The Deity of Christ has a bearing on one's salvation...as believing in it is essential for salvation...John 8:24 and accompanying verses.
Proof of the Trinity. No takers?
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101G
Well-Known Member
No, the oneness doctrine is false also, I'm a "Diversified ONENESS" believer just as the bible, the Lord JESUS, and his apostles, and disciples of the Church teach.
I believe in the Oneness doctrine...to a point. I depart from it when I come to verses in the Bible that say that Jesus came out from the Father (John 16:27-28) and that the Spirit of truth proceeds from the Father (John 15:26)...nevertheless this cannot contradict the fact that there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4) and that the Father is that Spirit (John 4:23-24), the Holy Ghost (or, the Spirit of truth) is that Spirit (John 7:39).
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101G
Well-Known Member
Let's get this "proceeded from the Father", or "come out from God", a complete understanding, no argument, only discussion.
John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
now,
John 16:28 "I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
What do proceeded mean? "begin or continue a course of action" .
BEGAN? CONTUINE?
let's LOOK at "BEGAN" first, the Lord JESUS
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Many think this "begining" is from Genesis 1:1, ERROR.
Let's get the correct begining,
1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1 John 1:2 "(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
1 John 1:3 "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1 John 1:4 "And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
this begining is in Flesh and blood, (Son). for John was not in Genesis 1:1 and HANDLED a Spirit... (smile), nor seem a Spirit in Genesis 1:1 because he was not there in Genesis 1:1.
understand, clearly,
Mark 1:1 "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Mark 1:2 "As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee".
who is the "I" that sent his messenger, (John the Baptist, the Elijah to come?), before him? answer,
Isaiah 40:3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God".
the LORD here, all caps, is the FATHER, Spirit, the Holy Spirit. but will be shared in flesh as a man, so he, the LORD, as the ANOTHER, in Flesh is the "Son", as G 243 Allos states.
this is too easy to understand.
while he's on Earth shared in flesh he's also Spirit everwhere, just "Shared" in flesh, the SAME person.
while on earth in a body as a man he G2758 κενόω kenoo himself, meaning he's the Intrinsic Spatial in flesh on earth. look up "Intrinsic", and "Spatial" to know what I mean.
Now the Spirit "continue a course of action", from the definition of proceeded.
answer, "ANOTHER", supportive Scripture,
John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you".
"I will COME to you?", cam anyone get any plainer?.
yes, the "ANOTHER" of himself, the Spirit, without flesh. this is too easy.
how many way can we explain this?.
That Jesus came to save mankind and believe in Him, never asked us to declare He is God.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Doesnt say God saved us through God, again as it says
Joh_10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
now if he was God HE would of said "my Hand".
God is not the author of confusion that is man and the devils doing.
Actually He put His word.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
doesnt say God became flesh....
But pointless arguing this will keep going ...
Compare to John 8:58 in light of John 8:59 and John 10:31-33 and Exodus 3:14. The Pharisees knew that Jesus was claiming to be God (the great I AM) and wanted to stone Him for it. And John 8:24 makes the doctrine an essential for salvation.
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Right...and the devil loves to take things out of context.
All I need to do with you in answer to your notion is to say, read the context.
Jesus did say, "my hand" (v.28).
And, "I and my Father are one." (v.30).
The implication in the passage is that Jesus' hand and the Father's hand are the same hand.
They are one Person, just as myself and @101G have been testifying.
And that is an issue to you,? what is the problem, that Christ has the same authority as God, dont you know there is a day coming when Gods sons will be raised up and they too will have that very same authority yet they will not be God but equal share in His inheritance. The trouble you have is that if Jesus is not God than your whole faith falls flat on its face, the religious didnt hate Jesus because HE said HE was God but because He made the claim He was equal to God, Gods word is always a part of God, is wasnt God that was put to death on that cross it was His word, even Christ had to give up the Ghost because His Spirit could not die, and even for those few moments God could not look upon His very own son and the light went and darkness came for that short time, it was not God that taught the fallen in prison it was Christ His word, than His word, Christ returned to him after completing all He was sent to do as His word never returns void. Why is it so hard to understand???
Yes, but according to scripture, the eternal one consists of three persons called Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Co-eternally existing as one Spirit - God. To reject this is to worship an idol.
Just keep in mind, if you get it wrong, you worship an idol of your own making.
God did not give you your understanding. Or you would agree with scripture. Get it wrong on the trinity, you have a man-made idol (or worse) that you worship in place of God.
101G
Well-Known Member
GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply.
NO, but the bible do said God was "MADE" flesh. I only go with what the bible says.
What do "made" here means in the verse?
G1096 γίνομαι ginomai (ǰiy'-no-mai) v.
1. to cause to be (“gen”-erate).
2. (reflexively) to become (come into being).
3. (of events) to happen.
{used with great latitude (literal, figurative, intensive, etc.):}
[a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb]
KJV: arise, be assembled, be(-come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought
definition #1 is the FLESH being GENERATED, or other words, 9 months in the bread basket.
definition #2 is the continuing of the spirit that now is found to dwell in it, meaning the spirit that's in that body of flesh is a continuing spirit which means it has no beigning, and it has no end. supportive scriptures,
Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man". one more,
Psalms 8:5 "For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
now that we know that a BODY of flesh was "MADE" for God to come in, was he a MAN? lets see.
"be found?" as a man, let's check the record.
Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
the scriptures states "in Fashion "as" a man. "as" here with only one "s" ... (smile) is an adverb, this is important, because "as" state he is a man, but a LIVING man WITH BLOOD, meaning NATURAL LIFE, and not a dead man like us, who live by blood only, (meaning a natural temporal existance). this is important to know, because the First MAN Adam was a LIVING MAN/Soul, without SIN, and he was given BLOOD. so did the First Adam have two NATURES? NO. (I'll Stop there because that's another whole subject matter in itself, especially if those who know that the first man was formed on day 3 without blood). but a man, yes, a man with continued LIFE, with blood. well that just shot the false doctrine of hypostatic union out of the water.
Jesus was MADE flesh, meaning that he is a man, as the scriptures states,
1 Corinthians 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
This scripture just told us that Christ is a man by the use of the term "ADAM". Adam in the Hebrew mans "ANOTHER"
H120 אָדָם 'adam (aw-dawm') n-m.
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.).
[from H119]
KJV: X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
Root(s): H119
so, by taking on flesh with blood, which he "TOOK PART" in and was not a "PARTAKER" of it, this meand as a man with NATURAL LIFE/BLOOD, he, as God is now capable of dying ..... a NATURAL death, meaning a loss of BLOOD. which the blood is the LIFE of the Flesh, supportive scripture,
Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Leviticus 17:14 "For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.
with this NATURAL LIFE as, as, as, a man he as the Greeks states, he G2758 κενόω kenoo himself in this flesh with blood so that he could suffer and and overcome death in it, (the flesh). supportive scripture,
Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. hence his victory over DEATH, which is unnatural for man.
let me say this in closing, there has only been TWO Adam's on this planet, the first one and the Last one. all was, was in the the first one, or all, all, all are in the Last one.
Hoped this helped.
101G
Well-Known Member
Since we mention it, (hypostatic union), in post #546 above, might as well put it out for examination.
stright to the point without any indepth explination.
Man/Adam was Formed on God day #3. and was made into Male and Female on God day #6.
Genesis 2:21 "And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof". (notice the man was already here "alone" by himself, per vers 18).
Genesis 2:22 "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Genesis 2:23 "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man".
what's missing? ......... "Blood", where is "Blood of my blood?"
he didn't have any blood to give her. but do this contradict Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul".
so where is the statement from Adam, "blood of my blood?". sin was not in the world yet.
let's get a peek,
Luke 24:36 "And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luke 24:37 "But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luke 24:38 "And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
what's missing here? "BLOOD", just like with the first Adam.
stright to the point without any indepth explination.
Man/Adam was Formed on God day #3. and was made into Male and Female on God day #6.
Genesis 2:21 "And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof". (notice the man was already here "alone" by himself, per vers 18).
Genesis 2:22 "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Genesis 2:23 "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man".
what's missing? ......... "Blood", where is "Blood of my blood?"
he didn't have any blood to give her. but do this contradict Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul".
so where is the statement from Adam, "blood of my blood?". sin was not in the world yet.
let's get a peek,
Luke 24:36 "And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luke 24:37 "But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luke 24:38 "And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
what's missing here? "BLOOD", just like with the first Adam.
You do not understand scripture where it teaches the trinity doctrine. This is dangerous because people construct idols and give them Jesus' name.
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