pentecost, in Spirit, (the manifestation of the Spiritual Gifts), supportive scripture,
    John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
    John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
    John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."
    and he came to them (HIS DISCIPLES) IN MANIFESTATION OF THE SPIRITUAL GIFTS. that fulfiled Matthew 16:28, Mark 9:1, and Luke 9:27. so his first return, (every eye did not see him, for he came in "manifestation", which is supportive by 1 Corinthians 12:7-11). for the Lord said he would "manifest" himself to his disciples, scripture, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." so how did he manifest? by indwelling with the Spiritual Gifts. John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?"
    John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." here "abode" means a staying, i.e. residence, a dwelling. BINGO.
    his second fold return is in "APPERANCE", bodily. supportive scripture, Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." the second time? the first time he "appeared was in flesh as a babe. and the second fold return is KING in his glorified body, which is yet to happen, supportive scripture, Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." this is the second "apperance that Hebrews 9:28 speak of.

    so his first return of his two fold return is in Spirit, (not every eyes saw it). and his second fold return, (here, every eye will see that, which is yet to come), Revelation 1:7.
    so that answers "THE PAROUSIA TO TAKE PLACE WITHIN THE LIFETIME OF SOME OF THE DISCIPLES". well all of them, not some

    which means no return in AD 70.

    PICJAG.
     
  14. Pilgrimer

    Pilgrimer Active Member

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    Well, in all fairness, the report in Josephus that the naval battle on the Sea of Galilee resulted in so many dead that the sea was stained red with blood and the beaches so filled with dead, rotting corpses the stench even drove away the battle-hardened Romans, and the multitude of corpses that washed down into and choked the Jordan River and that even the Dead Sea was filled with dead bodies, might fairly be considered a bit more than "a section of water red with blood."

    You might want to at least read Josephus' "Wars" because it is difficult to conceive that anyone interested in eschatology would not read it and having read it not come away with at least an honest appreciation of just how truly horrific the Roman/Jewish war really was.

    In Christ,
    Pilgrimer
     
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  15. Willie T

    Willie T Heaven Sent Staff Member

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    Every single person, you included, who follows Jesus is already a Partial Preterist.
     
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  16. Pilgrimer

    Pilgrimer Active Member

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    I abandoned the premillennial scheme back in the late 80's, not because of eschatology, but because of soteriology, which to my mind is far more important to get right, let the escha chips fall where they will.

    In Christ,
    Pilgrimer
     
  17. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

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    But, as exceptional was Dieppe, Normandy, the Bubonic Plague, the Fire of Rome, Auschwitz & Dachau, Pearl Harbour, Milošević Genocide, Pol Pot reign, Kurdish gassing, Hiroshima & Nagasaki, Thirty & One Hundred Year Wars, Napalm & Mustard gas, etc...
    Like @gadar perets said, take your pick, which is prophetical alluding to Biblical oracles, and which are just man, being man?
    I choose the latter, as I believe that the real biblical eschatological tribulations will be unprecedented in magnitude, and undeniably a manifestation of divine intervention.

    Matthew 24:6. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
     
  18. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

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    Well, maybe I'm wrong, but I've always understood any form of Preterism to be referring to eschatological times, as in, the end times, or dramatic and undeniable signs that lead up to them. For, against what @Willie T said, not every Christian is a partial preterist because the Bible already confirms this fulfillment, and quite a few others. In other words, what has already been Apostolically established as fulfilled prophecy, like Northern Israel's dispersion, Babylonian captivity, virgin birth, suffering Messiah, Gentile's salvation, abrogation of the Law, etc.. There's no guess work here, again, this has prophetical attestation within the Bible itself. I would think that the debate over Preterism pertains to the signs that were predicted to occur in the future, or after the Bible was written i.e. the end times?
     
  19. Willie T

    Willie T Heaven Sent Staff Member

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    But, even right there, we have a problem. As you, yourself, just came close to saying, it is very much, and often, "guess work" when it comes to deciding WHAT future time periods many of those predictions were describing. The Preterists point out — and often quite convincingly — what they consider as the "already-occurred" incidences that usually centered around 70 AD, the end of the old system, and the beginning of the newness of God's reality we now live under.... While most of us insist that it HAS to be the way we were taught in Sunday School by people who were only perpetuating the "guessing" they, themselves, were also taught... by other "guessers."

    It seems — as in most cases when judging for ourselves what "those others" believe — that people who want to shun the idea of Preterist thinking, classify, regulate, and limit what a Preteristic thinker is allowed to believe and think.

    I once felt that same way about Christian Reconstructionists (Dominion Belief)…….. UNTIL, I finally decided to quit just following the howling negative herd, and do some actual research to find out for myself what they really DID believe.

    Boy! God sure does appear differently when we let Him out of the prisons of our tiny limited and restrictive little minds.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
  20. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

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    Well, yes, I am saying that because it invariably involves 'guess work', is the reason that I would dismiss it, ...or, as I said in an earlier post on this thread, would expect more dramatic or cataclysmic events to qualify as eschatological signs.
    But, what I meant to question was, as far as the Bible attesting to fulfilled prophecy goes, i wouldn't think that these are part of the Preterist's argument or eschatology, for it wouldn't be a theory at that point, or up for debate, or considered eschatological?
    In other words, just believing in the Messianic prophecies and fulfillments, doesn't make one a partial Preterist, does it?
     
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