May your recovery be speedy & his peace & love bring you comfort from pain !
problem related to praying in tongues
- Thread starter The Learner
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Davy
Well-Known Member
You cannot prove your belief on what the TRUE cloven tongue is, so now you're on demons. I'd be stupid to fall to that ignorant ploy. If you don't know that Jesus gave His servants power over all the enemy per Luke 10, then you ought to read it, because that is what I have from Him.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Frankly, I had never heard the term "cloven tongue" before, and still don't understand what you are trying to say about it.
You seem to be making a broad brush attack on tongues in general.
As far as I can see there is NOTHING about tongues in Luke chapter ten. Demons are inferred however.
Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. the term "cloven tongue" is nowhere to be found in Luke chapter ten.
Perhaps you can explain?
Davy
Well-Known Member
Don't be deceived brethren, the Apostles and early Church did not speak a 'gibberish' tongue like St. SteVen is trying to point you to.
Like Acts 2 reveals, EVERYONE PRESENT HEARD IN THEIR OWN DIALECTS OF THEIR LANGUAGES OF BIRTH. That ain't... gibberish!
And Apostle Peter, when he preached The Gospel to the Gentiles in Acts 10, and they began to speak the cloven tongue, Peter said this about it...
Acts 11:15
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
KJV
Peter said, those Gentiles in Acts 10 began to speak, "as on us at the beginning." That MEANS as per the ACTS 2 manifestation!
And again, HOW did the cloven tongue MANIFEST among people from different nations and languages?
Acts 2:5-8
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
KJV
So as believers on Jesus Christ, we can either listen to His Word of Truth as written, or instead to another spirit by those who preach against His written Word! It's that simple. God is offering a test for us brethren, about this cloven tongue matter. The devil is given the ability of miracles also, so the Lakeland manifestations and their offshoot Charismatic churches are NOT heeding God's Word about this. They are 'drunken' spiritually in the night, in darkness, and they don't yet know it. So beware.
Like Acts 2 reveals, EVERYONE PRESENT HEARD IN THEIR OWN DIALECTS OF THEIR LANGUAGES OF BIRTH. That ain't... gibberish!
And Apostle Peter, when he preached The Gospel to the Gentiles in Acts 10, and they began to speak the cloven tongue, Peter said this about it...
Acts 11:15
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
KJV
Peter said, those Gentiles in Acts 10 began to speak, "as on us at the beginning." That MEANS as per the ACTS 2 manifestation!
And again, HOW did the cloven tongue MANIFEST among people from different nations and languages?
Acts 2:5-8
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
KJV
So as believers on Jesus Christ, we can either listen to His Word of Truth as written, or instead to another spirit by those who preach against His written Word! It's that simple. God is offering a test for us brethren, about this cloven tongue matter. The devil is given the ability of miracles also, so the Lakeland manifestations and their offshoot Charismatic churches are NOT heeding God's Word about this. They are 'drunken' spiritually in the night, in darkness, and they don't yet know it. So beware.
Davy
Well-Known Member
yeah, and I showed it per Acts 2:5-8 that ALL PRESENT heard them speak in their OWN languages of birth.
So are you going to try and counter that as written, since your above picture DOES NOT SHOW THE 7-8 VERSES??
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Acts ch2
Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, lifted up his voice, and addressed the crowd: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen carefully to my words. 15These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It is only the third hour of the day!
No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
Isaiah 28:8-12
For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean. Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
I think I asked you this earlier. (to no avail)
What is the gift of the interpretation of tongues in 1 Corinthians chapter twelve for, if the tongues are a known language to the hearers?
And what is the point in 1 Corinthians chapter fourteen about prophecy being preferred to tongues, if hearers understand?
Last edited:
Attention:
This is the def. of cloven & is being misused by the poster! Two places in the word of God is this word used. The gift of the Spirit aka tongues is not cloven or forked but the appearance of fire that sat upon them appeared cloven.
ACTS CHAPTER 2 KJV
1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with OTHER TONGUES, as the SPIRIT gave them utterance.
This is the def. of cloven & is being misused by the poster! Two places in the word of God is this word used. The gift of the Spirit aka tongues is not cloven or forked but the appearance of fire that sat upon them appeared cloven.
ACTS CHAPTER 2 KJV
1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with OTHER TONGUES, as the SPIRIT gave them utterance.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Thank you.
I knew something was terribly wrong.
You were able to articulate it. Kudos. Good work, detective.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Luke 10
Luke 10
Easy-to-Read Version
Jesus Sends Out 72 of His Followers
10 After this, the Lord chose 72[a] more followers. He sent them out in groups of two. He sent them ahead of him into every town and place where he planned to go. 2 He said to them, “There is such a big harvest of people to bring in. But there are only a few workers to help harvest them. God owns the harvest. Ask him to send more workers to help bring in his harvest.
3 “You can go now. But listen! I am sending you, and you will be like sheep among wolves. 4 Don’t carry any money, a bag, or sandals. Don’t stop to talk with people on the road. 5 Before you go into a house, say, ‘Peace be with this home.’ 6 If the people living there love peace, your blessing of peace will stay with them. But if not, your blessing of peace will come back to you. 7 Stay in the peace-loving house. Eat and drink what the people there give you. A worker should be given his pay. Don’t leave that house to stay in another house.
8 “If you go into a town and the people welcome you, eat the food they give you. 9 Heal the sick people who live there, and tell them, ‘God’s kingdom is now very near you!’
10 “But if you go into a town and the people don’t welcome you, then go out into the streets of that town and say, 11 ‘Even the dirt from your town that sticks to our feet we wipe off against you. But remember that God’s kingdom is coming soon.’ 12 I tell you, on the judgment day it will be worse for the people of that town than for the people of Sodom.
Jesus Warns People Who Refuse to Believe
13 “It will be bad for you, Chorazin! It will be bad for you, Bethsaida! I did many miracles in you. If those same miracles had happened in Tyre and Sidon, then the people in those cities would have changed their lives and stopped sinning a long time ago. They would have worn sackcloth and sat in ashes to show that they were sorry for their sins. 14 But on the judgment day it will be worse for you than for Tyre and Sidon. 15 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to heaven? No, you will be thrown down to the place of death!
16 “When anyone listens to you my followers, they are really listening to me. But when anyone refuses to accept you, they are really refusing to accept me. And when anyone refuses to accept me, they are refusing to accept the one who sent me.”
Satan Falls
17 When the 72 followers came back from their trip, they were very happy. They said, “Lord, even the demons obeyed us when we used your name!”
18 Jesus said to them, “I saw Satan falling like lightning from the sky. 19 He is the enemy, but know that I have given you more power than he has. I have given you power to crush his snakes and scorpions under your feet. Nothing will hurt you. 20 Yes, even the spirits obey you. And you can be happy, not because you have this power, but because your names are written in heaven.”
Jesus Prays to the Father
21 Then the Holy Spirit made Jesus feel very happy. Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth. I am thankful that you have hidden these things from those who are so wise and so smart. But you have shown them to people who are like little children. Yes, Father, you did this because it’s what you really wanted to do.
22 “My Father has given me all things. No one knows who the Son is—only the Father knows. And only the Son knows who the Father is. The only people who will know about the Father are those the Son chooses to tell.”
23 Then Jesus turned to his followers. They were there alone with him. He said, “It is a great blessing for you to see what you now see! 24 I tell you, many prophets and kings wanted to see what you now see, but they could not. And they wanted to hear what you now hear, but they could not.”
A Story About the Good Samaritan
25 Then an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. He said, “Teacher, what must I do to get eternal life?”
26 Jesus said to him, “What is written in the law? What do you understand from it?”
27 The man answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.’[c] Also, ‘Love your neighbor the same as you love yourself.’[d]”
28 Jesus said, “Your answer is right. Do this and you will have eternal life.”
29 But the man wanted to show that the way he was living was right. So he said to Jesus, “But who is my neighbor?”
30 To answer this question, Jesus said, “A man was going down the road from Jerusalem to Jericho. Some robbers surrounded him, tore off his clothes, and beat him. Then they left him lying there on the ground almost dead.
31 “It happened that a Jewish priest was going down that road. When he saw the man, he did not stop to help him. He walked away. 32 Next, a Levite came near. He saw the hurt man, but he went around him. He would not stop to help him either. He just walked away.
33 “Then a Samaritan man traveled down that road. He came to the place where the hurt man was lying. He saw the man and felt very sorry for him. 34 The Samaritan went to him and poured olive oil and wine[e] on his wounds. Then he covered the man’s wounds with cloth. The Samaritan had a donkey. He put the hurt man on his donkey, and he took him to an inn. There he cared for him. 35 The next day, the Samaritan took out two silver coins and gave them to the man who worked at the inn. He said, ‘Take care of this hurt man. If you spend more money on him, I will pay it back to you when I come again.’”
36 Then Jesus said, “Which one of these three men do you think was really a neighbor to the man who was hurt by the robbers?”
37 The teacher of the law answered, “The one who helped him.”
Jesus said, “Then you go and do the same.”
Mary and Martha
38 While Jesus and his followers were traveling, he went into a town, and a woman named Martha let him stay at her house. 39 She had a sister named Mary. Mary was sitting at Jesus’ feet and listening to him teach. 40 But her sister Martha was busy doing all the work that had to be done. Martha went in and said, “Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do all the work by myself? Tell her to help me!”
41 But the Lord answered her, “Martha, Martha, you are getting worried and upset about too many things. 42 Only one thing is important. Mary has made the right choice, and it will never be taken away from her.”
Footnotes
Luke 10:1 72 Some Greek copies say 70. Also in verse 17.
Luke 10:9 is now very near you Or “is coming to you soon” or “has come to you.”
Luke 10:27 Quote from Deut. 6:5.
Luke 10:27 Quote from Lev. 19:18.
Luke 10:34 olive oil and wine These were used like medicine to soften and clean wounds.
Luke 10
Easy-to-Read Version
Jesus Sends Out 72 of His Followers
10 After this, the Lord chose 72[a] more followers. He sent them out in groups of two. He sent them ahead of him into every town and place where he planned to go. 2 He said to them, “There is such a big harvest of people to bring in. But there are only a few workers to help harvest them. God owns the harvest. Ask him to send more workers to help bring in his harvest.
3 “You can go now. But listen! I am sending you, and you will be like sheep among wolves. 4 Don’t carry any money, a bag, or sandals. Don’t stop to talk with people on the road. 5 Before you go into a house, say, ‘Peace be with this home.’ 6 If the people living there love peace, your blessing of peace will stay with them. But if not, your blessing of peace will come back to you. 7 Stay in the peace-loving house. Eat and drink what the people there give you. A worker should be given his pay. Don’t leave that house to stay in another house.
8 “If you go into a town and the people welcome you, eat the food they give you. 9 Heal the sick people who live there, and tell them, ‘God’s kingdom is now very near you!’
10 “But if you go into a town and the people don’t welcome you, then go out into the streets of that town and say, 11 ‘Even the dirt from your town that sticks to our feet we wipe off against you. But remember that God’s kingdom is coming soon.’ 12 I tell you, on the judgment day it will be worse for the people of that town than for the people of Sodom.
Jesus Warns People Who Refuse to Believe
13 “It will be bad for you, Chorazin! It will be bad for you, Bethsaida! I did many miracles in you. If those same miracles had happened in Tyre and Sidon, then the people in those cities would have changed their lives and stopped sinning a long time ago. They would have worn sackcloth and sat in ashes to show that they were sorry for their sins. 14 But on the judgment day it will be worse for you than for Tyre and Sidon. 15 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to heaven? No, you will be thrown down to the place of death!
16 “When anyone listens to you my followers, they are really listening to me. But when anyone refuses to accept you, they are really refusing to accept me. And when anyone refuses to accept me, they are refusing to accept the one who sent me.”
Satan Falls
17 When the 72 followers came back from their trip, they were very happy. They said, “Lord, even the demons obeyed us when we used your name!”
18 Jesus said to them, “I saw Satan falling like lightning from the sky. 19 He is the enemy, but know that I have given you more power than he has. I have given you power to crush his snakes and scorpions under your feet. Nothing will hurt you. 20 Yes, even the spirits obey you. And you can be happy, not because you have this power, but because your names are written in heaven.”
Jesus Prays to the Father
21 Then the Holy Spirit made Jesus feel very happy. Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth. I am thankful that you have hidden these things from those who are so wise and so smart. But you have shown them to people who are like little children. Yes, Father, you did this because it’s what you really wanted to do.
22 “My Father has given me all things. No one knows who the Son is—only the Father knows. And only the Son knows who the Father is. The only people who will know about the Father are those the Son chooses to tell.”
23 Then Jesus turned to his followers. They were there alone with him. He said, “It is a great blessing for you to see what you now see! 24 I tell you, many prophets and kings wanted to see what you now see, but they could not. And they wanted to hear what you now hear, but they could not.”
A Story About the Good Samaritan
25 Then an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. He said, “Teacher, what must I do to get eternal life?”
26 Jesus said to him, “What is written in the law? What do you understand from it?”
27 The man answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.’[c] Also, ‘Love your neighbor the same as you love yourself.’[d]”
28 Jesus said, “Your answer is right. Do this and you will have eternal life.”
29 But the man wanted to show that the way he was living was right. So he said to Jesus, “But who is my neighbor?”
30 To answer this question, Jesus said, “A man was going down the road from Jerusalem to Jericho. Some robbers surrounded him, tore off his clothes, and beat him. Then they left him lying there on the ground almost dead.
31 “It happened that a Jewish priest was going down that road. When he saw the man, he did not stop to help him. He walked away. 32 Next, a Levite came near. He saw the hurt man, but he went around him. He would not stop to help him either. He just walked away.
33 “Then a Samaritan man traveled down that road. He came to the place where the hurt man was lying. He saw the man and felt very sorry for him. 34 The Samaritan went to him and poured olive oil and wine[e] on his wounds. Then he covered the man’s wounds with cloth. The Samaritan had a donkey. He put the hurt man on his donkey, and he took him to an inn. There he cared for him. 35 The next day, the Samaritan took out two silver coins and gave them to the man who worked at the inn. He said, ‘Take care of this hurt man. If you spend more money on him, I will pay it back to you when I come again.’”
36 Then Jesus said, “Which one of these three men do you think was really a neighbor to the man who was hurt by the robbers?”
37 The teacher of the law answered, “The one who helped him.”
Jesus said, “Then you go and do the same.”
Mary and Martha
38 While Jesus and his followers were traveling, he went into a town, and a woman named Martha let him stay at her house. 39 She had a sister named Mary. Mary was sitting at Jesus’ feet and listening to him teach. 40 But her sister Martha was busy doing all the work that had to be done. Martha went in and said, “Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do all the work by myself? Tell her to help me!”
41 But the Lord answered her, “Martha, Martha, you are getting worried and upset about too many things. 42 Only one thing is important. Mary has made the right choice, and it will never be taken away from her.”
Footnotes
Luke 10:1 72 Some Greek copies say 70. Also in verse 17.
Luke 10:9 is now very near you Or “is coming to you soon” or “has come to you.”
Luke 10:27 Quote from Deut. 6:5.
Luke 10:27 Quote from Lev. 19:18.
Luke 10:34 olive oil and wine These were used like medicine to soften and clean wounds.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Okay, looks like a few might want to talk about this.
I believe the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is a subsequent experience to a renewed relationship with God.
The indwelling of the Spirit comes as a result of a renewed relationship with God. However...
The Baptism with the Holy Spirit is an enduement of power to operate in the spiritual gifts outlined in 1 Corinthians chapter twelve.
Jesus is the baptizer in the Holy Spirit. Ask Him for the Baptism with the Spirit.
Then look for evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. It could manifest in any of the spiritual gifts.
Has anyone ever explained the Baptism with the Holy Spirit to you?
Jesus said:
Acts 1:5 New English Translation
For[a] John baptized with water, but you[b] will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Yea.... this is a tough one...
I think... and I'm not for sure... But the term... "baptized with the Holy Spirit" was for the very early Church. Giving them power to show God's doing something important inorder for the Church to be established... I mean if you could heal the blind... You could convert sooo many more than if you could heal no one!!! Not something that we have today!!!
Not sure but we get examples... Paul can't heal Timothy with his stomach problems, but did so much more earlier in his ministry... So it appears to be fading
Net Bible 1Ti 5:23 (Stop drinking just water, but use a little wine for your digestion and your frequent illnesses.) 24 The sins of some people are obvious, going before them into judgment, but for others, they show up later.
Yet... Timothy's digestion problems could very well be a problem from his past life style... as vs 24 hints??? or does it??? Like I said.... this is a Tough one for sure....
Paul
Jesus said:
Acts 1:5 New English Translation
For[a] John baptized with water, but you[b] will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Yea.... this is a tough one...
I think... and I'm not for sure... But the term... "baptized with the Holy Spirit" was for the very early Church. Giving them power to show God's doing something important inorder for the Church to be established... I mean if you could heal the blind... You could convert sooo many more than if you could heal no one!!! Not something that we have today!!!
Not sure but we get examples... Paul can't heal Timothy with his stomach problems, but did so much more earlier in his ministry... So it appears to be fading
Net Bible 1Ti 5:23 (Stop drinking just water, but use a little wine for your digestion and your frequent illnesses.) 24 The sins of some people are obvious, going before them into judgment, but for others, they show up later.
Yet... Timothy's digestion problems could very well be a problem from his past life style... as vs 24 hints??? or does it??? Like I said.... this is a Tough one for sure....
Paul
Davy
Well-Known Member
The GIBBERISH SPEAKERS who CLAIM is the cloven tongue of Pentecost, often TRY to claim that if one doesn't speak their GIBBERISH, then they don't have evidence of The Holy Spirit!
That lie reveals the devil's works in those all the more, because Apostle Paul taught that there's "diversities of operations" by The Holy Spirit; not everyone is given the same spiritual gifts by The Holy Spirit.
And Paul said that no man can say that Jesus is LORD but by The Holy Spirit!
But those under the false gibberish tongue instead say if you don't speak their gibberish, and don't fall down in the floor and make animal noises, hoop and holler, then you don't have The Holy Spirit???
1 Cor 12:3-11
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God Which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
KJV
Notice especially in verse 10, that phrase "to another divers kinds of tongues". That is NOT about the cloven tongue of Pentecost which manifested to the various people in their 'own' dialects of their languages of birth (Acts 2). That gift by The Holy Spirit in verse 10 is about how some folks literally... have a gift for speaking many different languages of the world.
The cloven tongue of Pentecost manifests as known languages of the world, but itself is NOT a language. It is The Holy Spirit at work causing everyone present to hear and understand in their own language of their birth.
I know what your talking about... pretty much said the same in my post.... Forget tongues or speaking any language....
What does this verse mean?
Act 1:5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." ....
8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."
What Power???
Davy
Well-Known Member
The power of The Holy Spirit to do God's Work here on earth. He manifested strongly among the disciples in that time, and He still does today in foreign nations that have never heard of The Gospel of Jesus Christ. He doesn't just work in 'miracles' only though, and that is where many are confused.
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