Proof of God
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""When you're dead, you're dead.""
Can you PROVE your self-aware consciousness does NOT continue after death ?
Wrangler
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Wrangler
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“The Bible ends with a new heaven and a new earth, God dwelling with His people, death gone, tears gone, curse gone.
That is the world my heart aches for!”
Pastor Rich Bitterman (@w_bitterman) on X
The Bible ends with a new heaven and a new earth, God dwelling with His people, death gone, tears gone, curse gone. That is the world my heart aches for!!
Mine too. My spirit is grieved that yours doesn’t.
Do you think everyone else isn’t “lying for Jesus”? That they are “telling the truth for Jesus”?
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I thought I'd offer my two cents. There is such a thing as divine justice and recompense in the Christian worldview. Only universalists believe everyone eventually goes to heaven, but that is a minority view. Traditional Christians such as myself believe in the idea that we will be held accountable for our deeds done in this life, and they carry eternal consequences. It is true that God's grace and forgiveness can cover even the most egregious acts. But for that to happen, there has to be true repentance from the heart. It may seem unfair that they get a free pass, as it were, though it's not really free. It was bought and paid for by Christ. It's also a fortunate that grace and forgiveness can cover those things; otherwise, none of us would make it.
In God's eyes, sin is sin. We may distinguish between minor and major sins, but it all separates us from Him. God is completely holy. Not even a little sin can stand to be in the presence of a holy God. It would be like trying to mix water and oil. So, when God forgives, it has to wash away those sins like they never happened. Then they are no longer murderers, rapists, pedophiles, or whatever; they are new creatures in Christ (that goes for everyone who accepts the gift of salvation). That is not an approval of their sins but a testament to God's grace and forgiveness, which is sufficient to cover even the most heinous sins. If it weren't, then there would be no hope for any of us. Nor would there be any point in trying to change and be a better human if there was no path to redemption.
As an aside, none of us really have any moral high ground to stand upon. Most people today, Christian or not, would probably agree those things are terrible, but clearly not everyone, such as those doing them. They weren't always viewed as morally wrong either. The ancient Greeks, for example, were notorious boy lovers (pederasty), and the Aztecs routinely sacrificed people by cutting out their still-beating hearts (murder). Neither of them thought what they were doing was morally wrong; they never even considered it. So, if morality is based solely on our human perspective or cultural norms, then it can only ever be subjective. That means what might be wrong for you can be right for someone else, and vice versa. There can only be objective morality if there is a supreme being (i.e., God). And if there is, He's the only one who can judge perfectly. We're in no position to decide who should go to heaven, and who should not.
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The vid below is a long and highly technical analysis. Our Atheist friends claim they follow the scientific evidence. Well, here it is.
Do you remember graphing on the x and y-axis? The Mandelbrot Set can be graphed. It looks like the special shape of 2 circles, where one goes around the other. If you notice, there are smaller circles, each with yellow roots. When one zooms in, the same circle orbiting another circle appears. This process can be repeated to infinity. What does this tell us?
It tells us that our secular, evolutionist friends have no explanation for the evidence before our eyes. They have no explanation because the only explanation is the existence and properties of numbers prove that Godexists and his mind is infinite and beautiful.
A secular, evolutionary mathematician and Atheist, Dr. Eugene Wigner addressed this in his article The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences. His conclusion:
Let me repeat that. The Atheist scientist cannot deny the miracle which are numbers and their application! In fact, 2 miracles emerge in the study of numbers and their properties:
The secular, humanist camp cannot make sense of these observations. They cannot account for the existence and properties of numbers or mathematical truths.
- The physical universe obeys mathematical laws.
- Human beings can discover those laws.
The existence of mathematics (which is the concept of quantity) proves God exists because concepts require a mind and numbers existed before man existed. Things like the Mandelbrot set are not a human invention but a human discovery. We discovered this infinite set when computers were used to solve a simple equation over a very large number range and graphed the results.
Questions Secular Evolutionist Atheists Cannot Answer
The secular world cannot apply their idol, evolution, to the observation because they know numbers are a concept and did not evolve. (Our understanding of numbers changed over time. But that is not evolution of numbers).
- Did law of math evolve?
The secular world cannot explain why there are so many swirls in math and nature, such as the The Mandelbrot Set, higher power variations of the set, rose buds and even galaxies.
- Why do fractals occur both in math and the physical universe? Fractals are a repeating design that continues to infinity. Examples include lightening, snow flakes, ferns and cystal formation.
We Christians know the answer. Math is a reflection of God's thoughts. The universe is upheld by the mind of God. Hebrews 1:3. Colossians 1:17.
- Why does the physical world obey mathematical laws?
Buddhabrot - Wikipedia
The vid below is a long and highly technical analysis. Our Atheist friends claim they follow the scientific evidence. Well, here it is.
Do you remember graphing on the x and y-axis? The Mandelbrot Set can be graphed. It looks like the special shape of 2 circles, where one goes around the other. If you notice, there are smaller circles, each with yellow roots. When one zooms in, the same circle orbiting another circle appears. This process can be repeated to infinity. What does this tell us?
It tells us that our secular, evolutionist friends have no explanation for the evidence before our eyes. They have no explanation because the only explanation is the existence and properties of numbers prove that Godexists and his mind is infinite and beautiful.
A secular, evolutionary mathematician and Atheist, Dr. Eugene Wigner addressed this in his article The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences. His conclusion:
Let me repeat that. The Atheist scientist cannot deny the miracle which are numbers and their application! In fact, 2 miracles emerge in the study of numbers and their properties:
The secular, humanist camp cannot make sense of these observations. They cannot account for the existence and properties of numbers or mathematical truths.
- The physical universe obeys mathematical laws.
- Human beings can discover those laws.
The existence of mathematics (which is the concept of quantity) proves God exists because concepts require a mind and numbers existed before man existed. Things like the Mandelbrot set are not a human invention but a human discovery. We discovered this infinite set when computers were used to solve a simple equation over a very large number range and graphed the results.
Questions Secular Evolutionist Atheists Cannot Answer
The secular world cannot apply their idol, evolution, to the observation because they know numbers are a concept and did not evolve. (Our understanding of numbers changed over time. But that is not evolution of numbers).
- Did law of math evolve?
The secular world cannot explain why there are so many swirls in math and nature, such as the The Mandelbrot Set, higher power variations of the set, rose buds and even galaxies.
- Why do fractals occur both in math and the physical universe? Fractals are a repeating design that continues to infinity. Examples include lightening, snow flakes, ferns and cystal formation.
We Christians know the answer. Math is a reflection of God's thoughts. The universe is upheld by the mind of God. Hebrews 1:3. Colossians 1:17.
- Why does the physical world obey mathematical laws?
Buddhabrot - Wikipedia
Atheists want evidence, or so they say.
But the best evidence for God, has and always will be the changed lives of those who have come to know Him personally.
My life is one of those lives, no further evidence required.
I've never been much of an apologist, but I do have an amazing testimony.
But the best evidence for God, has and always will be the changed lives of those who have come to know Him personally.
My life is one of those lives, no further evidence required.
I've never been much of an apologist, but I do have an amazing testimony.
The video wasn't convincing to me. Things in the abstract world of mathematics that look similar to things in the physical universe are in no way evidence of the Christian God.
Maybe if the things in the abstract looked like Jesus on the cross, I'd give it more thought.
Buddhabrot resembles Buddha, does this make you think that Buddha created the laws of mathematics?
Maybe if the things in the abstract looked like Jesus on the cross, I'd give it more thought.
Buddhabrot resembles Buddha, does this make you think that Buddha created the laws of mathematics?
Wrangler
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Wrangler
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I'm not dismissing the conclusion, I can see that the laws of mathematics are not man made... I just don't see the connection to the Christian God.
quietthinker
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